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> Solo Contruction, Advice on improv soloing
Narzsa
post Jul 27 2011, 01:35 PM
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Hi,

Im after a bit of advice on solo construction. I'm finding it difficult to write flowing solos that incorporate melodies and runs. Im usually able to discern the scale to use over the backing track and work out some melodies, but to then switch naturally into runs is proving difficult. I have learned from a number of lessons on here a number of techniques and can complete them at speed, but its the transitions im having difficulty with which prevent me from just jamming away and throwing in a run seamlessly

Do you have any advice on the matter at all? Or any lessons that would prove beneficial for me?
I manly focus on playing modes from the major scale, and my play style is inclined towards thrash metal, with backing tracks ranging from steady chord progression to fast aggressive rifts.

I really want to get to a point where i can just improvise a solo whilst jamming with my band


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Sinisa Cekic
post Jul 27 2011, 02:13 PM
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To cover the whole neck in any position, you should know pentatonic boxes ! They are indispensable because they are universal (blues,rock,metal,pop..), and no matter what the progression is - the position of the boxes are the same!
Check out Ivan's Lesson Series about it >>https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/pentatonic-workshop-level1-caged-format-timing-exercises/


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Ben Higgins
post Jul 27 2011, 02:35 PM
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Hi Narzsa.. this is a very valid point that you raise. I believe that I developed this by taking my favourite runs and experimenting with playing them over backing tracks. Also, I used to use other guitarists as an inspiration.. how did they put runs into a solo ? Where ? Half way through a bar ? At the beginning of a bar ?

A lot of it is about rhythm and phrasing, not technique. Joe Satriani inspired me a lot with the way he would combine melodies with fast runs up or down the neck. A run would usually lead from one strong phrase to another, like a bridge between notes.

Learning common shapes and runs is the best way to go. 3 note per string shapes are popular because they are so useful for navigating around the neck but you have to be careful otherwise they sound too much like an exercise. I did a series on legato that uses 3 note per string shapes and I use different timings. This lesson shows you how I put different licks together, combined with slower phrases https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Land-Of-Legato-5/

The Zakk Wylde pentatonic licks that usually cover 2 strings are also popular because they can be played in a fast 16th note way.. like 1,2,3,4 - 1,2,3,4.. https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Killer...kk-Wylde-Style/

The key is to understand how you can break down timing. If you're playing over a certain beat then there are different note values that you can use. You could use 16th notes, triplets etc...

These examples may be quite hard but it's just to show you the different ways of putting licks over a backing.. I made this one to demonstrate how to use different note lengths to good effect. https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Set-The-Pace/

So, the basic idea is learn some patterns & licks that you can use.. and then work out how you can vary the timing of these patterns. When you encounter a different backing, you'll know what you can get away with and what you can't. It takes time but the only way to do it is just do it !! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Jul 27 2011, 02:36 PM


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Narzsa
post Jul 27 2011, 03:53 PM
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Cheers guys smile.gif

And Ben, i ve been going through your land of legato. Very very useful, and has improved my speed and risen my legato from being quite weak to being useful smile.gif

Im currently thinking of working on starting runs from any place on the neck and moving them about more to get used to those locations, so no matter where i end on a melody i can be more ready to just jump in so to speak, do a run and then enter into another strong phrase as you mentioned

I ll definetly have a crack at those other lessons you have suggested smile.gif

Thank you for your advice


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 27 2011, 03:56 PM
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Do you know the 3 notes per string scale positions?


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Narzsa
post Jul 27 2011, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jul 27 2011, 03:56 PM) *
Do you know the 3 notes per string scale positions?


