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> Pentatonic Scales
Tangomouse
post Dec 12 2011, 12:26 AM
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After 8 years of playing and not knowing any theory i decided it was time to start learning some scales, I started with the A minor pentatonic and now know all 5 positions.... Something has just hit me while watching sinisa's mixed pentatonic lesson, what hit me was Sinisa's C major pentatonic scale, which is the same as the A minor position 1 5th fet, So If I'm correct if i start on a different root note it then become that root's note scale, like if i started on D it would be a D pentatonic scale............. am i right?????

Sorry if the question seems a little dumb.
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dark dude
post Dec 12 2011, 01:07 AM
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Yeah, if you choose E as your root note when using the minor pentatonic shapes, you'll be playing E minor pentatonic. If you choose F# as your root note when using the minor pentatonic, you'll be playing F# minor pentatonic, and so on smile.gif

I'm not 100% sure if that's what you were asking about, so let me know if that's the case.


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Tangomouse
post Dec 12 2011, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE (dark dude @ Dec 12 2011, 12:07 AM) *
Yeah, if you choose E as your root note when using the minor pentatonic shapes, you'll be playing E minor pentatonic. If you choose F# as your root note when using the minor pentatonic, you'll be playing F# minor pentatonic, and so on smile.gif

I'm not 100% sure if that's what you were asking about, so let me know if that's the case.


Yes exactly that!.. but the same box patten.



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Sinisa Cekic
post Dec 12 2011, 01:28 AM
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A minor natural scale is a same as C major natural scale, thus A minor pentatonic and C major pentatonic are the same - the concept known as relative key - "Relative keys are major and minor scales that share the same key signature. Relative scales consist of the same exact notes. What matters is which note begins the scale; a minor scale begins on the sixth note of its relative major".
I'll try to answer if I understand the question :
Pentatonic boxes are universal and belong to all tones. If you go to first pentatonic box of D (root)-then yes, you playing D minor pentatonic scale (or F major pentatonic scale smile.gif ).


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Tangomouse
post Dec 12 2011, 01:37 AM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Dec 12 2011, 12:28 AM) *
A minor natural scale is a same as C major natural scale, thus A minor pentatonic and C major pentatonic are the same - the concept known as relative key - "Relative keys are major and minor scales that share the same key signature. Relative scales consist of the same exact notes. What matters is which note begins the scale; a minor scale begins on the sixth note of its relative major".
I'll try to answer if I understand the question :
Pentatonic boxes are universal and belong to all tones. If you go to first pentatonic box of D (root)-then yes, you playing D minor pentatonic scale (or F major pentatonic scale smile.gif ).



Thanks it's cleared that up for me
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Sinisa Cekic
post Dec 12 2011, 01:40 AM
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My pleasure, man wink.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 12 2011, 01:31 PM
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Just as diatonic scales (with 7 notes) have 7 modes (depending what note is the tonic/root), in similar fashion - pentatonic scale has 5 modes, depending on the tonic.

A minor and C major being relative minor and major scales are two standard modes used for naming these scales (patterns). It's important to learn where these tonics are within the pattern, to be able to use the pattern in any logical way! smile.gif


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Daniel Realpe
post Dec 12 2011, 03:23 PM
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yeah, this relization might seem basic and dumb, but it's very very useful and important even for advanced players. So you are on the right path,

One thing I've learned about music theory is that little things like this in theory can have a very big impact in regards of sound. In this example, an A minor pentatonic sounds so different to the C major pentatonic even though they use the same notes, why is this? because of the context!


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cmonster85
post Dec 13 2011, 02:26 PM
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Very informative discussion! I have some questions-

How do you match which scale you are going to play, with the chord progression while you are improvising?

Say for eg. I was playing some lead guitar over C, AM, F, G,......Once I got to F , do I start playing an F major scale? Or keep playing in a C major scale and start it on an F note? And once i figure out how to match the scales to the chords can I apply this to blues or jazz chords?

I'm sure this has been covered before, but there are alot of forum posts out there to go through. tongue.gif

Thanks in advance.

Chris.


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Tangomouse
post Dec 13 2011, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE (cmonster85 @ Dec 13 2011, 01:26 PM) *
Very informative discussion! I have some questions-

How do you match which scale you are going to play, with the chord progression while you are improvising?

Say for eg. I was playing some lead guitar over C, AM, F, G,......Once I got to F , do I start playing an F major scale? Or keep playing in a C major scale and start it on an F note? And once i figure out how to match the scales to the chords can I apply this to blues or jazz chords?

I'm sure this has been covered before, but there are alot of forum posts out there to go through. tongue.gif

Thanks in advance.

