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> Cites, Taking Our Precious Instruments
Nihilist1
post Dec 2 2011, 03:13 AM
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I move across the border a lot. My Fiancee is studying in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada,(her family is from the region) and I am from California. It irritates me to think that I may lose one of my precious guitars due to CITES, if I don't know all of the flora that go into my instrument, but I have noticed that I cannot really find out where every little scrap on my guitar came from. Moreover, how does the community here think this going to effect international touring by some musicians that absolutely love their vintage gear? I for one am not pleased, as the thought that one of my cherished instruments I own(or one day will own) may not have the ability to make it across the border someday. How does this thought affect some of others here at GMC? Is there anyone else here who travels outside of their home country often, only to be hassled by customs on their way back in?

CITES is what allowed the USF&WS to raid Gibson due to "illegally" harvested wood. Among other companies having precious instruments taken from them.


EDIT: I left out some important details.

This post has been edited by Nihilist1: Dec 2 2011, 03:15 AM


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 2 2011, 10:14 AM
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Oh so you can not exit the country with an instrument? There is no way to report the instrument when exiting you country so that you don't have problems on re-entry?


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Nihilist1
post Dec 2 2011, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Dec 2 2011, 09:14 AM) *
Oh so you can not exit the country with an instrument? There is no way to report the instrument when exiting you country so that you don't have problems on re-entry?


There is, but some instruments you cannot take at all. If one of your inlays even looks like white abalone the TSA is allowed to take it. I am afraid to take my Ibanez Artcore for that reason.


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Ben Higgins
post Dec 2 2011, 11:32 AM
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I was not aware of this. I guess the answer is just not to risk it and take another instrument. If you're a big, rich band it shouldn't be a problem but could be a pain in the butt if you're not.


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Nihilist1
post Dec 2 2011, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Dec 2 2011, 10:32 AM) *
I was not aware of this. I guess the answer is just not to risk it and take another instrument. If you're a big, rich band it shouldn't be a problem but could be a pain in the butt if you're not.


Agreed. It is just annoying you know? We shouldn't have to worry about that. When Gibson's factory was raided, they even took John Lennon's guitar! What threat did that pose? It was in the factory museum after all! It wasn't as if anyone was going to sell it.


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Daniel Realpe
post Dec 2 2011, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Dec 2 2011, 12:36 PM) *
Agreed. It is just annoying you know? We shouldn't have to worry about that. When Gibson's factory was raided, they even took John Lennon's guitar! What threat did that pose? It was in the factory museum after all! It wasn't as if anyone was going to sell it.

That could become a big problem for the reasons you mentioned, what if I want to tour, I need my instrument!


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Sollesnes
post Dec 2 2011, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Dec 2 2011, 03:16 PM) *
That could become a big problem for the reasons you mentioned, what if I want to tour, I need my instrument!


Use instruments that doesnt have threatened woods and materials? There are rules for a reason, and gibson are a notorious company when it comes to environment. You dont need rare materials or wood in your guitar to sound good, just like you dont need to eat whale or turtle meat to not go hungry.

Environment over instruments any day.

This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Dec 2 2011, 04:13 PM
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Alex Feather
post Dec 2 2011, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Dec 2 2011, 02:13 AM) *
I move across the border a lot. My Fiancee is studying in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada,(her family is from the region) and I am from California. It irritates me to think that I may lose one of my precious guitars due to CITES, if I don't know all of the flora that go into my instrument, but I have noticed that I cannot really find out where every little scrap on my guitar came from. Moreover, how does the community here think this going to effect international touring by some musicians that absolutely love their vintage gear? I for one am not pleased, as the thought that one of my cherished instruments I own(or one day will own) may not have the ability to make it across the border someday. How does this thought affect some of others here at GMC? Is there anyone else here who travels outside of their home country often, only to be hassled by customs on their way back in?

CITES is what allowed the USF&WS to raid Gibson due to "illegally" harvested wood. Among other companies having precious instruments taken from them.


EDIT: I left out some important details.

