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> Timing, Struggling with rushing the rhythm
Daniel Realpe
post Jan 9 2012, 04:46 PM
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I'd say the rushing and speeding up a bit in comparison with the backing tracks or band is one the most common sticking points for not only beginners but also for musicians who have been playing for a while,

I still struggle with that a bit, what I do is, really feel that you hold back the tempo in your body, I kind of do it at feel...Because if I really let myself go with the music I've noticed I tend to rush a bit by default, but when I consciously hold back the tempo intentionally against the beat, I "magically" lock-in much better and sound tighter,

I really recommend you experiment with that,

Any recommendations or thoughts on the subject?


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 9 2012, 06:02 PM
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That's an interesting topic. I didn't had problems rushing the beat, but it's important for me to always keep the "inner" beat going, so I don't loose my ground. Next to that, it happens that I have very good sense for tempo, I can really count it well, but that creates other problems: I really dislike hearing someone changing tempo even by little (specially the drummer hehe) biggrin.gif


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Alex Feather
post Jan 9 2012, 06:19 PM
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Great advice! I think it's a very good idea to concentrate on timing while you are playing until it becomes a natural thing! Also there are three different ways to play with a click
1) on the beat
2) behind the beat
3) ahead of the beat


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superize
post Jan 9 2012, 10:05 PM
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I try to rely on my inner clock but its really hard sometime when you noticed that for example the drummer is rushing the tempo. this is the problem we have in my band. Me the other guitarist and the bass player all have very good sense of rhythm but the drummer always rushing and increase the tempo so we have to really hold back so we don't rush more and the tempo goes way way up


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thefireball
post Jan 10 2012, 05:09 AM
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I have the trouble with rushing. Hopefully it will work out with you guys Isac. smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 10 2012, 05:25 AM
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Rushing and lagging are common especially when playing live. Working around it is tough but doable smile.gif I've played so long with a metronome that I can actually hear one running in my head even when it's not on. Tick, tick, tick, tick, it's just always there when I"m playing. It started when I took some classical lessons and my instructor forced me to use one during lessons. After a while I embraced it and it really helped. Once you have a steady tick in your head, it's much easier to stay on measure.


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Alex Feather
post Jan 10 2012, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Jan 9 2012, 03:46 PM) *
I'd say the rushing and speeding up a bit in comparison with the backing tracks or band is one the most common sticking points for not only beginners but also for musicians who have been playing for a while,

I still struggle with that a bit, what I do is, really feel that you hold back the tempo in your body, I kind of do it at feel...Because if I really let myself go with the music I've noticed I tend to rush a bit by default, but when I consciously hold back the tempo intentionally against the beat, I "magically" lock-in much better and sound tighter,

I really recommend you experiment with that,

Any recommendations or thoughts on the subject?

There is a really good exercise! Abe Laboriel told me about it and it CHANGED MY LIFE!!!!
It's very simple you will need the cheapest drum sticks
Set the metronome at the comfortable tempo and try to cover the click hitting sticks against each other (like counting in)!
Covering means you don't hear metronome at all it will seem like it disappeared
It will help you 100% slower you will set your tempo harder it will get!
I hope I explained it right smile.gif Let me know if you have any questions!


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 11 2012, 11:47 AM
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I had trouble rushing back in 2004-2005 because I had a very rushing drummer and I could never rely on him - this situation created a sensation of timing uncertainty which was there most often than not sad.gif

I eventually started working with very good and steady drummers which combined with a lot of metronome and backing track work, provided a steady groove in my veins biggrin.gif


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thefireball
post Jan 11 2012, 04:34 PM
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This rushing drummer thing reminds me of a story.

Long, long ago..far away... biggrin.gif Just kidding...

I once visited my nearby guitar store (by nearby I mean one hour away), and they were hosting a "camp" of some kind that gets kids used to being in a band. There was a lead singer and everything. I was really impressed by the talent. But what really impressed me was a little kid on the drums. Everybody else would get off time every now and then, but the kid drummer would stay true to the tempo. ohmy.gif I was amazed and grinning ear to ear with excitement for these kids. They have so much to look forward to. They can be big!



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Daniel Realpe
post Jan 11 2012, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Alex Feather @ Jan 9 2012, 12:19 PM) *
Great advice! I think it's a very good idea to concentrate on timing while you are playing until it becomes a natural thing! Also there are three different ways to play with a click
1) on the beat
2) behind the beat
3) ahead of the beat

it's great to hear all your opinions on this,

Regarding what you say Alex, I've heard about those disctintions and they definitely apply, but on a subtle level, the inner metronome sometims rushes by default, and that's when you really have pay attention and see if you are doing it,

Besides that, I heard about this jazz legend, I can't remember the name now, who stated in his experience: "There's only two types of timing, off the beat, and on the beat"

I kind of relate to that, because when I analise the musicians I love, and the performances I love, they are all as tight as they can be, and I think the feeling of behind the beat or ahead of the beat comes from the music itself, but between the musicians, their inner relationship so to speak, they are tight as a rock!

this is humbling biggrin.gif



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maharzan
post Jan 11 2012, 04:59 PM
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Wow, its just been few days I realized just the opposite. If I play normal, when I hear the playback, I feel I am going tad slow than the backing. So, I am practicing to play tad bit faster which is working. I am doubting if that is something to do with latency.. heck there shouldn't be any latency but wait, I need to check. I thought I was playing slow.


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The Uncreator
post Jan 11 2012, 06:01 PM
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When I record I intentionally have many, many different tempos going. The verse might be 152 bpm, then the transition to a solo I will want to have more energy, so I increase the tempo to 161 or something. I do this usually about four or five times in a song, it gives it a live feeling. If I play a chorus twice, the first time might be 156bpm, then near the end I might want a climactic feel, so I will jump it to 172 or something smile.gif

Also, I try never to use any bpm that is divisible by 5 (120, 125, 130, 135). There is something in my head that just tells me it feels to expected, or predictable.
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 11 2012, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Jan 11 2012, 06:01 PM) *
When I record I intentionally have many, many different tempos going. The verse might be 152 bpm, then the transition to a solo I will want to have more energy, so I increase the tempo to 161 or something. I do this usually about four or five times in a song, it gives it a live feeling. If I play a chorus twice, the first time might be 156bpm, then near the end I might want a climactic feel, so I will jump it to 172 or something smile.gif

Also, I try never to use any bpm that is divisible by 5 (120, 125, 130, 135). There is something in my head that just tells me it feels to expected, or predictable.


That is very interesting, didn't thought of that last statement. Gotta try it soon smile.gif


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