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> Visited The "occupy Atlanta" Encampment.
Todd Simpson
post Oct 19 2011, 02:33 PM
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As you guys may have seen on the news there is a "Occupy Wallstreet" movement that has gone global. There is even one here in Atlanta. I went over with a camera and did some interviews for CNN iReport (citizen journalism). It's pretty wild over there. Here are some pics and a strange vid. No P.A. system, everything has to be spoken and repeated by the audience.

Some Pics
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1...mp;l=a621699204

Strange Vid with "call and response" model of speaking.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/primalscene/6258326429/

Anybody else go to one of these?

Todd


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Daniel Realpe
post Oct 19 2011, 05:24 PM
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wow, that's pretty impressive. I hope there would be a good outcome out of all this.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 19 2011, 06:38 PM
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AFAIK Todd the 'Occupy Wall Street' (and the UK version) draws inspiration from the Indignados demonstrations and rallys held in Spain this Spring and Summer. One of those ralllies occupied a main square in Madrid for over 1 week. A more local one occupied the central plaza in Ronda for 2 weeks.

My 11 yr old daughter went to one of the Indignados rallies in Cadiz back in June/July. She had a great day not least because it all end up in a beach party smile.gif , sadly rallies in the UK tend to end a little differently.


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Mudbone
post Oct 20 2011, 06:07 AM
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One just started in Charlotte and I plan on going to it soon. I hope more people go to it, it sometimes seems like people in this city don't care or know about anything that matters. The world could be on fire and they'd just be sitting around twiddling their thumbs.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 20 2011, 05:28 PM
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If only these would happen in my country with some result...usually people go out on the streets and go home with their tails between their legs..


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Mudbone
post Oct 21 2011, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 20 2011, 12:28 PM) *
If only these would happen in my country with some result...usually people go out on the streets and go home with their tails between their legs..


If I remember correctly, I believe your fellow countrymen showed their former dictator, Nicolae Ceaușescu, who's boss. Maybe since then they changed their ways, you know better than I do biggrin.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution_of_1989


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 22 2011, 07:39 AM
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I really do hope the "Occupy" movement continues and that something positive comes from it. So many people are a bit fed up and stumped on what to do about it. These rallies are springing up all over the globe now. It's great to see people getting involved and trying to make a difference. It's still really, really early so the entire movement is still trying to figure out what it's al about.

I"m going back next week to talk more and take more video for a CNN iReport I'm working on .


QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 19 2011, 01:38 PM) *
AFAIK Todd the 'Occupy Wall Street' (and the UK version) draws inspiration from the Indignados demonstrations and rallys held in Spain this Spring and Summer. One of those ralllies occupied a main square in Madrid for over 1 week. A more local one occupied the central plaza in Ronda for 2 weeks.

My 11 yr old daughter went to one of the Indignados rallies in Cadiz back in June/July. She had a great day not least because it all end up in a beach party smile.gif , sadly rallies in the UK tend to end a little differently.



If that's the case, I haven't heard so until now, but either way I"m glad it's happening smile.gif So far the prevailing mythos about the "occupy" movement in the states seems to be attributed to an obscure blog post that led to an upsurge of angry folks taking to the streets. Heres a link to an article about it on NPR (national public radio)

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/20/141530025/oc...t-to-a-movement

But who knows? It well all be taken from the folks in Madrid and repackaged/repurposed by the media and ended up as it is.

Attached Image

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 22 2011, 07:40 AM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 22 2011, 10:27 AM
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There's seems to be increasing momentum behind the various 1% movements and they're picking up increasing media coverage so I think you're right Todd.

FWIW Here's some info on Indignados in English smile.gif .

Sorry the rest are in Spanish but hopefully people can get the idea of what's being said.

There have been a series of articles on Occupy Wallstreet a while back in El Pais (Spanish national newspaper) and they suggested that Occupy Wallstreet had its origin in Indignados. Here's one. , here's another, and here's one wrt 15 October.

This is an early one about the origins of 15M/Indignados in Spain. El Pais have a lot of articles on 15M/Indignados archived smile.gif . They do also do an international English language on line edition which may have some translations but I've not checked.

There's an informative book called 'No nos representan' by Pilar Velasco that sets out what 15M/Indignados stand for.


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jstcrsn
post Oct 22 2011, 08:28 PM
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it seems to me to be pointless
everyone there ,is there for a different reason that seems to contradict the reasons that other protesters are protesting
has anyone outlined the reasons ?
or are they protesting for protesting's sake( because they are upset)


or are they there just for the drugs and the public sex

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Oct 22 2011, 08:43 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Oct 22 2011, 09:37 PM
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It's great to see so many groups in so many languages all around the world speaking up and saying "enough". Thanks for the link. smile.gif I didn't think the movement as a whole would last more than a few days but it seems to be growing not shrinking. It's cool to see democracy taking such a grass roots form.

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2011, 05:27 AM) *
There's seems to be increasing momentum behind the various 1% movements and they're picking up increasing media coverage so I think you're right Todd.