Chris.


Maybe this could help you https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Improvising-Workshop-1/
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dark dude
post Dec 13 2011, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (cmonster85 @ Dec 13 2011, 01:26 PM) *
Very informative discussion! I have some questions-

How do you match which scale you are going to play, with the chord progression while you are improvising?

Say for eg. I was playing some lead guitar over C, AM, F, G,......Once I got to F , do I start playing an F major scale? Or keep playing in a C major scale and start it on an F note? And once i figure out how to match the scales to the chords can I apply this to blues or jazz chords?

I'm sure this has been covered before, but there are alot of forum posts out there to go through. tongue.gif

Thanks in advance.

Chris.

A good way to understand these things is by writing everything out, it's simple:

C major scale: c d e f g a b c

C, A minor, F and G chords (triads) :

c e g
a c e
f a c
g b d

F major scale: f g a Bb c d e f

If you want a scale to match the chord that's playing, you'll want the chord's notes to appear in that scale. All 4 triads above (C, A minor, F and G) have all their notes in C major, so you can play C major over all of them.

You asked whether you can change the scale to F major on the F triad, and (after checking whether the notes in F major are in the F triad..) you can! The F triad has the notes F, A and C, and these all appear in the scale of F major. In fact, you could change the scale for each chord in the progression if you wanted to (Note: The next chord, G, has a B natural in it, while the F major scale has a B flat, so, the F major scale and G chord would clash due to that second note of the G chord).

You can apply this to blues and jazz chords (or any chords!), just look at the relationship between the notes in the scale you want to play, and the notes in the chords that are being played.

This post has been edited by dark dude: Dec 13 2011, 06:27 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 13 2011, 11:23 PM
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Golden rule of using pentatonic scales in improvising is this:

1. If a major chord starts, use it's major pentatonic scale
2. If a minor chord starts, use it's minor pentatonic scale

This way, you will never go out of key, because pentatonic scales are universal.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 14 2011, 12:57 AM
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Bingo! smile.gif EG. If you put your first finger, on the first string, 5th Fret, and play A Pentatonic. Then just move up one fret and play the same scale, zippy doo da you are now playing in the key of A#. Plant your finger on the root note on the E string and play a given scale, and your "soloing" in that key so to speak.

With theory, folks can make this process extremely complex. Sometimes, too complex. Your understanding will evolve as you go but yeah. You got it smile.gif



QUOTE (Tangomouse @ Dec 11 2011, 06:26 PM) *
After 8 years of playing and not knowing any theory i decided it was time to start learning some scales, I started with the A minor pentatonic and now know all 5 positions.... Something has just hit me while watching sinisa's mixed pentatonic lesson, what hit me was Sinisa's C major pentatonic scale, which is the same as the A minor position 1 5th fet, So If I'm correct if i start on a different root note it then become that root's note scale, like if i started on D it would be a D pentatonic scale............. am i right?????

Sorry if the question seems a little dumb.



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Alex Feather
post Dec 14 2011, 04:36 AM
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If you want to have some fun, try super-imposing pentatonics. If you're playing over a C major chord, play E minor pentatonic. It gives you some great sounding notes: E (the major 3rd of C), G (the 5th), A (the 6th), B (the major 7) and D (the 9th).

This works any time you're playing over a 1 chord, or the chord that is the key of the song. The above example was for the key of C. This may be a little confusing for a beginner. Let me know if I should clarify.


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cmonster85
post Dec 14 2011, 12:23 PM
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Great info! This is going to help alot!, I've learnt my chords, pentatonic box or caged positions, modes, root notes, arpeggios, built up my speed, various licks in each of the boxes, different songs and their solos. But when it came to putting it all together and improvising over different chord progressions I kept getting lost or hitting an off note here and there. This is a great relief. It feels good to hit all the right notes! biggrin.gif

Thanks everyone!


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 14 2011, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (cmonster85 @ Dec 14 2011, 12:23 PM) *
Great info! This is going to help alot!, I've learnt my chords, pentatonic box or caged positions, modes, root notes, arpeggios, built up my speed, various licks in each of the boxes, different songs and their solos. But when it came to putting it all together and improvising over different chord progressions I kept getting lost or hitting an off note here and there. This is a great relief. It feels good to hit all the right notes! biggrin.gif

Thanks everyone!


This is mostly due to the fact that you learned the patterns, but not the notes and intervals themselves. Try working a bit more on those (and focus on practicing over backing tracks) and you will get there.


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cmonster85
post Dec 14 2011, 01:41 PM
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Excellent, this has been bugging me for a while. Thanks Ivan cool.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 15 2011, 05:06 PM
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Cheers mate.


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