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> Youtube Guitaring, Bad Horsie, a cover and the real thing
Scott Gentzen
post May 10 2007, 03:14 PM
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I think one of the coolest things about Youtube from the perspective of someone who's interested in guitar is the tons of videos out there of people just showing what they can do. Everyone's seen the Canon in D "Guitar" video, and that cool acoustic "Drift" video out there. I came across a fantastic video last night of someone doing Bad Horsie that I had to share. He has a bunch of other videos of him doing other Vai tunes too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WWvGDYAOmk

I think it's really cool that there's a relatively easy to show the world what you have nowadays.

Not long after I saw the above video, I saw the following performance of Bad Horsie by Vai himself. Looks like it's from the same concert that someone posted recently of Whispering a Prayer. There are a lot of "holy sh*t!!" moments in that one for me. Is that concert video from a DVD that can be bought? I'd like to check it out with a lot clearer picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQF1t2RdINU


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The Uncreator
post May 11 2007, 03:09 AM
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Yeah, i posted the Whispering A Prayer video, its from Steve Vai's Live At The Astoria, great DVD, You should get it biggrin.gif
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Pavel
post May 11 2007, 08:44 AM
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Well YouTube is great but there is also a huge amount of morrons pretending to play but they actually can't play 5 clean notes. 99% of them play someone's song - what's the point of it? YouTube is great if you want to share your own compositions to get comments (which are always stupid).

So i removed 2 of 3 of my videos - left only 1 of them on YouTube and the next time i upload something there will be my own compositions ONLY.


There are 5000 videos of Canon D which totally suck - so what's the point of recording a video and not being able to play the song? - that sure has nothing to do with showing skillz.

There are also millions of guys trying to play Vai's songs - but as soon as they get to the solo part they screw up - so what's the point of recording it?


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fkalich
post May 11 2007, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ May 11 2007, 02:44 AM) *
Well YouTube is great but there is also a huge amount of morrons pretending to play but they actually can't play

Pavel, very important, when calling someone a moron, to spell it correctly smile.gif

QUOTE (Pavel @ May 11 2007, 02:44 AM) *
5 clean notes. 99% of them play someone's song - what's the point of it? YouTube is great if you want to share your own compositions to get comments (which are always stupid).

So i removed 2 of 3 of my videos - left only 1 of them on YouTube and the next time i upload something there will be my own compositions ONLY.
There are 5000 videos of Canon D which totally suck - so what's the point of recording a video and not being able to play the song? - that sure has nothing to do with showing skillz.

There are also millions of guys trying to play Vai's songs - but as soon as they get to the solo part they screw up - so what's the point of recording it?


That being said, I agree with you for the most part. I do think that family members, and friends might like to see some really fine guitar playing by a family member/friend. At least my family is like that, and the friends I have are like that. But to just post things for the general public.....

1) If you really have a great composition, or a technique that is innovative, why in the world would you want to show it to the public, unless you make money doing so? The history of man is a history of people taking credit for other people's ideas. Standard practice in the corporate world.

2) If it is not a good composition, just some mediocre thing (as nearly all are), or just a technique that 50,000 other guys are doing, why show that, just to show you can come up with something that has been done ad nauseum, or that is mediocre at best?

3) Now I disagree with you on the subject of "showing something someone else has played". That is the only thing I would do, because it would not be showing things that I consider innovative (see #1 above). And only if I considered it perfect. No backing tracks to cover up slop playing (as nearly all the Canon Rock renditions have). This would only be for my family and friends, who I know would like to something like that. People live in different parts of the country, and I don't see some of them very often.

This post has been edited by fkalich: May 11 2007, 09:50 AM
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Scott Gentzen
post May 11 2007, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ May 11 2007, 02:09 AM) *
Yeah, i posted the Whispering A Prayer video, its from Steve Vai's Live At The Astoria, great DVD, You should get it biggrin.gif


It's on my Amazon wish list now. biggrin.gif

I have another run to do in another couple weeks, so it should be here soon.