FWIW Here's some info on Indignados in English smile.gif .

Sorry the rest are in Spanish but hopefully people can get the idea of what's being said.

There have been a series of articles on Occupy Wallstreet a while back in El Pais (Spanish national newspaper) and they suggested that Occupy Wallstreet had its origin in Indignados. Here's one. , here's another, and here's one wrt 15 October.

This is an early one about the origins of 15M/Indignados in Spain. El Pais have a lot of articles on 15M/Indignados archived smile.gif . They do also do an international English language on line edition which may have some translations but I've not checked.

There's an informative book called 'No nos representan' by Pilar Velasco that sets out what 15M/Indignados stand for.



Well it's only been alive for a couple of weeks as a "movement" here in the states. At this point, folks are just identifying themselves and each other really. It's almost formless but that will come as it moves forward. Eventually, leaders will arise to speak for the groups I'm guessing.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Oct 22 2011, 03:28 PM) *
it seems to me to be pointless
everyone there ,is there for a different reason that seems to contradict the reasons that other protesters are protesting
has anyone outlined the reasons ?
or are they protesting for protesting's sake( because they are upset)


or are they there just for the drugs and the public sex



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 22 2011, 10:36 PM
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I'm not even sure why there has to be form anyway - seriously, I'm not being facitious smile.gif .

That there are so many with a general interest to say, as Todd does, 'Enough' says a lot to me, and perhaps that is more than sufficient. Whether there is sufficient time available for a significant world wide social movement is another matter.

When I teach Ethics (with a capital E as opposed to morality with a small 'm') one early statement from me is that we have morals in modern society but no Ethics. As Thatcher opined, there is no such thing as society (any more largely thanks to her). Taking her at her word everything has become an empty, vacuous, self-serving system. Without a social system there arguably is no form anyway: that we hold on to a notion of form rather betrays a human need but not one that is neccessarily right, or which has depth and substance. Look around and what do we see in the media - American Idol, X Factor, Pop Idol. Children can name the latest American Idol contestant but can't remember any recent history. Form and decay; surface and no depth (as Shusterman -sp?- argues).

An issue with modern politics is that of form rather than what we could term a formless, generalised interest. Form implies a coalescence around a common ground. Why does this need to be true rather than just generalised disquiet; why do the general populaion have to justify their concerns rather than the minority in control justify theirs? In a hegemonic system the common ground is set by those in control in a game that we can never win so why do I need to even play that game?

How many billions of dollars have now been spent propping up the world financial houses? How many business and factories have gone bankrupt since? How many people have lost their jobs and been driven in to poverty as a consequence? We try to hold on to form when there is no substance and at what cost?

Further, society should surely be about a common good if we wish to talk about form. There is a comment from John Champaign in his book 'The ethics of marginality' concerning what he terms 'the hierarchy of the oppressed': here the state divides the common population by arguing that the mass has no form because we all have diverse needs. All these diverse needs then need to be managed sequentially so just wait your turn. Women have, at least in the UK, waited nearly a century for equal rights: they still don't have equality. As they are close to, or at the top of, the hierarchy of the oppressed how long would someone who is very, very disenfranshised have to wait? Modernity is not premised upon a common good and the rights of the many but upon the wants of a very small minority. If that is form it is a very distorted one, certainly not what the Greeks would have referred to as a trancendental.

A rather depressed Foucault argued that modern society has already reached the end of its lot: all we do now is shuffle the deck chairs on (an Hegelian) Titanic as it sinks. There is no fundamental change only a rearrangement. What is necessary, IMHO, is not a rearrangement, and therefore repeation, of the current system but something fundamentally different. If that requires something formless than that's great IMHO smile.gif .

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jstcrsn
post Oct 22 2011, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2011, 10:36 PM) *
I'm not even sure why there has to be form anyway - seriously, I'm not being facitious smile.gif .

That there are so many with a general interest to say, as Todd does, 'Enough' says a lot to me, and perhaps that is more than sufficient. Whether there is sufficient time available for a significant world wide social movement is another matter.

When I teach Ethics (with a capital E as opposed to morality with a small 'm') one early statement from me is that we have morals in modern society but no Ethics. As Thatcher opined, there is no such thing as society (any more largely thanks to her). Taking her at her word everything has become an empty, vacuous, self-serving system. Without a social system there arguably is no form anyway: that we hold on to a notion of form rather betrays a human need but not one that is neccessarily right, or which has depth and substance. Look around and what do we see in the media - American Idol, X Factor, Pop Idol. Children can name the latest American Idol contestant but can't remember any recent history. Form and decay; surface and no depth (as Shusterman -sp?- argues).

An issue with modern politics is that of form rather than what we could term a formless, generalised interest. Form implies a coalescence around a common ground. Why does this need to be true rather than just generalised disquiet; why do the general populaion have to justify their concerns rather than the minority in control justify theirs? In a hegemonic system the common ground is set by those in control in a game that we can never win so why do I need to even play that game?

