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> Home Recordings - Gemma Gibbim
herrb
post Aug 19 2011, 11:49 PM
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Hey there guys!

A couple of weeks/months ago, I started a little project with a friend of mine called "Gemma Gibbim". We tried to get the best out of what we had in my room: a Jackson RR 5 --> Engl Fireball 100 --> Marshall V30 Cab --> Shure SM 58 --> Mixer --> PC

Drums come from Superior Drummer Software.

Well for further questions just ask, we just released our third song and I'm proud of the quality of sound we achieved. So go check us out on Soundcloud NOW and tell me what you think or what your want to know.

http://soundcloud.com/gemma-gibbim
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 20 2011, 03:59 AM
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VERY NICE! Your recording/mixing technique is just killer. Of course, I"m sure there are some folks who will have some suggestions/notes/changes, let me be the first to say that this sounds pretty darn great smile.gif It's also well played!

Getting home recordings to sound this nice is not easy. So how about some posts on tutorials on how you got your overall sound? Would be great for the wiki smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 19 2011, 10:57 PM) *
VERY NICE! Your recording/mixing technique is just killer. Of course, I"m sure there are some folks who will have some suggestions/notes/changes, let me be the first to say that this sounds pretty darn great smile.gif It's also well played!

Getting home recordings to sound this nice is not easy. So how about some posts on tutorials on how you got your overall sound? Would be great for the wiki smile.gif


P.S. What was your DAW (software) and what plugins did you use? I see you have compressed the final mix quite a bit to get plenty of volume.

Todd



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Ivan Milenkovic
post Aug 20 2011, 10:30 AM
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Wow, the songs are awesome! smile.gif

I concentrated on the Guts Remastered mostly, and I think it's good, although mixing could be better. The mix is clogged in the lowmid range, you need to try to clear out the that region a bit. If you used Superior, I'm guessing you used NY Avatar samples? They are OK, with wood samples you can work with, but cymbals are really on the thin side. Possibly loading a separate set of cymbals will work. As always listen how they interact with the mix, instead of listening the solo.

They way I see it, everything is hard-panned to stereo while vocals are kind of left in the middle of the mix on their own, which kind of detaches them from the song. Try to lower down the panning of instruments a bit, and add compression, delay and reverb to the vocals, just a tiny bit. Possibly this way they will sit in the mix, instead of being so up front.

In general, don't boost any frequencies on the tracks. Instead, try to cut some of the guitars so you leave room for bass and kick. Bass guitar is really boomy, so cut the bass at 80Hz, and add some mids to the bass so you have some note definition. Investigate what freqeuncy in the midrange section is the most pleasant when listening to bass, and just add a slight boost, +1-2dB. It might sound the same, but it won't later on.

Guitars are the thing that gives the warmth to this recording, but I think the sound itself is a bit buzzy, perhaps you can work with SM58 position on the cab a bit more in order to get proper color for the mix itself? Avoid doing any EQing of the guitars, instead (in order to get the most warmth) EQ the track you already recorded so it sits in the mix. Then try to make very similar EQing again on a new track by using only positioning of the SM58. It may be time consuming but it will pay out in the end. Also, I believe you used too much distortion when recording here. Use much much less distortion and more layers. Here's a simple example on how to create very defined tight and clear guitars:

- 90% left guitar: record with moderate distortion, scooped mids and added presence
- 90% right guitar: record with moderate distortion and scooped mids, with less presence
- 80% left guitar: record with very little distortion, crunch with no sustain, and slightly more mids
- 80% right guitar: record with very little distortion, crunch with no sustain, and slightly more mids, with added presence

Try this combo, you will see that the crunchy tracks will add to the attack, while the moderately distorted ones will create mass and sustain. With crunchiness you create that initial G-attack, while the scooped ones are creating a controlled "oomhp" which must sound tight. Again, use less drive, since these 4 tracks will add up the gain on their own.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Aug 20 2011, 10:35 AM


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Sinisa Cekic
post Aug 20 2011, 10:39 PM
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For home rec, this is great !


