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> Alternate Vs Hybrid Picking
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 13 2012, 04:06 PM
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Hey guys!! As I said in another thread I'm working on the lesson Extreme Neoclassical by Muris since the last Tuesday and I would like to share my experience. It's curious but the part that is giving me more trouble at fast tempo are the classical pedal note ideas.. For example the lick at 00:18 of this video...



  F                                              
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
------------------------------------------------|
----13-12-13-10-13----13----13---13----13----13-|
-------------------12----10----9----------------|
------------------------------------12----10----|
--8---------------------------------------------|
------------------------------------------------|


G#dim
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S E
------------------------------------------------|
--------12-10-12-9-12----12---12----12----12----|
----------------------10----9-------------------|
--9------------------------------12----10----9--|
------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------------------------|


I realized that my problem are the outsides picking when I have to cross from string 2 to string 4. So I'm developing some exercises to work on this.

Then I found this video by the player Damjan Pejcinoski and I noted that he uses Hybrid Picking for that parts. I think that it's a really good idea and seems easier for me... check it out.



I really like this technique and I will work in this way... but I also want to use this to improve my outside picking when I'm crossing strings at fast tempos.

I started working at 120 bpm and now I'm reaching 135/140 bpm (excepting the pedal note section). I use to play fast but I've never had check how fast I was.... this piece is sooo fast! My idea is to master it and record my take.. maybe for the REC?? smile.gif



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Dinaga
post Jan 13 2012, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 13 2012, 04:06 PM) *
Hey guys!! As I said in another thread I'm working on the lesson Extreme Neoclassical by Muris since the last Tuesday and I would like to share my experience. It's curious but the part that is giving me more trouble at fast tempo are the classical pedal note ideas.. For example the lick at 00:18 of this video...



  F                                              
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
------------------------------------------------|
----13-12-13-10-13----13----13---13----13----13-|
-------------------12----10----9----------------|
------------------------------------12----10----|
--8---------------------------------------------|
------------------------------------------------|


G#dim
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S E
------------------------------------------------|
--------12-10-12-9-12----12---12----12----12----|
----------------------10----9-------------------|
--9------------------------------12----10----9--|
------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------------------------|


I realized that my problem are the outsides picking when I have to cross from string 2 to string 4. So I'm developing some exercises to work on this.

Then I found this video by the player Damjan Pejcinoski and I noted that he uses Hybrid Picking for that parts. I think that it's a really good idea and seems easier for me... check it out.



I really like this technique and I will work in this way... but I also want to use this to improve my outside picking when I'm crossing strings at fast tempos.

I started working at 120 bpm and now I'm reaching 135/140 bpm (excepting the pedal note section). I use to play fast but I've never had check how fast I was.... this piece is sooo fast! My idea is to master it and record my take.. maybe for the REC?? smile.gif


Yes, record, please! smile.gif
Well, Muris is an alternate picking beast, so why not use different approach if you find it easier and it sounds good? smile.gif


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maharzan
post Jan 13 2012, 04:28 PM
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Damn, I wish I could do this one too. It does help speed picking though. Good Luck Gabriel. Would be great to see your take. smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 13 2012, 04:32 PM
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hey guys! thanks for the words of encouragement! biggrin.gif


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Alex Feather
post Jan 13 2012, 06:31 PM
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This is really cool! Hybrid picking is a tricky technique and I know you have to play four notes per string I really want to master it!


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SirJamsalot
post Jan 13 2012, 06:39 PM
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this lesson scares me biggrin.gif
The video of the guy hybrid picking - I watched the vid full screen and if he's hybrid picking, it's so subtle I wouldn't have even noticed it. his fingers barely moved!

Can't wait to see your take, and more interestingly, the fact that you are posting your experiences as you learn this lesson I find great!! It's good to know the mental process and how you feel about certain parts as you learn it - what is challenging, and how you propose to overcome the hurdles. Thanks for this thread!

Chris

and on a side note: I watched the Muris Lesson and at the end, the chord notations that flashed on the screen went by so fast I had to laugh - it's like you have see the video lesson in slow motion to know what Letters flashed on the screen LOL. laugh.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by SirJamsalot: Jan 13 2012, 06:44 PM


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Ben Higgins
post Jan 13 2012, 07:30 PM
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I've played with that lesson before too and those pedal note licks were evil !

I was just going to find that video of the hybrid picking guy and then I noticed you'd found it anyway wink.gif

If you're already at 135/140 you're still doing an amazing job.. better than most of us mortals cool.gif





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Todd Simpson
post Jan 14 2012, 05:56 AM
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Both Vids are just amazing. Muris is astounding and I"m gonna have to learn this. Wow.!!!!

I"m a serious fan of "Hybrid Picking" and use it pretty much all the time. I've found that ascending bits work more efficiently on the hand (IMHO) with Economic Picking and descending bits work more efficiently on the hand (again IMHO) using Alternate Picking. Taking advantage of the natural motion of the hand as it's moving in a given direction determines my picking. I don't think about it, it just happens. Which is handy smile.gif So Eco going up string, AP going down. When playing really fast you are dealing in fractions of a second between pick strokes so leveraging the physics of the hand itself becomes important.