How many billions of dollars have now been spent propping up the world financial houses? How many business and factories have gone bankrupt since? How many people have lost their jobs and been driven in to poverty as a consequence? We try to hold on to form when there is no substance and at what cost?

Further, society should surely be about a common good if we wish to talk about form. There is a comment from John Champaign in his book 'The ethics of marginality' concerning what he terms 'the hierarchy of the oppressed': here the state divides the common population by arguing that the mass has no form because we all have diverse needs. All these diverse needs then need to be managed sequentially so just wait your turn. Women have, at least in the UK, waited nearly a century for equal rights: they still don't have equality. As they are close to, or at the top of, the hierarchy of the oppressed how long would someone who is very, very disenfranshised have to wait? Modernity is not premised upon a common good and the rights of the many but upon the wants of a very small minority. If that is form it is a very distorted one, certainly not what the Greeks would have referred to as a trancendental.

A rather depressed Foucault argued that modern society has already reached the end of its lot: all we do now is shuffle the deck chairs on (an Hegelian) Titanic as it sinks. There is no fundamental change only a rearrangement. What is necessary, IMHO, is not a rearrangement, and therefore repeation, of the current system but something fundamentally different. If that requires something formless than that's great IMHO smile.gif .

All that is solid melts in to air.an

we can not even come to terms, like Ethics tongue.gif or morality, if we can't find common ground on these issues ,how can we find common ground on anything
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 22 2011, 10:58 PM
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Well Ethics (with a capital E) was supposed to be a common ground for the ancient Greeks as it was a transcendental wink.gif smile.gif .

That we have lost it, or a common ground generally, is arguably a failure of modernity; alternatively Ethics, or a common ground, was just a false hope. The former perhaps offers light at the end of the tunnel; the other is rather bleak wink.gif .

(I tend to favour the idea of formlessness so I don't think much of a common ground TBH. Teach Ethics, yes, believe in transcendentals, no.)

Personally I tend to agree with Kierkegaard/Sartre/Bataille to some extent here - and to paraphrase - live your live in the knowledge that it means nothing.

That's why I did philosophy rather than Politics/Econimics/Sociology or Music I guess tongue.gif


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jstcrsn
post Oct 22 2011, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2011, 10:58 PM) *
Well Ethics (with a capital E) was supposed to be a common ground for the ancient Greeks as it was a transcendental wink.gif smile.gif .

That we have lost it, or a common ground generally, is arguably a failure of modernity; alternatively Ethics, or a common ground, was just a false hope. The former perhaps offers light at the end of the tunnel; the other is rather bleak wink.gif .

(I tend to favour the idea of formlessness so I don't think much of a common ground TBH. Teach Ethics, yes, believe in transcendentals, no.)

Personally I tend to agree with Kierkegaard/Sartre/Bataille to some extent here - and to paraphrase - live your live in the knowledge that it means nothing.

That's why I did philosophy rather than Politics/Econimics/Sociology or Music I guess tongue.gif

so now you are just confusin me with all that edumacation
do we have common ground or not smile.gif
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 23 2011, 11:02 PM
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Well possible common ground is that we probably both think that something is wrong somewhere cool.gif .

What, why and what we might do, well those are different questions wink.gif .

(We also probably would agree that I talk to much biggrin.gif .)


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jstcrsn
post Oct 24 2011, 02:06 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 23 2011, 11:02 PM) *
(We also probably would agree that I talk to much biggrin.gif .)


well ,common ground that you talk too much just might be the starting point to solving the world's problems blink.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Oct 24 2011, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 22 2011, 05:36 PM) *
I'm not even sure why there has to be form anyway - seriously, I'm not being facitious smile.gif .
....
All that is solid melts in to air.


Great post! smile.gif Thanks for that. I have to agree with Tony 100 percent. The critics are all bashing it for it's lack of form, but maybe form isn't the point, or purpose. I've been over to the park several times to talk with these people and video them, hear their stories and find out what motivates them to stay and each one is as different as you can imagine. This movement, (used loosely) does coincide roughly with various things going on planet wide, like the Arab Spring for example. I find it quite heartening to see people rise up and demand justice, fairness, really whatever they are being denied. I've seen so much apathy when things here were going far to well to be real (housing/financial bubble) so seeing actual concern and action is a welcome change.

I think we are due for a bit of change. The people I talk to are starving for just a bit of truth, a tinge of fairness, some return to so much of what we as a country have lost. The striving/money/competition/american idol, etc. has a way of eating away the soul of country. It's sad that's it's taken such a decline to bring this about, but sometimes that's what it takes.

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Oct 24 2011, 09:16 PM


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jstcrsn
post Oct 25 2011, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 24 2011, 09:13 PM) *
Great post! smile.gif I think we are due for a bit of change.



Not to make anyone mad , but didn't he get elected runing on change you can believe in

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 24 2011, 09:13 PM) *
Great post! smile.gif I think we are due for a bit of change.



Not to make anyone mad , but didn't he get elected runing on change you can believe in
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