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Scott Gentzen
post May 11 2007, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ May 11 2007, 07:44 AM) *
There are also millions of guys trying to play Vai's songs - but as soon as they get to the solo part they screw up - so what's the point of recording it?


That mean the one I posted isn't as good as I think it is?

There's a lot of junk out there, but I enjoy watching someone good whether they're poaying their own music or not. I'm a bit of a visual learner, and while the video quality isn't the best, sometimes I'll pick up on some stuff while I'm watching. I'm not at the point where I'm able to play my own music on guitar so I'm kinda stuck playing other people's stuff and when I get stuck figuring something out in a tab, I go to video.

I don't really get why people post the messy ones either. My favorites are the obsessive/compulsive ones.

There's a bunch of videos out there from a guy that meticulously explains and plays through a bunch of ACDC tunes. He plays an Angus signature SG through Marshall, and goes into details like when Angus goes off the beat in a song on the recording, how sometimes Angus fingers something differently than you would expect, and points out the differences in the album version vs the Live album version of songs.

Personally, I could see me putting up something that sucks for a very specific reason. Something like if I'm having a specific problem, I video what I'm doing and post something here to ask people to look at it. \


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ch00ch00man
post May 11 2007, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ May 11 2007, 03:44 AM) *
Well YouTube is great but there is also a huge amount of morrons pretending to play but they actually can't play 5 clean notes. 99% of them play someone's song - what's the point of it? YouTube is great if you want to share your own compositions to get comments (which are always stupid).

So i removed 2 of 3 of my videos - left only 1 of them on YouTube and the next time i upload something there will be my own compositions ONLY.
There are 5000 videos of Canon D which totally suck - so what's the point of recording a video and not being able to play the song? - that sure has nothing to do with showing skillz.

There are also millions of guys trying to play Vai's songs - but as soon as they get to the solo part they screw up - so what's the point of recording it?


While I'm positive that I'll be flamed in to the ground for this, what the hell. In the interest of openness and free speech; Pavel you are an elitist snob. Can you be any more negative? I don't know the reasons you play the guitar, but for me its all about having fun. I don't plan on ever making a nickel (apply your exchange rate here) playing the instrument. And as was mentioned previously, I too am a visual learner (don't have an ear to speak off). For me, YouTube is an absolute god send. How many times I would watch a band perform, just to get to the solo part, and have the camera be trained on the bassist, or drummer, or anything but the lead guitarist. I often wonder whether thats done on purpose, so that we, mere mortals can't see, and copy their technique. And while I would agree that there is a lot of garbage out there, theres also a ton of really cool stuff too (as far as I'm concerned). In my wildest dreams, I would never have progressed as much as I have in the past two months without resources like YouTube, GuitarPro, and yes GMC. Being able to SEE peoples technique is everything to me (otherwise why post video lessons on GMC?).

I guess my point is, somewhere along the line you got so good, that you forgot what it means to learn. I don't deny your skills (as a mater of fact I imitate them). I think your technique is superb, and I love learning by watching you play. But your attitude stinks, especially for a teacher. Many a times I came across one of your posts, and would have the same feeling. I don't know whether its your age, or general attitude, but diplomacy is definitely not one of your strongest traits.

Putting on my asbestos lined suit now... Fire at will... biggrin.gif

Boris
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Iluha
post May 11 2007, 11:11 PM
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I agree with Pavel on one thing, there are ALOT of people on youtube posting crappy videos of them playing the guitar... but is that a crime?...... It's not like their making any cash through it tongue.gif
Youtube, in my eyes, is a great tool for aspiring musicians, directors, actors, artists, etc. to get exposed to an international audience.


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Pavel
post May 11 2007, 11:27 PM
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I didn't say YouTube is a bad thing! I love to go there and watch videos of my favorite bands and great guitar players - it really is a great inspiration but lots of times i find videos which are total garbage (you said that word smile.gif )

Btw. i don't think i am good and that's where our approaches are different - each one of us has different understanding of good skills and bad skills.

