Trying To Create Meshuggah Tone, POD Farm GX Options

[Saoirse O'Shea]

It's not actually that easy to comment on the quality of a recording based on an mp3 due to the compression, possible cascading and other issues with soundcloud's transcoding.

I have a few days off so just as an idea...

If you can send me the track as a wave file then I'll take a proper listen etc. and send you the result, no charge. If you want to make any additions to the track before you send go ahead and if you have any questions about how to make it ready just ask.

I won't be able to spend a lot of time as I've other things to do so it won't be a proper mastering session but it may give you an idea and an insight in to how the track might come to sound. If you're also happy I'll post edited comments and a sample of before and after here.

I can't guarantee how long it will take as I'll have to work it around other stuff but if you want to do this it will help if you can send ti asap.

Anyway it's just an idea - drop me a pm if you're intersted.

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[Ivan Milenkovic]

This sounds already much better then the previous recording. Did you record these guitar tracks separately?

Here's some compression with software, tony will probably notice lots of problems with this one, but it's enough for now.

The thing I did is added lots of low end (maybe a bit too much), but track sounded thin without it. It feels better with more energy. I did to the track something that they do to every similar track these days - slammed it flat.

Like tony said, being loud is not about raising the levels only, you need to have a balanced mix where everything can stand out. Lots of times when I master already mixed track I wish I could have instruments by tracks, that would make the task so much easier but well...

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[Saoirse O'Shea]

... Lots of times when I master already mixed track I wish I could have instruments by tracks, that would make the task so much easier but well...

Stem mastering can help in some instances but usually comes with it's own issues. It always takes longer than you think and always longer than mastering since it's a combination of mixing and mastering. It's compromised as far too often, just like if you atempt to master your own mixes, you end up too close to the mix and so lack objectivity to master. So it's better to get the original mix engineer to improve the mix and to then master separately. The original engineer will often do the recall for free anyway as part of the original deal.

IME it's only something to do if the band have the stems and the mix engineer has either gone awol or really isn't up to the job.

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[The Uncreator]

In regards to the Meshuggah tone. There current tone, is pretty hard to get with a 6 string. An 8 string has a low string on it that rivals bass strings, it lends itself extremely well to low tunings with getting a clean 'pop'. On a 6 string, you're really going to need some heavy, heavy strings, and be sure to adjust your guitar suitably cause those heavy strings even at low tunings can warp a neck. Since your using POD farm, I can give some basic insights.

Start using the Line 6 Big Bottom, with about a 50% drive, a decent accent on the bass, and pretty heavy on the mids (8 or 9 area). The strong accent in the mids will give some clarity to your tone initially, and since your tuned so low, it wont be enough (or shouldnt be) to really over accent anything. Keep the treble about the same as the drive and use presence to replace treble if need be.

On the compressor, its going to be pretty intense. Probably anywhere between -40db and -70db for the threshold and 3-5db of gain. This will give some power to your tone but be sure to adjust to fit your guitar, otherwise you will smother it. on the EQ I recommend a spike of about 1.5 - 2.2 db at the 8.5k - 10.0k range, this will add some clarity once more which is helpful in these really low tunings.

On the stomp box, use whatever you may like, but I recommend the FX Boost + EQ model, with a low drive around 25% to 45 % nothing too much higher, bass and treble is up to you but the mids once again boost nicely. Lastly you will probably need a gate, which you can mess with to your liking.


Also, less gain equals more clarity. and to really pump up your tone, quad tracking can do wonders beef up a mix. Time consuming but very worth it I think. Its good if not all your equipment (like mine) is top of the line professional stuff.
This is a basic kind of setup based on the patch I made for my seven string, for that low kind of 'pop and chug' style rhythm Meshuggah does. Mine is aimed more towards chordal clarity so can just use this as a base if you want and adjust to fit what you need.

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[Sinisa Cekic]

In regards to the Meshuggah tone. There current tone, is pretty hard to get with a 6 string. An 8 string has a low string on it that rivals bass strings, it lends itself extremely well to low tunings with getting a clean 'pop'. On a 6 string, you're really going to need some heavy, heavy strings, and be sure to adjust your guitar suitably cause those heavy strings even at low tunings can warp a neck. Since your using POD farm, I can give some basic insights.

Start using the Line 6 Big Bottom, with about a 50% drive, a decent accent on the bass, and pretty heavy on the mids (8 or 9 area). The strong accent in the mids will give some clarity to your tone initially, and since your tuned so low, it wont be enough (or shouldnt be) to really over accent anything. Keep the treble about the same as the drive and use presence to replace treble if need be.