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 21 2011, 08:02 PM
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Hey man, congrats! I see Ivan's suggestions are very thorough, so the only thing which I might add is that I feel you should turn the volume of the voices a bit down.


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herrb
post Aug 25 2011, 12:31 PM
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thanks a lot for all your replies! i'm very glad you like it and think i can use your suggestions very well. for we are two people in this formation and my friend does most of the mixing and mastering, i'm looking forward to work these suggestions out with him.

we use ableton live 8, which is very usefriendly and although i get al lot of citics for not using protools or cubase or whatever, i think we've done a nice job and got better from song to song. i'll let you know what we've changed when we are going to record our next song!

my way of recording is mostly inspired by some swedish guy who is the most awesome musician, producer whatever that i know. check ou his website www.olaenglund.com and his youtube channel. here's the toutorial which i followed in the beginning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WLhv0rId5k

greetz, peter
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Daniel Realpe
post Aug 26 2011, 02:36 PM
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Sounds really good!It sounds really good! thnx for sharing!


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 26 2011, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE (herrb @ Aug 25 2011, 07:31 AM) *
thanks a lot for all your replies! i'm very glad you like it and think i can use your suggestions very well. for we are two people in this formation and my friend does most of the mixing and mastering, i'm looking forward to work these suggestions out with him..


Ola is Da Man! I follow him on facebook too. smile.gif As for your mix, you can always work in Cubase and then once you have a stereo audio file mix, then go in to something else to master. For example, you could use REAPER which is free and has lots of tone shaping plugins already built in. In addition, you can download some great plugins from VOXENGO for giving your mix the final touches in the mastering stage. Here is a link to my instructor forum thread packed with FREE software / plugins to download that will help with recording/mixing/mastering smile.gif

Ivan had some very good and detailed suggestions on your mix. Good ears Ivan!


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herrb
post Aug 29 2011, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Aug 20 2011, 11:30 AM) *
Wow, the songs are awesome! smile.gif

I concentrated on the Guts Remastered mostly, and I think it's good, although mixing could be better. The mix is clogged in the lowmid range, you need to try to clear out the that region a bit. If you used Superior, I'm guessing you used NY Avatar samples? They are OK, with wood samples you can work with, but cymbals are really on the thin side. Possibly loading a separate set of cymbals will work. As always listen how they interact with the mix, instead of listening the solo.

They way I see it, everything is hard-panned to stereo while vocals are kind of left in the middle of the mix on their own, which kind of detaches them from the song. Try to lower down the panning of instruments a bit, and add compression, delay and reverb to the vocals, just a tiny bit. Possibly this way they will sit in the mix, instead of being so up front.

In general, don't boost any frequencies on the tracks. Instead, try to cut some of the guitars so you leave room for bass and kick. Bass guitar is really boomy, so cut the bass at 80Hz, and add some mids to the bass so you have some note definition. Investigate what freqeuncy in the midrange section is the most pleasant when listening to bass, and just add a slight boost, +1-2dB. It might sound the same, but it won't later on.

Guitars are the thing that gives the warmth to this recording, but I think the sound itself is a bit buzzy, perhaps you can work with SM58 position on the cab a bit more in order to get proper color for the mix itself? Avoid doing any EQing of the guitars, instead (in order to get the most warmth) EQ the track you already recorded so it sits in the mix. Then try to make very similar EQing again on a new track by using only positioning of the SM58. It may be time consuming but it will pay out in the end. Also, I believe you used too much distortion when recording here. Use much much less distortion and more layers. Here's a simple example on how to create very defined tight and clear guitars:

- 90% left guitar: record with moderate distortion, scooped mids and added presence
- 90% right guitar: record with moderate distortion and scooped mids, with less presence
- 80% left guitar: record with very little distortion, crunch with no sustain, and slightly more mids
- 80% right guitar: record with very little distortion, crunch with no sustain, and slightly more mids, with added presence

Try this combo, you will see that the crunchy tracks will add to the attack, while the moderately distorted ones will create mass and sustain. With crunchiness you create that initial G-attack, while the scooped ones are creating a controlled "oomhp" which must sound tight. Again, use less drive, since these 4 tracks will add up the gain on their own.


