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> Question For Tony And More Experienced Mixers, The perceived level of high frequencies vs. low frequencies
The Uncreator
post Aug 14 2011, 03:44 PM
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So this question is something I've always wanted to ask. Basically when I am recording, I'll have a riff that I am using octaves on like this one here.

|---------
|---------
|---10---
|---------
|---8----
|---------

This F octave I'll harmonize with another C octave


|----------
|---12----
|----------
|---10----
|----------
|----------


And when I set them in the mix and the rhythm guitars are panned 100 L/R the higher octave (the C ) always seems a tad bit higher in level when compared to the F.

I check my track meters and all that and they are within .1db to .2db of each other - So I am wondering if this naturally occurring because of the frequencies, or if it boils down to something else basic such as tone or placement in mix?
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TylerT
post Aug 14 2011, 03:52 PM
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I would say its both...but Tony is the man to answer this haha tongue.gif

Even though the same volume I would assume the higher frequency one would cut through the mix better.

Are you quad tracking it? (Eg 2 guitar L/R doing 1 octave another 2 guitars L/R doing the other)
Or just double tracking?


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 14 2011, 04:10 PM
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Probably a combination of things:

1/ The Fletcher Munson equal loudness contour curve may have an affect in that we tend to hear the frequency band more clearly in the mid from around 1-5kHz. This may thus have some affect here.

2/ one octave might be sitting a little better in the mix if there's more space around it and so be perceived as louder.

3/ conversely it may be perceived as a bit louder if it, or particularly the harmonics, share the same frequency as another signal and they then interact (doesn't have to be exactly the same btw) through phase to comb filter and cause a little attenuation.

4/ If the filtershape on your EQ is less than ideal it can be possible to boost without realising it. Parametrics can sum two eq curves and add gain if the filters are in series rather than parallel- most eqs can't do parallel.

5/ may be down to a slight mismatch in the gain on the pickup.

6/ may be a slight inaccuracy on the meters - peak meters aren't always very accurate for below reading 1dB differences.

Just t add - as far as you can trust your ears more than what any daw meter shows.
Best advice for everyone is always mix with your ears not with your eyes smile.gif

This post has been edited by tonymiro: Aug 14 2011, 04:14 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 14 2011, 06:54 PM
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Nothing to add here,, Thanks Tony for this great feedback. smile.gif


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The Uncreator
post Aug 14 2011, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 14 2011, 11:10 AM) *
Probably a combination of things:

1/ The Fletcher Munson equal loudness contour curve may have an affect in that we tend to hear the frequency band more clearly in the mid from around 1-5kHz. This may thus have some affect here.

2/ one octave might be sitting a little better in the mix if there's more space around it and so be perceived as louder.

3/ conversely it may be perceived as a bit louder if it, or particularly the harmonics, share the same frequency as another signal and they then interact (doesn't have to be exactly the same btw) through phase to comb filter and cause a little attenuation.

4/ If the filtershape on your EQ is less than ideal it can be possible to boost without realising it. Parametrics can sum two eq curves and add gain if the filters are in series rather than parallel- most eqs can't do parallel.

5/ may be down to a slight mismatch in the gain on the pickup.

6/ may be a slight inaccuracy on the meters - peak meters aren't always very accurate for below reading 1dB differences.

Just t add - as far as you can trust your ears more than what any daw meter shows.
Best advice for everyone is always mix with your ears not with your eyes smile.gif


Very true, but I think I have been wanting to ask this for some 2 years or something laugh.gif

Thanks for all the help as always!
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Daniel Realpe
post Aug 15 2011, 09:42 AM
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I've always noticed that when I play the D or Csharp in my guitar it tends to go up in "volume" it feels like it resonates more. Maybe it has to do with frequencies.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Aug 15 2011, 09:11 PM
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Quite possibly. However, I noticed that on some bass guitars, some notes ring louder, and some not. On some better quality basses like Musicman, all the notes are more similar in loudness. I kinda liked that, it was a balanced instrument. It's the same with guitars, I've seen it (actually heard it smile.gif ) lots of times.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Aug 15 2011, 09:11 PM


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