On the compressor, its going to be pretty intense. Probably anywhere between -40db and -70db for the threshold and 3-5db of gain. This will give some power to your tone but be sure to adjust to fit your guitar, otherwise you will smother it. on the EQ I recommend a spike of about 1.5 - 2.2 db at the 8.5k - 10.0k range, this will add some clarity once more which is helpful in these really low tunings.

On the stomp box, use whatever you may like, but I recommend the FX Boost + EQ model, with a low drive around 25% to 45 % nothing too much higher, bass and treble is up to you but the mids once again boost nicely. Lastly you will probably need a gate, which you can mess with to your liking.


Also, less gain equals more clarity. and to really pump up your tone, quad tracking can do wonders beef up a mix. Time consuming but very worth it I think. Its good if not all your equipment (like mine) is top of the line professional stuff.
This is a basic kind of setup based on the patch I made for my seven string, for that low kind of 'pop and chug' style rhythm Meshuggah does. Mine is aimed more towards chordal clarity so can just use this as a base if you want and adjust to fit what you need.

You are a LORD of tone !

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[thefireball]

I'll have to try this.

In regards to the Meshuggah tone. There current tone, is pretty hard to get with a 6 string. An 8 string has a low string on it that rivals bass strings, it lends itself extremely well to low tunings with getting a clean 'pop'. On a 6 string, you're really going to need some heavy, heavy strings, and be sure to adjust your guitar suitably cause those heavy strings even at low tunings can warp a neck. Since your using POD farm, I can give some basic insights.

Start using the Line 6 Big Bottom, with about a 50% drive, a decent accent on the bass, and pretty heavy on the mids (8 or 9 area). The strong accent in the mids will give some clarity to your tone initially, and since your tuned so low, it wont be enough (or shouldnt be) to really over accent anything. Keep the treble about the same as the drive and use presence to replace treble if need be.

On the compressor, its going to be pretty intense. Probably anywhere between -40db and -70db for the threshold and 3-5db of gain. This will give some power to your tone but be sure to adjust to fit your guitar, otherwise you will smother it. on the EQ I recommend a spike of about 1.5 - 2.2 db at the 8.5k - 10.0k range, this will add some clarity once more which is helpful in these really low tunings.

On the stomp box, use whatever you may like, but I recommend the FX Boost + EQ model, with a low drive around 25% to 45 % nothing too much higher, bass and treble is up to you but the mids once again boost nicely. Lastly you will probably need a gate, which you can mess with to your liking.


Also, less gain equals more clarity. and to really pump up your tone, quad tracking can do wonders beef up a mix. Time consuming but very worth it I think. Its good if not all your equipment (like mine) is top of the line professional stuff.
This is a basic kind of setup based on the patch I made for my seven string, for that low kind of 'pop and chug' style rhythm Meshuggah does. Mine is aimed more towards chordal clarity so can just use this as a base if you want and adjust to fit what you need.

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[The Uncreator]

also, the Angel P-Ball is another good amp to use for that beefy low end that works well in low tunings.

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[thefireball]

also, the Angel P-Ball is another good amp to use for that beefy low end that works well in low tunings.

Okay. I was wondering when I could actually use that one.

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[del-4fr53e3]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songI...songID=10113974
Play hi-fi.

Choose the "Angel P-Ball" model
Cab: 22 4x12 Treadplate
Mic: 1:57 on-axis
Treble at 4 o'clock
Mid at 5 o'clock
Bass at 12 o'clock
Presence at 5 o'clock
You want to add the "Screamer" pedal into the mix, drive at 20, gain at 20, tone at 80.

This should be a nice starting point if thats the djenty tone you're looking for. Using software emulation "can only get you so far" though.

You can google how to EQ djent to get the djent to come forward, and the hiss to go away. Also use minimal gain and 4x double it with different amps, or at least double it. - nothing that have not already been said I'm sure

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This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Oct 1 2011, 07:51 PM

[The Uncreator]

the whole 'djent' thing is basically a massive mids boost in general.

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[thefireball]

Thanks, Sollesnes and The Uncreator. Hey..oh, just remembered your name, Brett, I thought you were supposed to clip (scoop) the mids.

Brandon

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[thefireball]

So what do you think of this? The audio is just a quick demo of one of Cosmin's lessons I'm working on.