Let's not turn this into a fight! In the end each one of us has his own opinion!


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The Uncreator
post May 12 2007, 01:16 AM
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There are alot of people who post videos of themselves playing like vais songs and just want oppinions on there technique, and some of them can ABSOLUTELY Nail some of that stuff, so its ok with me, i just rather watch vai play "Juice" than someone else.

That being said, youtube is great for putting your own compositions out, its a way for free promo stuff, and there are some people on youtube who should have record contracts, cause there playing truly great stuff.

The worst thing about youtube though is the people who watch all the videos of bands they hate and complain about them (Dragonforce, Trivium are the 2 biggest) and personally if you post a comment like "i just dont like it, it doesnt suit my tastes" that cool ya know, but when you keep posting stuff like "Oh my god Matt Heafy cant play guitar he is no John Petrucci, John petrucci wrote (this and that) and Matt Didnt!!!"
That stuff is just wrong, i serioulsy think those people should just be hurt very badly.
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ch00ch00man
post May 12 2007, 03:38 AM
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The very last thing I want is a fight. That wont accomplish anything. I care about open and franc conversation. And I might add, I'm very pleasantly surprised to see people weigh in on the conversation without trying to rip me a new one. Just goes to show, learn something new everyday. Thanks guys.

But I'm curious, Pavel, you don't think your good. I thing you have amazing chops, and musicianship (your lessons are not only chock full of skills, but actually have musical value). In fact, I feel that if I ever get to your level, I would consider myself very accomplished. That said, what is it you think you lack? Why would you not think your good?

As for YouTube, again, being a visual creature, I find it a tremendous asset. I for one don't care about original compositions or covers. Either or will do for me. If a guy (or gal for that mater) shows me something that I wouldn't be able to pick up elsewhere, I'm great full.

Boris
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The Uncreator
post May 12 2007, 05:10 AM
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If Pavel thinks he isnt good, he is crazy.

Dont be Modest Pavel, you know your good biggrin.gif

I htink what im trying to say is, well ill use myself as an example, i know im not a god or virtuoso, or even close, but what i do know is that im good, not trying to brag, i know i cant come close to touchin' any of GMC's instructors, but i've worked to hard and long to say "im not good"

Hell, im proud of what ive accomplished and what i can do even if its not as good as some others, you should be to.

BTW Pavel, you have talent, you got skill, you got alot of potential (im not kidding when i say i really wanna hear an album from you), and your good damnit!

Deal With it! biggrin.gif
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fkalich
post May 12 2007, 05:37 AM
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QUOTE (ch00ch00man @ May 11 2007, 09:38 PM) *
The very last thing I want is a fight. That wont accomplish anything. I care about open and franc conversation.
Boris


Yeah, but you made personal comments. You should never do that. Actually, you should apologize to Pavel. Fortunately he stayed cool. Pavel called a group of people morons, but he did not actually identify any particular moron. He did not say "fkalich is a moron". He might have thunk it, but he did not say it. I have a brother who gets personal in any argument. I never discuss anything other than trivial matters with him because of that.

I am the first to say that there is waaaaaaaay to much "mutual admiration society" quality in this forum. people are not honest. somebody does anything and everyone says "great job". I can't be the only person on this forum that does not care for jazz, I live on planet earth, I know better. people should be thick skinned, and not take things personal. I am not saying jazz fans are bad people, or anything. Just admitting I don't care for jazz music, never have, and at this point in my life, I expect I never will. Nothing personal in that. But if you make a personal remark, you put the other person on the spot, it is up to him to keep his cool.

that being said, if you want to put stuff on you tube that adds nothing to quality of the culture of planet earth, in even the smallest way, whatever floats your boat.

This post has been edited by fkalich: May 12 2007, 06:04 AM
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ch00ch00man
post May 12 2007, 06:15 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ May 12 2007, 12:37 AM) *
Yeah, but you made personal comments. You should never do that. Actually, you should apologize to Pavel. Fortunately he stayed cool.

