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> Bands And Recording, Amp sims or the real thing?
thefireball
post Aug 26 2011, 05:13 AM
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I was wondering, do any professional bands use amp sims or do they all use their real live gear plugged into an awesome interface. It's amazing the quality they get in a mix. I just can't get it in amp sims. Am I being fooled and they really use sims? Or perhaps do they mic their amps?

I listen to Red, Skillet, and Demon Hunter, by the way.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 26 2011, 06:10 AM
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I don't think that those bands that you listen use simulators... I have checked lots of "in the studio" youtube videos and there are always tube heads when they are recording guitars...

check the first part of this video... I can see some cool cabs behind the sound engineer... I don't think that they wouldn't use them if they have it...



This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Aug 26 2011, 06:11 AM


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Adrian Figallo
post Aug 26 2011, 06:14 AM
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yeah, all the big bands always use real tube amps, why? because they feel much better, and they sound great.
now, i do think you can get a pro quality with simulators, is not about the sound itself, it's about the attitude, a good song, a good band, good playing.

good tone=good fingers, and that's about it.


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 26 2011, 07:35 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Aug 26 2011, 12:13 AM) *
I was wondering, do any professional bands use amp sims or do they all use their real live gear plugged into an awesome interface. It's amazing the quality they get in a mix. I just can't get it in amp sims. Am I being fooled and they really use sims? Or perhaps do they mic their amps?

I listen to Red, Skillet, and Demon Hunter, by the way.


Not suprisingly budget has a lot to do with it. Great amps are not cheap and some bands even rent better amps than they own to record. On the other side, bands are starting to use emulation to save studio time/money. For example Dragon Force uses a ROCKTRON PROPHECY rack module and skips amps completely. This is more and more common.



As for getting good/HEAVY tone from emulation. The secret is in the signal chain. I had the same issue until I added a rack mount active direct box (with 20db of gain) before my guitar cable goes to my interface. It made all the difference with Guitar Rig here is an example. All emulation.

http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/lesson63-backing

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 26 2011, 07:36 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Aug 26 2011, 09:59 AM
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I believe they use real heads and more importantly - miced cabs. If you are already using professional studio to record something good and rich in sound and range, why not using a real stuff for the best result?

But, yes, as Adrian said, it has a lot to do with the song as well. Good songs don't need super production, they are just good.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Aug 26 2011, 10:00 AM


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Daniel Realpe
post Aug 26 2011, 11:17 AM
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To use an amp is always better imo. But emulation has gone very far with the latest technology, I'm impressed with the clips from the Axe FX


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 26 2011, 12:00 PM
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I think that there are a number of possible issues here.

First, don't assume that every artist always uses and will only use the eqpuipment they endorse or demonstrate.
Second, what you hear on CD etc is likely to have been recorded, mixed and mastered professionally. It's very unlikely to be the amp - real or sim - all by itself with no additional treatment/processing/production.


IME most bands will record with real amps as others have already stated. In much the same way many at the pro end also prefer the recording, mixing and mastering to be done using hardware rather than software. Rightly or not many still believe that whilst emulation has improved that it still does not match the hardware.

Nonetheless amp sims are still used particulaly as they lend themselves really well to re-amping as Todd says and because they also give you access to a wide range of virtual amps, speakers and mics.

Regardless of what you use though you still have to invest time in to finding a decent basic sound that can be adapted as the room acoustics requires...

Also Adrian says a good song is still a good song even with poor production.

A bad song is still a bad song even if it has wonderful production.

A good song and great production though is what it's all about smile.gif)


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thefireball
post Aug 29 2011, 03:40 AM
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Awesome replies y'all. Thanks. smile.gif I was laughing at the guys at Dragonforce. Hahaha. I would love to take a sneak peek at my favorite bands re-recording until they get it right. It's amazing how many takes you might go through...just like me. smile.gif


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Adrian Figallo
post Aug 29 2011, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 26 2011, 01:35 AM) *
Not suprisingly budget has a lot to do with it. Great amps are not cheap and some bands even rent better amps than they own to record. On the other side, bands are starting to use emulation to save studio time/money. For example Dragon Force uses a ROCKTRON PROPHECY rack module and skips amps completely. This is more and more common.



As for getting good/HEAVY tone from emulation. The secret is in the signal chain. I had the same issue until I added a rack mount active direct box (with 20db of gain) before my guitar cable goes to my interface. It made all the difference with Guitar Rig here is an example. All emulation.

http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/lesson63-backing


This guys are funny biggrin.gif, home studios are rocking these days.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 29 2011, 07:03 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 26 2011, 03:35 AM) *
Not suprisingly budget has a lot to do with it. Great amps are not cheap and some bands even rent better amps than they own to record. On the other side, bands are starting to use emulation to save studio time/money. For example Dragon Force uses a ROCKTRON PROPHECY rack module and skips amps completely. This is more and more common.



