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> Do You Think We Are "alone", on this Earth? :)
Ivan Milenkovic
post Aug 3 2011, 10:07 AM
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Ok guys, we all did read about forms of "life" existing in outer space, because there are so many starts, galaxies, it would be nearly impossible that we are "alone" in the Universe.

however, do you feel that some other forms of life came and exist on Earth, except we aren't aware of them? smile.gif


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Chris Evans
post Aug 3 2011, 10:19 AM
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not sure, although I often think my wife comes from another planet laugh.gif ( I can say that here, she doesnt frequent the GMC forum, phew laugh.gif)


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Daniel Realpe
post Aug 3 2011, 10:25 AM
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I agree that it's nearly impossible that we're alone in this universe. If they are here or something, I really don't think so


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MickeM
post Aug 3 2011, 11:14 AM
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Yeah, I think Tony (in another thread) was even visited by a few that hadn't yet adapted how humans behave.


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Sinisa Cekic
post Aug 3 2011, 11:51 AM
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"The Truth Is Out There" smile.gif


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fkalich
post Aug 3 2011, 12:20 PM
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The difficultly lies in our having a sample of 1 event to draw conclusions from. Yes there are 200 billion galaxies, each on average with 200 billion stars in them. On the surface it would seem ludicrous for us to be the only event, "why would we be the only one?". But you get back to the sample of 1 that limits us from drawing any statistical conclusions.

That being said, the conditions conducive to the emergence of sentient life may be very rare, perhaps occurring only a few times in a galaxy. Having a large moon may be critical. Having a large outer planet like Jupiter certainly is. But it is highly probable that most solar systems are formed with small inner planets composed of heavier elements, and large outer gaseous ones.

Then again a species has to survive long enough to develop culture. Most of what we think of a unique to man is our culture, and that took 250 thousand years to develop (most in the past 5,000 years). Our species nearly became extinct at some point, perhaps down to just a few thousand of us. This is why humans are lacking much variation. People tend to think the races are very different, but in fact they are not, as animals go we are a very homogeneous species. If we compared our DNA pairs, Ivan and I would vary in about a million base pairs out of the 50 billion we have. If I compared my DNA to an African, we would also vary by only about 1 million base pairs.

To think we are the only ones here is silly, 40,000 trillion experiments are going to produce the conditions, and enough of them will have gotten past the obstacles. My guess is that there are 10,000 tool making species in each galaxy, meaning 2,000 trillion sentient species out there.

That may seem like a lot, but that is only one tool making species for every 20 million stars.


QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Aug 3 2011, 04:07 AM) *
Ok guys, we all did read about forms of "life" existing in outer space, because there are so many starts, galaxies, it would be nearly impossible that we are "alone" in the Universe.

however, do you feel that some other forms of life came and exist on Earth, except we aren't aware of them? smile.gif


This post has been edited by fkalich: Aug 3 2011, 12:26 PM
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Fran
post Aug 3 2011, 01:26 PM
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I obviously don't know, but I believe we are "alone", or else they would have already eaten us laugh.gif


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Sollesnes
post Aug 3 2011, 02:55 PM
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Good post, fkalich!

The only thing in common for all things we know as life, is the need for liquid water (recently discovered). Water literally litters the universe, and I see no reason at all to think we are the only living beings in the cosmos, not the only intelliegnt beings either.
There is even a very high chance for microbial life as close as on Saturns moon 'Titan'.
And to the question: I don't think there are aliens on earth. I believe any encounter with technologically superior beings would probably involve some form of robotic presentation, to avoid any virus or bacteria contamination for both sides. And if they are anything like humans, logic dictates they would not come in peace.

Also very interesting is the chance for us to be "aliens" ourselves. I'm not thinking of any new-age BS, but life may very well have been transported around in the universe on astroids. Tardigrade-like beings could probably have survived within astroids for a limited amount of time, and thus life could have spread between star-systems and maybye even further. Our oldest ancestors might very well be 'aliens'.
As the chance for life to create itself is very small (but certaintly is there, and even that gives a fair amount of life out there (as fkalich sais)), the biological needs to sustain life landed from meteors containing tardigrade-like beings is not as difficult or rare or time-consuming as what is needed to create life in the first place.