I am the first to say that there is waaaaaaaay to much "mutual admiration society" quality in this forum. people are not honest. somebody does anything and everyone says "great job". I can't be the only person on this forum that does not care for jazz, I live on planet earth, I know better. people should be thick skinned, and not take things personal. However, you should not call anyone a name, and make any statements that are personal. you should direct things at the objects we are talking about, not the person.

that being said, if you want to put stuff on you tube that adds nothing to quality of the culture of planet earth, in even the smallest way, whatever floats your boat.


Firstly, I did not make it personal, and I have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Theres a big difference between calling someone an asshole, and calling them an elitist snob. The former is a derogatory name which says nothing about the character of the person. The later is a specific label which, to most intelligent people, conveys a lot. I admire Pavel's skills, and tend to read most of his posts. The summation is a culmination of behaviors I have observed over time.

Second, I whole heartedly agree, there is way too much ass kissing for my tastes. I call am as I see am. If I see you do, or hear you say something I object to, I will open my mouth. Consequences be damned. I do not call people names, period. As far as not making things personal, while I still stand by my assertion that I did no such thing, whats wrong with making things personal? I mean, are we machines? Do we not care? Personal is good!

And last, as far as adding or subtracting to quality of culture, that is an entirely subjective statement. To each, his own. One man's garbage, is another mans gold...

Boris
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Pavel
post May 12 2007, 08:26 AM
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This is a great conversation!

@ Choochooman: In my opinion i am not good because i am inspired by guitarists like Rusty, Vai, Angelo, Turilli, Enric Garcia, Francesco Farreri - so i meassure skills by THEIR level of skills. Comparing to them - i suck totally - so it's my view and it won't change. I want to reach their level of skills and until then i won't be good. And you know what? - that helps me to keep practicing. I am never satisfied with what i have accomplished and i know it can be done better and that allows me to work even more and improve my skills. I have SOOO MUCH MORE things to practice and nail - it's pointless to count them here!

Maybe it's good - maybe it isn't - i find it good for my motivation!!

And i stayed cool because you are not the first person to tell me i am an "elitist snob" lol lol lol A close friend of mine told me that also and i don't care because he loves PUNK and that is the only music he listens and plays.

As i said - someone is satisfied and happy with intermediate skills but i want something more - and i am working on it! smile.gif

Keep the discussion going - it's awesome!


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 12 2007, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ May 12 2007, 06:37 AM) *
Yeah, but you made personal comments. You should never do that. Actually, you should apologize to Pavel. Fortunately he stayed cool. Pavel called a group of people morons, but he did not actually identify any particular moron. He did not say "fkalich is a moron". He might have thunk it, but he did not say it. I have a brother who gets personal in any argument. I never discuss anything other than trivial matters with him because of that.


I agree with this - all though Pavel's comment about Youtube in my opinion was very generalised - I think he did a great job in not replying with a personal insult to Ch00ch. Thanks Pavel smile.gif


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Pavel
post May 12 2007, 12:20 PM
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I didn't take it personal as i understand that each one of us has his own opinion. I don't have to agree that YouTube is a gift from the God as in my opinion it ISN'T! That's where we got this discussion going! But i also agreed that there are some great videos on YouTube!

Kris has a great GuitarTube lesson there: "..and you are prick!" laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Pavel: May 12 2007, 12:20 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 12 2007, 12:23 PM
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Andrew Cockburn
post May 12 2007, 01:51 PM
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Ya know, I think our instructors must really suck and we are being conned ...

Kris say "I've got no talent" ...

Pavel says "I don't think I'm good" and brands himself "intermediate" ...

I think I'll go find one of those guys on YouTube who thinks he is really good and ask him for lessons laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

P.S. I don't consider myself very knowledgable in theory either ...

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: May 12 2007, 01:51 PM


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