As for getting good/HEAVY tone from emulation. The secret is in the signal chain. I had the same issue until I added a rack mount active direct box (with 20db of gain) before my guitar cable goes to my interface. It made all the difference with Guitar Rig here is an example. All emulation.

http://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/lesson63-backing



Cool video! I like Dragonforce. and yeah, nowadays it's easier to get a professional sound in your bedroom... it's awesome.


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Sinisa Cekic
post Aug 29 2011, 10:26 PM
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I also think that the analogy is dominant in musical studies.Home recording can simplify and speed up the process, but in the end it still has to pass through the studio equipment to get a professional tone!


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 29 2011, 10:59 PM
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Someone here on the forum has once said something very very nice, which stayed in my mind for a looong time:

'Why do all the digital devices famous emulate real amps? Because they sound awesome!' So who would want to emulate when with a little effort you could have the real deal. Of course, you need folks who know how to get the best out of those monsters, and then again, there are A LOT of awesome bands out there who use software like Guitar Rig 4, Revalver MK3, Vandal and all that, to make a guitar sound which is very close to the real deal smile.gif the truth is out there wink.gif but I go with the tubes biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 30 2011, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 26 2011, 07:00 AM) *
I think that there are a number of possible issues here.

First, don't assume that every artist always uses and will only use the eqpuipment they endorse or demonstrate.
Second, what you hear on CD etc is likely to have been recorded, mixed and mastered professionally. It's very unlikely to be the amp - real or sim - all by itself with no additional treatment/processing/production.


IME most bands will record with real amps as others have already stated. In much the same way many at the pro end also prefer the recording, mixing and mastering to be done using hardware rather than software. Rightly or not many still believe that whilst emulation has improved that it still does not match the hardware.

Nonetheless amp sims are still used particulaly as they lend themselves really well to re-amping as Todd says and because they also give you access to a wide range of virtual amps, speakers and mics.

Regardless of what you use though you still have to invest time in to finding a decent basic sound that can be adapted as the room acoustics requires...

Also Adrian says a good song is still a good song even with poor production.

A bad song is still a bad song even if it has wonderful production.

A good song and great production though is what it's all about smile.gif)


A great post per usual that pretty much covers the gambit. Well said!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 30 2011, 06:45 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 26 2011, 08:00 AM) *
Also Adrian says a good song is still a good song even with poor production.

A bad song is still a bad song even if it has wonderful production.

A good song and great production though is what it's all about smile.gif)


Wise words!


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 30 2011, 07:39 AM
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+1

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 26 2011, 11:00 AM) *
I think that there are a number of possible issues here.

First, don't assume that every artist always uses and will only use the eqpuipment they endorse or demonstrate.
Second, what you hear on CD etc is likely to have been recorded, mixed and mastered professionally. It's very unlikely to be the amp - real or sim - all by itself with no additional treatment/processing/production.


IME most bands will record with real amps as others have already stated. In much the same way many at the pro end also prefer the recording, mixing and mastering to be done using hardware rather than software. Rightly or not many still believe that whilst emulation has improved that it still does not match the hardware.

Nonetheless amp sims are still used particulaly as they lend themselves really well to re-amping as Todd says and because they also give you access to a wide range of virtual amps, speakers and mics.

Regardless of what you use though you still have to invest time in to finding a decent basic sound that can be adapted as the room acoustics requires...

Also Adrian says a good song is still a good song even with poor production.

A bad song is still a bad song even if it has wonderful production.

A good song and great production though is what it's all about smile.gif)



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thefireball
post Aug 30 2011, 09:56 PM
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Yeah, I can definitely tell a difference when I play through a real amp. But my budget won't let me buy one. sad.gif
So I just go with POD Farm for now. biggrin.gif

I'm talking like the real big amps. The Real Deal.


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Adrian Figallo
post Aug 31 2011, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Aug 30 2011, 03:56 PM) *
Yeah, I can definitely tell a difference when I play through a real amp. But my budget won't let me buy one. sad.gif
So I just go with POD Farm for now. biggrin.gif

I'm talking like the real big amps. The Real Deal.


Same here dude... same here biggrin.gif


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The Uncreator
post Sep 1 2011, 02:00 AM
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Some of my favorite sounds were created by sims actually, they have come very far. I cant remember which one this is, but Sebastien used all sims/ emulators for this one, no amps.



LOVE that sound. Although, It doesnt come cheap (much like real amps)
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audiopaal
post Sep 1 2011, 10:53 AM
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I've heard about bands using Amp Simulators or Cabinet Simulators in the studio and still sound great.
However, they usually run their instruments through expensive and great mic/line/instrument preamps
from Universal Audio, API, Manley or Chandler etc. to make it sound as good as it gets.
That can sound awesome, but you wont get that sound directly into your soundcard (without any good outboard processing) unfortunatlely sad.gif

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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 1 2011, 11:41 AM
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Yeah Paal is right. People usually talk about simulators as a "cheaper" option. Sims can be very expensive, when you calculate the whole signal chain. For that much money, you can easily buy two mini tube heads and 2 SM57s, and have fun all day long.


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