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> Guitar Terms I Don Know, What are they?
Bitey
post May 9 2007, 06:06 PM
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Ghost note.

--------------(9)------------------

I have no idea what that means can any one explain it?

Octave what does that mean?

8va 15ma?


What is an Acciaccatura?

appoggiature?

Fermenta?

Staccato?

If anyone could tell me what those mean that would be great. smile.gif
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Rvddps
post May 9 2007, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Bitey @ May 9 2007, 06:06 PM) *
Ghost note.

--------------(9)------------------

I have no idea what that means can any one explain it?

Octave what does that mean?

8va 15ma?
What is an Acciaccatura?

appoggiature?

Fermenta?

Staccato?

If anyone could tell me what those mean that would be great. smile.gif


ill try to do my bit...

Octave is playing the same note exactly one octave above, for instance, if you play your E string and then play your 12th fret, the frets 1-12 is a full octave, since the western musical setup is 12 notes.

staccato is playing notes very sharply, not letting then flow, its the opposite of legato. If you play a not but dont let it ring, just play it sharp and cut the sound off, thats staccato.

those are the ones off the top of my head
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Bitey
post May 9 2007, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (Rvddps @ May 9 2007, 12:37 PM) *
ill try to do my bit...

Octave is playing the same note exactly one octave above, for instance, if you play your E string and then play your 12th fret, the frets 1-12 is a full octave, since the western musical setup is 12 notes.

staccato is playing notes very sharply, not letting then flow, its the opposite of legato. If you play a not but dont let it ring, just play it sharp and cut the sound off, thats staccato.

those are the ones off the top of my head



Thanks so like playing this on a tab is doing an octave


---0-----12----

Is that what it is? and like going from 1 to 13 and then 2 to 14 etc?
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Kaneda
post May 9 2007, 07:37 PM
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This will be long for a first post wink.gif

"Ghost note" is a rather vague term that guitarists use to describe one of two things:
1. A non-accented (very) softly played note (usually among other, more accented notes)
2. Various types of harmonics, or, more commonly, muted "scratches"

They tend to be written in tabs with parentheses around the sounding note - but note that parentheses are also used sometimes to indicate that this part is not played every time the riff appears (such as, it's played in the first verse, not in the second, then again in the third).

An octave is the interval (distance) of 12 semitones (which corresponds to 12 frets). Historically, it's called an octave (octo = eight) because this difference also corresponds to 8 notes in the "standard" scales/modes, such as the major (dorian) scale, the minor scales (but note: not the pentatonic scale wink.gif)

8va ("ottava") written above note lines means that you should play it an octave higher than it's written. If it's written below the note line, you play the notes an octave lower than written.

15ma ("quindicesima") means play two octaves above. 15 rather than 16, because when we've reached an octave (8 notes), there's only 7 notes left until the next octave (because we don't count the 8th note twice).

Acciaccaturas and appoggiaturas (also known as "grace notes") are "ornaments" - i.e., they tend to be not regarded as part of the melody, but rather "decorations" of it.

Appoggiaturas are such ornaments - they're written (in musical notation) as small versions of the note you're supposed to play, and usually bound with a grace to the note following them (look below for pics). They should last as long as the note they're written as, taking the time from the following note, i.e., they're played on the beat of the following note. So, if you had a quarter note appoggiatura followed by a half note, you'd play the appoggiatura as a quarter note, followed by the actual half note - except there would only be a quarter note's time left, so that's how long the half note would last when you play it... Essentially, you could write such a melody with "standard" notes - the appoggiatura just signifies that melodically, this note is less significant than the following and in theory just suspends the following note.

It's very hard to explain, as Yngwie would say wink.gif

Lots of baroque music ends with a figure like this:

4/4: - C2 | F2 E2 | [E2] F1

(4 = quarter note, 1 = whole note)

... played like:

4/4: - C2 | F2 E2 | E2 F2

The [E4] might be an appoggiatura, and in this case it signifies that melodically it's really there to suspend the following F1, it's not "really" a part of the melody, which might as well sound like:

4/4: - C2 | F2 E2 | F1

(sorry for the non-standard notation, I'm not so used to tabs smile.gif)

Example of how they look in musical notation here (the small sixteenth notes in the first line):
http://www.freehandmusic.com/preview/750x4...Y/SHBWV988I.png

If you look in the very last bar, the last 5 notes are actually the figure I described above (although in a different key, and with shorter notes).

Acciaccaturas are similar, but shorter and much less significant. They're written somewhat like appoggiaturas - still smaller than other notes, and still with the grace line to the following note - except they're mostly written as eigth notes (with the "flag" on the stem) which are "crossed out" with a line. Theoretically, they last "no time", they're very short notes played right before the following note, sometimes on the beat of the following note (and taking their share of duration from it), sometimes before it (taking their share of duration from the previous note). Depends on playing style etc.

EDIT to give an example: The first two notes of the solo in Comfortably Numb (although muted) could be written as acciaccaturas - very short notes, which aren't really part of the solo melody, but just lead up to it.

http://www.guitarpeople.com/classical/standardnotation9.gif

The first note in that image is an acciaccatura.