Hi Gab,

Yes, i know all them smile.gif but i will admit i could do with strengthening them.
Presently i do have to think about them, rather than instinctually know sometimes so thats a clear sign i think that i need some more practice moving about them smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 27 2011, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Narzsa @ Jul 27 2011, 12:21 PM) *
Hi Gab,

Yes, i know all them smile.gif but i will admit i could do with strengthening them.
Presently i do have to think about them, rather than instinctually know sometimes so thats a clear sign i think that i need some more practice moving about them smile.gif


Ah ok! this positions helped me a lot to add fast licks to my playing...

here I found some info about this scale (if you need to refresh it)

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=16647
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=16648


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Narzsa
post Jul 27 2011, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jul 27 2011, 04:27 PM) *
Ah ok! this positions helped me a lot to add fast licks to my playing...

here I found some info about this scale (if you need to refresh it)

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=16647
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=16648



Cheers Gab,

Every little helps and recognising where notes repeat/pasterns is definitely of use for me to go over


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 27 2011, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (Narzsa @ Jul 27 2011, 12:31 PM) *
Cheers Gab,

Every little helps and recognising where notes repeat/pasterns is definitely of use for me to go over


Have you learnt some solos in the style that you like? I think that learning solos and studying how the players combine phrasing with shredding will guide you a bit more with this... if you've already done it, let me know what solo/s you've learnt...


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Daniel Realpe
post Jul 27 2011, 04:56 PM
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In the above video there's an approach by Alexi Laiho from Children of Bodom. Usually a good idea is to play the backing track over and over and try out different things

I personally find useful to write a "normal" solo and then make variations on it so that it doesn't sound "normal"


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VilleFIN
post Jul 27 2011, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Jul 27 2011, 06:56 PM) *
I personally find useful to write a "normal" solo and then make variations on it so that it doesn't sound "normal"

Wow never have thought this. Thanks for sharing wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jul 27 2011, 11:13 PM
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I usually sing over the backing track smile.gif and if I hear something nice, I transpose it on the guitar. I try NOT to use the guitar when coming up with a solo, because I want to avoid cliches which would more than obviously occur, once i look at the neck and know that I already know something which would sound good over a certain chord. Try to listen to what goes on in your head mate smile.gif it's gonna make you play the most interesting things ever! wink.gif


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Narzsa
post Jul 28 2011, 08:38 AM
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Thanks for all the awesome advice guys smile.gif

Esepecially the alexi video. That was very awesome. Im a fan of bodom and it was very useful seeing how he would do a few melodies, add some licks and fixed repetitions then slide out and jump to start a run. That seems a very useful trick as aposed to trying to start a run in the middle of the next off the last note played, which is usually where i trip smile.gif

Also it was very good to see how he timed those


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jul 28 2011, 10:11 AM
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You can construct the solo with any knowledge that you have, pentatonic, diatonic scales, lick library etc.. It's just the matter of following the harmony properly, by choosing the strong notes (notes within chords or riffs). When you learn the patterns, you have to be able to learn the notes, and where they are on the neck.

For example, playing an A powerchord, or A-based riff can spawn various melodies around A and E notes, since those two notes are within the powerchord being played, so it would be good to start & end your phrases on those two notes. You could start with a lick that starts on A, do a repetitive motion on the simplified Am arpeggio, and do a 3nps run after that that ends on the E. That would be an example of a good harmonic followup of the lead part.


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Narzsa
post Jul 28 2011, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jul 28 2011, 10:11 AM) *
You can construct the solo with any knowledge that you have, pentatonic, diatonic scales, lick library etc.. It's just the matter of following the harmony properly, by choosing the strong notes (notes within chords or riffs). When you learn the patterns, you have to be able to learn the notes, and where they are on the neck.

For example, playing an A powerchord, or A-based riff can spawn various melodies around A and E notes, since those two notes are within the powerchord being played, so it would be good to start & end your phrases on those two notes. You could start with a lick that starts on A, do a repetitive motion on the simplified Am arpeggio, and do a 3nps run after that that ends on the E. That would be an example of a good harmonic followup of the lead part.



Cheer Ivan,

I currently need to write some lead for a new song for my band so i give that a short focusing on those core notes being used in the rift as i ve been having trouble coming up with something that grabs my attention


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jul 28 2011, 07:21 PM
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Try playing some arpeggios of the chords being played, that can often sound melodic and inspiring. You can also try to sing the solo as well, and try to transcribe the good parts of what you come up. Singing is more natural, and creates a vocal-like lead that is more memorable.


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