But every player is different, so some folks will just find this approach to be "Plain Crazy!" as strick Eco or AP works better for them. And if it works, keep doing it!

OBSERVATION: THE FLOATING HAND AND SPEED

I notice in both videos that the picking hand on both players was drifting slightly above the bridge, especially during the fast picking bits. The second video, the guy uses a string mute at the end of the neck to prevent string noise as he lifts his pick hand entirely off the bridge during fast picking.The hand wants to rise off the bridge naturally as planting it and picking fast at the same time feels very odd, especially at first. If one is adept at left hand muting, and doesn't generate tons of extra string noise, it's usually fine. (Muris is a great example, although he is palm muting the lower strings most of the time). The second video, where the guy is using the string mute, is an example at the other end. Don't get me wrong AMAZING PLAYING on both. Just pointing out something I see quite a bit. If you can get used to playing fast and just rotating the hand on the bridge to reach different strings instead of lifting it, you will find it's easier to "Palm Mute" anything, even fast lead runs on any string, including the high E, B, etc.

I talk about this a lot in video chat. Using the bridge as a pivot point. It's not something the hand does by itself, but it's easily adjusted.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 14 2012, 12:24 PM
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Had the honor of meeting Damjan in 2010 and yes he is a hell of a player biggrin.gif

Looking forward to seeing your take on this piece Gabe biggrin.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 14 2012, 05:57 PM
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Hmm, I'm pretty good with outsides, and with string skipping, but need to work more on inside. It's great to discuss these things in detail, and very good discussion. I'm tackling these lesson for a while now, but still far away from being so precise. Still, it's a game that lasts, and those whos stories are worth the most - are survivors smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 14 2012, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Jan 13 2012, 02:39 PM) *
this lesson scares me biggrin.gif
The video of the guy hybrid picking - I watched the vid full screen and if he's hybrid picking, it's so subtle I wouldn't have even noticed it. his fingers barely moved!

Can't wait to see your take, and more interestingly, the fact that you are posting your experiences as you learn this lesson I find great!! It's good to know the mental process and how you feel about certain parts as you learn it - what is challenging, and how you propose to overcome the hurdles. Thanks for this thread!

Chris

and on a side note: I watched the Muris Lesson and at the end, the chord notations that flashed on the screen went by so fast I had to laugh - it's like you have see the video lesson in slow motion to know what Letters flashed on the screen LOL. laugh.gif laugh.gif



hahah yes, it took me a lot of attention to discover that he was using Hybrid Picking. After some days of practice I think that Alternate Picking is a bit easier for me for that licks. However I still need more practice because those parts only sound perfect when I'm playing at 130 bpm.

I practised a lot these days and I got up today with some pain in my arm so I'm giving my hands a rest. biggrin.gif


QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 13 2012, 03:30 PM) *
I've played with that lesson before too and those pedal note licks were evil !

I was just going to find that video of the hybrid picking guy and then I noticed you'd found it anyway wink.gif

If you're already at 135/140 you're still doing an amazing job.. better than most of us mortals cool.gif


138 but with lots of errors! smile.gif I will post a video of my progress as soon as my hands feel better!

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 14 2012, 01:56 AM) *
Both Vids are just amazing. Muris is astounding and I"m gonna have to learn this. Wow.!!!!

I"m a serious fan of "Hybrid Picking" and use it pretty much all the time. I've found that ascending bits work more efficiently on the hand (IMHO) with Economic Picking and descending bits work more efficiently on the hand (again IMHO) using Alternate Picking. Taking advantage of the natural motion of the hand as it's moving in a given direction determines my picking. I don't think about it, it just happens. Which is handy smile.gif So Eco going up string, AP going down. When playing really fast you are dealing in fractions of a second between pick strokes so leveraging the physics of the hand itself becomes important.

But every player is different, so some folks will just find this approach to be "Plain Crazy!" as strick Eco or AP works better for them. And if it works, keep doing it!

OBSERVATION: THE FLOATING HAND AND SPEED

I notice in both videos that the picking hand on both players was drifting slightly above the bridge, especially during the fast picking bits. The second video, the guy uses a string mute at the end of the neck to prevent string noise as he lifts his pick hand entirely off the bridge during fast picking.The hand wants to rise off the bridge naturally as planting it and picking fast at the same time feels very odd, especially at first. If one is adept at left hand muting, and doesn't generate tons of extra string noise, it's usually fine. (Muris is a great example, although he is palm muting the lower strings most of the time). The second video, where the guy is using the string mute, is an example at the other end. Don't get me wrong AMAZING PLAYING on both. Just pointing out something I see quite a bit. If you can get used to playing fast and just rotating the hand on the bridge to reach different strings instead of lifting it, you will find it's easier to "Palm Mute" anything, even fast lead runs on any string, including the high E, B, etc.

I talk about this a lot in video chat. Using the bridge as a pivot point. It's not something the hand does by itself, but it's easily adjusted.


