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> Bands And Recording, Amp sims or the real thing?
audiopaal
post Sep 1 2011, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Sep 1 2011, 12:41 PM) *
Yeah Paal is right. People usually talk about simulators as a "cheaper" option. Sims can be very expensive, when you calculate the whole signal chain. For that much money, you can easily buy two mini tube heads and 2 SM57s, and have fun all day long.

Absolutely right! It's cheap if you're happy with the sound directly from simulator into soundcard.
But if you're looking for top recordings from simulators you need other gear
that's in the same pricerange as a tube head smile.gif

I could make a demonstration of this in a few days if anyone is interested?
You'll notice the difference, that's for sure!
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 1 2011, 05:02 PM
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Sure mate, why not smile.gif


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Lenni
post Sep 1 2011, 09:28 PM
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Looking forward to that demonstration! smile.gif

As for recording I think combining both worlds can be a very practical and more or less cheap alternative. A rather small "home-studio" is already more than enough to record some decent DIs (while taking all the time you need) and later they can be reamped in no time in a professional environment to achieve that sound you where always looking for.
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thefireball
post Sep 2 2011, 04:03 AM
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Yeah, I would like to see that demo too! smile.gif


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audiopaal
post Sep 3 2011, 03:30 PM
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Nice, I'll record something and post it soon smile.gif
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Michael AC
post Sep 3 2011, 05:09 PM
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I get frustrated like what fireball is talking about...I get a great tone from my tube amp, but then when I go into my pc from my direct out, I have to do a lot of editing and adding to get close to the sound from the amp. I definitely like to mic the amp instead than using direct out.

The other thing in the posts here that stuck out to me is the change in environment. My amp in the basement versus when playing outside changes the sound sometimes dramatically.

Would love to see the demo, as I am still trying to decide on what purchase to save up for, get a better tube head, or stay with what I have and buy more processing...

THanks for the topic!

This post has been edited by Michael AC: Sep 3 2011, 05:10 PM
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 3 2011, 07:50 PM
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If your goal is to make songs, just for you, for now, to do pilot projects, go for digital. If you want to build a studio and record yourself and other bands, go for investments in real amp, mics, cables, room treatment etc..


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 4 2011, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 26 2011, 12:00 PM) *
...
Second, what you hear on CD etc is likely to have been recorded, mixed and mastered professionally. It's very unlikely to be the amp - real or sim - all by itself with no additional treatment/processing/production.
...



QUOTE (audiopaal @ Sep 1 2011, 10:53 AM) *
I've heard about bands using Amp Simulators or Cabinet Simulators in the studio and still sound great.
However, they usually run their instruments through expensive and great mic/line/instrument preamps
from Universal Audio, API, Manley or Chandler etc. to make it sound as good as it gets.
That can sound awesome, but you wont get that sound directly into your soundcard (without any good outboard processing) unfortunatlely sad.gif


Yes. My point is that on a professional session it's likely that all signals have been through a pro end recording chain and thus high end mic pres, eqs, compressors, whatever. That is regardless of whether the source was analogue, digital or an emulation. If you try and get the same sound at home you are unlikely to because you don't have the same outboard etc. and that is true even if you use the same emulation preset, eq settings and guitar etc as the recording artist: the sound you hear on a recording is not jus down to the guitar, amp/amp sim, and player.

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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Sep 1 2011, 11:41 AM) *
Yeah Paal is right. People usually talk about simulators as a "cheaper" option. Sims can be very expensive, when you calculate the whole signal chain. For that much money, you can easily buy two mini tube heads and 2 SM57s, and have fun all day long.


QUOTE
But if you're looking for top recordings from simulators you need other gear
that's in the same pricerange as a tube head


Sort of but the extra, expensive equipment is also used to record a normal amp so the cost of the chain is true for both the sim and the normal amp. Ultimately with recording if you use a low end, inexpensive chain then you will struggle/fail to get the audio quality of an equally well recorded audio using a high end, expensive chain. A Neve pre amp and Neumann mic combination is expensive and is used in lots of recording studios because they deliver a sound quality that just isn't captured/matched by an SM57 running it to cheap pre amp. You get what you pay for...

The only way to judge the amp sim against the real amp is put them both in the exact same environment - same chain etc and blind test them properly. To date when this has been done I'm not aware of any amp sim that has been found to be as good as or better than the real one.







QUOTE (Michael AC @ Sep 3 2011, 05:09 PM) *
I get frustrated like what fireball is talking about...I get a great tone from my tube amp, but then when I go into my pc from my direct out, I have to do a lot of editing and adding to get close to the sound from the amp. I definitely like to mic the amp instead than using direct out.

The other thing in the posts here that stuck out to me is the change in environment. My amp in the basement versus when playing outside changes the sound sometimes dramatically.

Would love to see the demo, as I am still trying to decide on what purchase to save up for, get a better tube head, or stay with what I have and buy more processing...

THanks for the topic!


If you use direct out you remove the speaker and cab from the recording chain. How the speaker and speaker cabinet responds to the signal from the amp is part of the sound of a live real amp. If you simulate/direct out then you should also try and do some sort of speaker and cabinet emulation.

You can also say similar things for the mic in the chain as well.


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