Hi Ivan,

thank you very much for this detailed input. I'm the guy who mixed and mastered all the songs. I'm aware of most of the problems in the mix of guts, but it was our first try. I really would like to know what you think of "Guilty", because I think its much better. I have to say, that I never learned anything about mixing and mastering from some professional, all my knowledge comes from try and error and reading a lot of tutorials. ;-) The thing with the guitars are really helpful, because i always got the problem that heavier distortion lacks in attack...combining heavy distortion with more crunchy and clear settings never came in to my mind. Thank you very much. I will try this for shure!

The drumsamples in guilty are the same than in guts! I concentrated on the drums, because the superrior drummer lets you mix the drums like really recorded drums. It realy took me some time to get the sound of drums right. Now I think I got it right!
Also i think the Bass in guilty is much better than in guts. thats because we changed the 4 year old strings to new ones ;-) and the second is, that we recorded the bass just like the guitars. I mean, i didnt record the bass just line in, I put it in throug our guitarcombo witch cuts alle the frequencies below the 80 hz, so i didnt have to cut it in the mix. I also added a tiny bit of distortion on the amp to the bass to boost the midlefreq. I realised, that the bass doesnt need theese lowest freqs. Therefore i got more space for the kickdrum.

I hope we can stay in touch, and im looking forward to your reply.

Martin

PS: If you want to hear the electronical stuff i'm producing goto www.soundcloud.com/mortonfox

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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 29 2011, 05:15 PM
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Pretty much what Ivan says.

To be absolutely honest I think you should concentrate on getting the mix as good as you can before any attempt is made to master. Mastering isn't about correcting a mix and nor is it about effect processing. Mastering is about the final stage of getting a recording ready for commerical release or digital distribution. By far and away the main part of mastering is to do with QA and ensuring that redbook standards are met.

At the moment there are various issues ranging from instruments and vocals not sitting correctly; a muddy low midrange; too much bass and over compression (though that's partly down to the transcoding on Soundcloud) and compression that isn't quite right.

With too much bass end - check how the bass guitar sits with and interacts with the kick drum. If necessary you may need to do some low end frequency attenuation (very often betwen 80-100Hz) but also look at the attack and release that settings that you use in mixing both on the drum bus and also on the bass so that thy sit together rather than getting in each others way. You may also want to consider HPFing the guitars at 90Hz if you haven't already done so. In addition the character of the bass can be brought out if you eq the harmonics.

Mid range - muddy low mid nearly always needs eq attenuation somewhere in the 220-400Hz end. Again you can always get character back by looking at how you eq the harmonics. Also be careful how you eq the higher mid from 2-6kHz as the huan ear is very susceptable to this range and it's often over done.

Panning instruments can help with the stereo mix and apparent placement and width. So it can also help place instruments without them fighting each other. When you pan be aware of the panning law and also try to ensure that the soundstage /placement is as close to what you would normally expect unless you really want to achiieve a different mix.

Vocals need to be brought forward and ideally you should retrack them. If you can't then you should fader ride the mix to help bring the vocals out. Try comparing the present mix to one where the vocal sits at +1.5dB and another at -1.5dB - that way you get a clearer picture on how well the vocs sit.

If you're happy with the voc level but want to emphasise them a bit then one trick is to momentarily drop the overall level of the track moments before a vocal chorus and bring it back up quickly as the vocal hits in - it's a little like ducking. Another is to use parallel compression for the vocal just to thicken it and add a bit more depth. You can also use parallel compression to thicken a guitar sound without going with the near ubiquitous multi layer guitar wall of sound.



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