Hello! It depends how you are traveling if you go by plane take it on board with you
If you are on the bus just have a hardshell case and you will be fine
I have been touring for the last 10 years and took a lot of different instruments on the road with me
never had a problem thank God! I am taking my hollow body Tom Anderson telecaster everywhere I go and so far it's been surviving!
But there is always a risk so if you are worried about your guitar just get something cheap that you don't really care about as much.
About the weather I have been going from Wyoming to Florida in winter the temperature change was at least 30 Fahrenheit if not more and all my gear was fine. The only thing I don't like about weather change is humidity so I am trying to keep my guitar in a hardshell case as much as I can


About the customs I have been traveling to Canada (by bus) and nobody cared what wood my guitar made with. We had to pay taxes for the gear and merchandise when we went and I think this is something that you should check with Canada
Good luck!


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Nihilist1
post Dec 2 2011, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (Sollesnes @ Dec 2 2011, 03:07 PM) *
Use instruments that doesnt have threatened woods and materials? There are rules for a reason, and gibson are a notorious company when it comes to environment. You dont need rare materials or wood in your guitar to sound good, just like you dont need to eat whale or turtle meat to not go hungry.

Environment over instruments any day.


I agree with you Sollesnes. I don't care to user anything that is endangered, etc. However, There was an instance recently where a man had his Taylor taken. When he tried to appeal the folks at US Fish and Wildlife, they said they had tested it and they found white abalone. The President of Taylor and the people who make their inlays both made an appeal. Neither company has ever used White abalone and they had the documentation to prove it. However, the US Fish and Wildlife department is keeping the lawsuit ongoing. So I fail to see how it is just about preserving wildlife in this case. That just seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Here is a slightly related article.

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/m...ervation-treaty

This post has been edited by Nihilist1: Dec 2 2011, 09:24 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 2 2011, 10:53 PM
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First time I hear about this, what a ridiculous law. I mean, OK, if materials in question shouldn't be used - then ban them from production, or sue/close factories. It's wrong to make money and destroy nature!

On the other hand, why take the guitar our of a hand of a customer? It's not theirs fault, nobody is forcing factories to use abalone or anything. I understand if customer asks for a custom guitar and asks for specific rare material that is banned, then it would be OK to confiscate.


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Sinisa Cekic
post Dec 2 2011, 11:25 PM
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What then I can say?? My Ibanez J custom was made in series of only 12 guitars. I have visited many countries but never had a single problem .


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Sollesnes
post Dec 3 2011, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE
On the other hand, why take the guitar our of a hand of a customer? It's not theirs fault, nobody is forcing factories to use abalone or anything. I understand if customer asks for a custom guitar and asks for specific rare material that is banned, then it would be OK to confiscate.


QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Dec 2 2011, 09:23 PM) *
I agree with you Sollesnes. I don't care to user anything that is endangered, etc. However, There was an instance recently where a man had his Taylor taken. When he tried to appeal the folks at US Fish and Wildlife, they said they had tested it and they found white abalone. The President of Taylor and the people who make their inlays both made an appeal. Neither company has ever used White abalone and they had the documentation to prove it. However, the US Fish and Wildlife department is keeping the lawsuit ongoing. So I fail to see how it is just about preserving wildlife in this case. That just seems absolutely ridiculous to me.


Thats sad and stupid of course, but from the wildlifes point of view, they found white abalone- and one of the ways to stop factories from using rare materials is by stopping the demand for it. In the case where the puchaser could have no idea it contain that, then of course it is tragic. But also if you buy stolen goods, you get nothing in return, and that is also sad. It just sounds like a tragic story, but I cant make myself put blame in either part in that story, if their tests really did find the material.

This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Dec 3 2011, 12:57 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Dec 3 2011, 02:58 AM
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WOW! That's just crazy! Can't have rare wood in guitars? Of all the things to legislate, they pick on guitar players. That's a bit lame.

How about just putting it in storage, or letting a friend hold it, or shipping it to where your going via UPS. I"m sure you can work it out and not have to lose an instrument. I would hope so at least.

QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Dec 2 2011, 05:25 PM) *
What then I can say?? My Ibanez J custom was made in series of only 12 guitars. I have visited many countries but never had a single problem .


Nice! Can you post a pic? I'm a big Ibanez fan wink.gif Which neck? Skunk stripe on it or no?


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Alex Feather
post Dec 24 2011, 04:15 AM
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That's crazy if they can take your instrument though. If they go after the manufacterers, thats one thing, but just some guy who bought a guitar?


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