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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 3 2011, 03:18 PM
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I don't have too much information about this but I can't believe that knowing that there are so many other galaxies out there we are alone... I think that there must be life in other places.. and I hope that they never decide to attack us! ohmy.gif


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Michael AC
post Aug 3 2011, 03:40 PM
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That would depend on your viewpoint of Evolutionary Science or Creation Science. I subscribe to the later that the galaxies were created for signs and seasons and to show the magnitude of a creator and the uniqueness in each one of us.

With the prior viewpoint it is completely understandable that would follow in a belief of life in other galaxies.

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MonkeyDAthos
post Aug 3 2011, 03:55 PM
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there might be live in our solar system, Jupiter moon's Europe.
the moon is cover, with ice and below it, people think there might be a vast ocean, and they are hoping to find life there microbacterium maybe but well life is life.

and we have aliens among us, what do you think Satriani is ph34r.gif a normal bald guy? why do you think he use sun glasses almost all the time!

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Aug 3 2011, 03:57 PM


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Azzaboi
post Aug 3 2011, 07:47 PM
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Sure there's microscopic celled life, but you will never find another intelligence lifeform. America actually faked the whole Aliens/UFO thing from the start with their stealth tech planes and helicopters and movies to what we see to look like.

If you look closely you might even be able to spot one in their 'Moon Landing' high budget, low quality 'doctored' motion picture! laugh.gif

But seriously, your asking Evolution vs Christain believe. If you believe in Evolution then you better watch out for some crazy aliens coming to invade and blow us all up (possibly us being the aliens knowing all those trigger happys)!


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thefireball
post Aug 3 2011, 08:06 PM
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I'll just say I doubt there are others out there. smile.gif


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MonkeyDAthos
post Aug 3 2011, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Aug 3 2011, 07:47 PM) *
Sure there's microscopic celled life, but you will never find another intelligence lifeform. America actually faked the whole Aliens/UFO thing from the start with their stealth tech planes and helicopters and movies to what we see to look like.


sure you might just found microscopic life, but don't forget that's how it all started, i don't say in the next 10,100 years but million, they might evolve in some crazy ass Alien.

If you believe in Evolution then you better watch out for some crazy aliens coming to invade and blow us all up, ahah that's a soo ego humanist though q:

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Aug 3 2011, 08:15 PM


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Sollesnes
post Aug 3 2011, 09:24 PM
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Remember that evolution doesn't necessarily mean growing into anything more complex or advanced. Whatever reproduces the most...
Azza, why do you believe there could be micro organisms, but not beings we would recognize as intelligent? It strikes me as an odd way of thinking. Intelligent could be.. like us? If there are beings out there that somehow got technology to utilize shortcuts in time-space (how else get to earth?), there would have to be a million at the same stage as we are for each of those...
Road from microbial life to life functioning the way we see on earth today would not be a difficult one, if the conditions are right (which there are no reason to doubt there being).
Sure if you put your thinking in the creationist side, I'll respect that of course, but by your post it didn't seem so (and it being a mostly american phenomenon among developed countries)?

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fkalich
post Aug 3 2011, 09:56 PM
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Good posts all. Regarding sentient life, and this is interesting, neurologists today generally subscribe to believing that consciousness is rooted in the neocortex. This is based on the fact that lesions in the brain have been observed to remove elements of consciousness. For example their are people with damage to one part of the brain who will tell you they are blind, but can still catch a ball, or point precisely to a light source. Still they will insist that they are blind. Sight is still there, but they are not consciously aware of it. Other than higher mammals, other animals may have little or no conscious self at all. I expect they all have a little of it, but the light may be quite dim in most, they may be nothing more than biological robots running on auto pilot, giving an illusion of consciousness.