A fermata (I think you mean) is a half circle with a dot inside written above and/or below a note line to indicate that the note should be held longer than it's written (and longer than there's "room" for in the bar). It's often found at the end of a piece of music. How long to hold it is usually up to you, but when in doubt, twice as long is the standard wink.gif That's how it's used these days, at least. In "the old days" it was just a sign that a musical phrase had ended, and it was time for the singer/wind player to breathe (or the guitar player to relax his fingers for a bit) smile.gif

Staccato, Rvddps already explained quite succinctly smile.gif

Phew. Hope this helps smile.gif

EDIT: And yes, if you play ---0-----12----, that would be a jump of an octave, and 1 - 13, 2 - 14, 3 - 15. And, of course:

D --------------------------2-----
A ----7---------8-----------------
E --0---------1----------0--------

All three are octaves.

This post has been edited by Kaneda: May 9 2007, 08:46 PM
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wheeler
post May 9 2007, 08:46 PM
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20 years of classical piano + that post = Kaneda (hopefully) posting extensively on the theory board.

Great post, it's good to see people putting that much effort into helping someone out with their question. smile.gif
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Kaneda
post May 9 2007, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE (wheeler @ May 9 2007, 09:46 PM) *
20 years of classical piano + that post = Kaneda (hopefully) posting extensively on the theory board.

Great post, it's good to see people putting that much effort into helping someone out with their question. smile.gif


Thanks smile.gif Just hope it was helpful and at least somewhat intelligible - since I tend to forget that not all musicians are brought up with boring music theory.

I'm still surprised at the amount of (seasoned) guitarists I know or have met, who don't really know what notes make up an Em7 chord, but just know how to finger it - and yet, of course, can still be immensely talented and skilled musicians - more so than many a music theory nut. I don't know any pianists or violinist who can think that way.

And the terms in this thread are so much more theoretical than chords and scales, since most of them really deal mainly with music notation conventions - I know it took some time before I understood the point of appoggiaturas - "why not just write it as it sounds, dammit?".

Of course, I prefer to forget all the theory when performing or composing anything - especially rock. I don't want to play like Malmsteen - all due respect, it's just not what I want from rock. I'm still guided by the theory now that I'm learning guitar - I can't think of chords and scales as just finger positions. smile.gif But I don't think "oooh, this is where we go from 7/8 to 4/4 and modulate from C# major to E minor" when jumping around like crazy on a stage. That way of thinking was a lot harder to get away from when playing classical music. Which is probably why I mostly enjoy the band - and singing (and soon guitaring! wink.gif) - much much more.
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Andrew Cockburn
post May 10 2007, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE (wheeler @ May 9 2007, 03:46 PM) *
20 years of classical piano + that post = Kaneda (hopefully) posting extensively on the theory board.

Great post, it's good to see people putting that much effort into helping someone out with their question. smile.gif


Yes indeed smile.gif - Its great to see the theory side of things coming alive, looking forward to more posts from you Kaneda!


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Bitey
post May 13 2007, 08:04 PM
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Thanks I really didn't understand that because I don't know how to read music. sad.gif But I suppose I should learn how to. As for scales and what not I am not too familiar with them except the one scale that Andrew did in caged I made a riff off of that and it sounded a lot better then when I just normally jam around. I have guitar pro 5 so it shows me the scales and I try to remember the general shape of it. Thank you for helping and is there any good sites to learn how to read music?
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Kaneda
post May 14 2007, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE (Bitey @ May 13 2007, 09:04 PM) *
Thanks I really didn't understand that because I don't know how to read music. sad.gif But I suppose I should learn how to. As for scales and what not I am not too familiar with them except the one scale that Andrew did in caged I made a riff off of that and it sounded a lot better then when I just normally jam around. I have guitar pro 5 so it shows me the scales and I try to remember the general shape of it. Thank you for helping and is there any good sites to learn how to read music?


I've never stumbled on any that were really good - and written for guitarists. I was considering adding a lesson to the theory board on the basics (or rather, "everything you need") of musical notation, but I know Andrew is thinking of doing such a lesson already - which I'm sure will be as accurate and understandable as all his stuff (which is to say, totally accurate and very understandable smile.gif)

As for the explanation above, without musical notation talk, it boils down to:

8va, 15ma: You'll never meet them in tabs smile.gif
Acciaccaturas and Appogiaturas: I doubt you'll ever meet them in tabs smile.gif
Fermata: You'll probably never meet them in tabs smile.gif
Octave and staccato: You already understand those smile.gif

The first three are really only applicable to standard music notation (which is why I took music reading for granted, sorry smile.gif). 8va and 15ma deals with the issue that the note lines in music notation weren't really created with very high or low notes in mind, making such notes harder to read/write without such a "trick". Acciaccaturas, appoggiaturas and fermatas deal with rhythm/note duration, which tab doesn't include at all (one reason for learning standard music notation).

This post has been edited by Kaneda: May 14 2007, 07:21 AM
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Andrew Cockburn
post May 14 2007, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (Kaneda @ May 14 2007, 02:21 AM) *
I've never stumbled on any that were really good - and written for guitarists. I was considering adding a lesson to the theory board on the basics (or rather, "everything you need") of musical notation, but I know Andrew is thinking of doing such a lesson already - which I'm sure will be as accurate and understandable as all his stuff (which is to say, totally accurate and very understandable smile.gif)


Thanks Kaneda, and yes, due to a couple of other queries, I will be doing a lesson on music notation next, stay tuned and look for it in the next few days!


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Bitey
post May 15 2007, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ May 14 2007, 07:45 AM) *
Thanks Kaneda, and yes, due to a couple of other queries, I will be doing a lesson on music notation next, stay tuned and look for it in the next few days!



Okay thank you very much. biggrin.gif

I have been getting better over all in this I have been writing music based on scales and it sounds a lot better now then it ever did. my favorite has to be the C major C# major. biggrin.gif
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