Great observations Todd! I always prefer playing using my right hand and also some fingers (mostly the index) of my left hand to mute the strings that I'm not playing. However I will try this lesson using something to mute the string only to feel the difference.

Once thing that helped me was just practising AP exercises (like the ones that I shared in my last 2 videochats, check my lesson notes?) at 140/150 bpm to get used to that killer speed (I've never played that fast so I have to get used to it, my hand gets tired soon).




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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 17 2012, 07:14 AM
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hey guys! just an update of my progress! I'm working on short AP exercises to get used to this fast tempo...
this is an example of what I'm practising...

   |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|  
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||--------------------------------------------------10-12-13-10-12-13-|
G||----------------------------------9-11-12-9-11-12-------------------|
D||------------------9-10-12-9-10-12-----------------------------------|
A||--9-10-12-9-10-12---------------------------------------------------|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------|


|--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S H.
--10-12-14-10-12-14-15------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||


Check out the guitar pro file:

Attached File  Exercise.gp5 ( 1.84K ) Number of downloads: 32



and my takes at 150 bpm and 155 bpm. smile.gif

Attached File  150_bpm.mp3 ( 120K ) Number of downloads: 52


Attached File  155_bpm.mp3 ( 100.41K ) Number of downloads: 45



Practising short licks like this one is very helpful to get use to the speed... then the goal is to have the resistance to play long ideas at this tempo..

I'm still having problems with the pedal note neoclassical licks but they sound better now...




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Do you need a Guitar Plan?
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Ben Higgins
post Jan 17 2012, 09:33 AM
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Man, that's fast !! You'll get there in no time cool.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 17 2012, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 17 2012, 06:14 AM) *
hey guys! just an update of my progress! I'm working on short AP exercises to get used to this fast tempo...
this is an example of what I'm practising...

   |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|  |--3--|  |--3--|  
S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------|
B||--------------------------------------------------10-12-13-10-12-13-|
G||----------------------------------9-11-12-9-11-12-------------------|
D||------------------9-10-12-9-10-12-----------------------------------|
A||--9-10-12-9-10-12---------------------------------------------------|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------|


|--3--| |--3--|
S S S S S S H.
--10-12-14-10-12-14-15------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||
----------------------------------||


Check out the guitar pro file:

Attached File  Exercise.gp5 ( 1.84K ) Number of downloads: 32



and my takes at 150 bpm and 155 bpm. smile.gif

Attached File  150_bpm.mp3 ( 120K ) Number of downloads: 52


Attached File  155_bpm.mp3 ( 100.41K ) Number of downloads: 45



Practising short licks like this one is very helpful to get use to the speed... then the goal is to have the resistance to play long ideas at this tempo..

I'm still having problems with the pedal note neoclassical licks but they sound better now...


Awesome mate biggrin.gif glad to hear you're making progress with this


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JaxN4
post Jan 17 2012, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 17 2012, 06:14 AM) *
hey guys! just an update of my progress! I'm working on short AP exercises to get used to this fast tempo...
this is an example of what I'm practising...


and my takes at 150 bpm and 155 bpm. smile.gif

Attached File  150_bpm.mp3 ( 120K ) Number of downloads: 52


Attached File  155_bpm.mp3 ( 100.41K ) Number of downloads: 45



Gabe, you are a fkn WEAPON! awesome chops, you WILL get there..... "the only thing holding you back is the way your thinking" smile.gif


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jan 17 2012, 01:34 PM
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when Gabe, isn't playing with Cirse, he plays with another band and is known by Petrucci, that is.... his secret, for the godly skills ph34r.gif

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Jan 17 2012, 01:35 PM


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JaxN4
post Jan 17 2012, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 17 2012, 12:34 PM) *
when Gabe, isn't playing with Cirse, he plays with another band and is known by Petrucci, that is.... his secret, for the godly skills ph34r.gif



Gabriel when he is older

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This post has been edited by JaxN4: Jan 17 2012, 01:40 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 17 2012, 02:10 PM
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QUOTE (JaxN4 @ Jan 17 2012, 07:20 AM) *
Gabe, you are a fkn WEAPON! awesome chops, you WILL get there..... "the only thing holding you back is the way your thinking" smile.gif


Exactly!! That's the key!! smile.gif


QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jan 17 2012, 09:34 AM) *
when Gabe, isn't playing with Cirse, he plays with another band and is known by Petrucci, that is.... his secret, for the godly skills ph34r.gif


haahahahaah tongue.gif

QUOTE (JaxN4 @ Jan 17 2012, 09:38 AM) *
Gabriel when he is older

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laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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maharzan
post Mar 2 2012, 10:50 AM
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How is this coming out Gabriel? I am interested because I also tried this one time but never reached there. sad.gif


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Ben Higgins
post Mar 2 2012, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Mar 2 2012, 09:50 AM) *
How is this coming out Gabriel? I am interested because I also tried this one time but never reached there. sad.gif


Well, you achieved more than most with your version ! smile.gif


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