It may be very rare to have evolved conscious life on any planet, as only higher members of one family (mammals) appear to have done so. Dog lovers will be happy to know that dogs are an advanced mammal with a relatively large proportional neocortex. Cats have this as well, but a little less pronounce than dogs. It makes me a bit sad that my two fish are probably little more than biological robots, they give the illusion of being conscious. But so do robot dogs playing soccer.
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Adrian Figallo
post Aug 4 2011, 01:31 AM
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i always ask myself the same question, maybe under water? who knows, but tis very intriguing , i think our 5 senses limit us in many ways.


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jstcrsn
post Aug 4 2011, 03:45 AM
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QUOTE (Sollesnes @ Aug 3 2011, 09:24 PM) *
Remember that evolution doesn't necessarily mean growing into anything more complex or advanced. Whatever reproduces the most...
Azza, why do you believe there could be micro organisms, but not beings we would recognize as intelligent? It strikes me as an odd way of thinking. Intelligent could be.. like us? If there are beings out there that somehow got technology to utilize shortcuts in time-space (how else get to earth?), there would have to be a million at the same stage as we are for each of those...
Road from microbial life to life functioning the way we see on earth today would not be a difficult one, if the conditions are right (which there are no reason to doubt there being).
Sure if you put your thinking in the creationist side, I'll respect that of course, but by your post it didn't seem so (and it being a mostly american phenomenon among developed countries)?

I am not picking on you ,just replying to the evoulution talk
if that is your theory ,let me ask you ,is it possible that we could find new information that says our figures our off
example , the scientific elite thought the world was flat until they got new info proving there science was wrong
could that hapen again with oue evolution theory ?

let me help any body out
if you say yes. we could get new info - you have just determined it is still just a theory
if you say no you, just don't ,you will probably sound foolish
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MonkeyDAthos
post Aug 4 2011, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Aug 4 2011, 03:45 AM) *
I am not picking on you ,just replying to the evoulution talk
if that is your theory ,let me ask you ,is it possible that we could find new information that says our figures our off
example , the scientific elite thought the world was flat until they got new info proving there science was wrong
could that hapen again with oue evolution theory ?



it could in my opinion, when we "create a theory", we are trying to prove something that we "expect", so our theory is, at the very beginning ,corrupted with our expectations, there aren't any perfect theories, just approximation of it (the perfect).

beside.

X Livings Beings evolve into more complex ones, it took millions of years, but yet you can't assume that all Livings Beings in the universe (assuming that they exist, intelligent or not), will evolve in the same as us, you will fall into the solipsism in my opinion, thinking that way.

so yep, unless you get the theory of evolution, with "Rational", valid info..you cannot advance on knowledgment and i am pretty sure one day we will.

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Aug 4 2011, 04:21 AM


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Mudbone
post Aug 4 2011, 07:37 AM
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Its funny how people misinterpret the word "theory". A theory is the gathering of facts into a single concept used to explain things. Gravity is also a theory, but I don't think anybody will be testing it by jumping off a building. It was mentioned earlier that the worlds top scientists said that the world was flat. This is not true. Pythagoras figured out that the world was spherical in the 6th century BC. Many civilizations accepted that the world was spherical, but I'm not going to get into why the flat Earth concept prevailed, because I know some people will get bent out of shape.

Anyhow, for those of you outside of the US, you have to check out the TV series called "Cosmos." It was originally aired in the early 80's, back when we were a more intelligent country. Its really sad how we have slipped so far away from being the world leader in science. Being so engrossed in science was good for us, and good for the world as well. This show was presented by Carl Sagan, a preeminent astronomer and philosopher. His wisdom and insight is dearly missed. The show elaborates on the cosmos and our place in it. The soundtrack was scored by Vangelis, and its brilliant. If you don't know who he is, look him up biggrin.gif

Heres two clips from the show Cosmos. I highly recommend you watch all 12 or 13 episodes. It might change your perspective on everything. It definitely changed mine.








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