Bb7b9 Chord Theory, What scale is this chord based on?
Nihilist1
Nov 24 2011, 07:40 AM
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Could someone kindly tell me what scale is this chord based on? I looked at the actual shape, and I know the notes involved, but maybe I am missing something, as I do not know what scale helps to give this chord its shape.

Thank You!

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Cosmin Lupu
Nov 24 2011, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Nov 24 2011, 06:40 AM) *
Could someone kindly tell me what scale is this chord based on? I looked at the actual shape, and I know the notes involved, but maybe I am missing something, as I do not know what scale helps to give this chord its shape.

Thank You!


Good morning mate!

The 7b9 chord can be combined with the Phrygian Dominant scale -> 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7 8

it will have that oriental sound because of the flat second - look it up, it's very popular biggrin.gif

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Ivan Milenkovic
Nov 24 2011, 11:04 AM
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If we presume that "Bb7b9" is from phrygian-dominant scale, we would have to presume that it has both major third and perfect fifth, which is a bit unclear from the description of the chord. Phrygian-dominant is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale. Harmonic minor scale also features 7 modes (like regular minor scale), and also features 7 chords, build from those modes.

For example A harmonic minor, and the set of 7th chords for it:

CODE
Chord               Notes               Formula

Am(maj7)               A, C, E, G#        1-b3-b-7
Bø                     B, D, F, A         1-b3-b5-b7
C7(#5)                 C, E, G#, B        1-3-#5-7
Dm7                    D, F, A, C         1-b3-5-b7
E7                     E, G#, B, D        1-3-5-b7
F7                     F, A, C, E         1-3-5-7
G#o                    G#, B, D, F        1-b3-b5-bb7


And here's the pattern:



If you take a look at the E-F relation, you'll see it's minor 9th interval, which brings us to "b7b9" chord or shortly: E7b9

However, since there is no description for third and fifth, we could easily fit the Bdiminished chord into this category too, since it also features b7b9 notes.

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This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Nov 24 2011, 11:05 AM


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Daniel Realpe
Nov 24 2011, 06:22 PM
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I thought he meant Bb

but yeah that's correct if it's B with a b7 and a b9

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Nihilist1
Nov 24 2011, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Nov 24 2011, 10:04 AM) *
If we presume that "Bb7b9" is from phrygian-dominant scale, we would have to presume that it has both major third and perfect fifth, which is a bit unclear from the description of the chord. Phrygian-dominant is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale. Harmonic minor scale also features 7 modes (like regular minor scale), and also features 7 chords, build from those modes.

For example A harmonic minor, and the set of 7th chords for it:

CODE
Chord               Notes               Formula

Am(maj7)               A, C, E, G#        1-b3-b-7
Bø                     B, D, F, A         1-b3-b5-b7
C7(#5)                 C, E, G#, B        1-3-#5-7
Dm7                    D, F, A, C         1-b3-5-b7
E7                     E, G#, B, D        1-3-5-b7
F7                     F, A, C, E         1-3-5-7
G#o                    G#, B, D, F        1-b3-b5-bb7


And here's the pattern:



If you take a look at the E-F relation, you'll see it's minor 9th interval, which brings us to "b7b9" chord or shortly: E7b9

However, since there is no description for third and fifth, we could easily fit the Bdiminished chord into this category too, since it also features b7b9 notes.


Thank you very much Ivan! Now I can continue studying "My Funny Valentine"

QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Nov 24 2011, 05:22 PM) *
I thought he meant Bb

but yeah that's correct if it's B with a b7 and a b9


I am sorry for the confusion. I did mean B b7 b9.

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Ivan Milenkovic
Nov 24 2011, 09:54 PM
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Yes, I saw the Bb7b9, but it sounded a bit confusing without the third or fifth displayed.

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Nihilist1
Nov 25 2011, 02:27 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Nov 24 2011, 08:54 PM) *
Yes, I saw the Bb7b9, but it sounded a bit confusing without the third or fifth displayed.


Do you think you could explain how the scale(mode) would possibly fit in the key of Eb Major/C minor, if the chord in question is Bdim?

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Ivan Milenkovic
Nov 25 2011, 11:13 AM
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There's no B note in Eb key, here's the pattern (notes are with #, so D# should be Eb here):



B dim is from C major key.

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Nihilist1
Nov 25 2011, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Nov 25 2011, 10:13 AM) *
There's no B note in Eb key, here's the pattern (notes are with #, so D# should be Eb here):



B dim is from C major key.


Thank you for the help Ivan.

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