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[The Uncreator]

Pretty close, although it feels like it needs more compression. Just a tad bit. I'd also ease the gain off a bit. A lot of the perceived 'distortion' is actually due to multi-tracking and the final stages in mastering (generally), so when your just sitting there jamming it might sound a bit 'dry', but once you double, or quad track it, mix it in, get your drums, bass and everything going - then do your final eq, it will sound more distorted than it really is on its own, and this will give it more clarity as well.

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[thefireball]

Pretty close, although it feels like it needs more compression. Just a tad bit. I'd also ease the gain off a bit. A lot of the perceived 'distortion' is actually due to multi-tracking and the final stages in mastering (generally), so when your just sitting there jamming it might sound a bit 'dry', but once you double, or quad track it, mix it in, get your drums, bass and everything going - then do your final eq, it will sound more distorted than it really is on its own, and this will give it more clarity as well.

Okay, so taking that preset I uploaded, I just inserted a compressor with default settings, and lowered the drive to 25% on the amp.

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[The Uncreator]

Much better I think, definitely heading in the right direction.

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[Saoirse O'Shea]

...A lot of the perceived 'distortion' is actually due to multi-tracking and the final stages in mastering (generally), ...

IMHO mixing not mastering .

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[Ivan Milenkovic]

Pretty close, although it feels like it needs more compression. Just a tad bit. I'd also ease the gain off a bit. A lot of the perceived 'distortion' is actually due to multi-tracking and the final stages in mastering (generally), so when your just sitting there jamming it might sound a bit 'dry', but once you double, or quad track it, mix it in, get your drums, bass and everything going - then do your final eq, it will sound more distorted than it really is on its own, and this will give it more clarity as well.

On that last sentence, I would have to say that adding lots of hi gain tracks will eventually decrease clarity. When quad tracking, and all 4 tracks are hi gain, dynamics will be descreased. In order to retain punch from these tracks, additional pair of crunch tracks is needed. I would also choose to decrease gain on the quad tracks as this is the only way to make it sound more defined. Once you add other instruments as well, it will be a mess.

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[The Uncreator]

IMHO mixing not mastering .

Yes, thanks for catching that - I swear its what I meant!

On that last sentence, I would have to say that adding lots of hi gain tracks will eventually decrease clarity. When quad tracking, and all 4 tracks are hi gain, dynamics will be descreased. In order to retain punch from these tracks, additional pair of crunch tracks is needed. I would also choose to decrease gain on the quad tracks as this is the only way to make it sound more defined. Once you add other instruments as well, it will be a mess.

Definitely right there, thats why I suggested he'd ease off the gain a bit, to avoid that. I didn't necessarily mean a hi-gain track, more so just that it will have that distorted quality while still being a clearer track. Quad tracking is great, but it can quickly turn to a muddy mess. Even just double tracking can present these problems. Personally just my opinion, but I think a clear tone with less gain is going to sound way more heavier after mixing is done, and just better in general.

Alternatively (and aimed at fireball), although its better to get your gain levels sorted prior to recording, if you can get a really good take and still want it, but its just a tad bit distorted - you can always slap a lowpass on your guitars (which I usually do anyway) and cut some of the fuzz off.

I wouldn't suggest going much lower than 13-14k, even then I usually have mine between 16-18k just to clear up any hiss, and that's it. It won't solve any big issues but it can help.

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[Saoirse O'Shea]

A little OT -

Fireball was kind enough to send me an uncompressed wave file of his take. So we've looked at how to get it 'loud' and he's kindly agreed that we can discuss what we did. I'll post this in a separate thread asap .

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[thefireball]

Definitely right there, thats why I suggested he'd ease off the gain a bit, to avoid that. I didn't necessarily mean a hi-gain track, more so just that it will have that distorted quality while still being a clearer track. Quad tracking is great, but it can quickly turn to a muddy mess. Even just double tracking can present these problems. Personally just my opinion, but I think a clear tone with less gain is going to sound way more heavier after mixing is done, and just better in general.

Wait, so this is what I've been doing lately: Record a left track separately. Then record a right track separately. I assume this is double tracking. For this project I did this as well, times two. So there are 4 guitars. I assume this is called quad tracking. I should probably stick to just 2 guitars for now since I'm not very tight yet. It's really hard for me and I end up recording over and over and over, and it's still not tight enough. They were all with different settings btw.

So my question to y'all is: will L and R tracking be enough? Cuz I don't like just recording a stereo track (even if it's I have a A and B tone with different amps) I sounds better with the small variations from the L and R. If pros record quad tracking, it's good and tight, cuz I would never know.

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