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> How To Convert Classical Notation To Tabs
richardb
post Jan 22 2012, 08:35 PM
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Hi,

I have just installed PowerTab, tongue.gif

I need to convert classical notation to tab notation rolleyes.gif

with PowerTab I can convert tab notation to classical,
but I havent found how to convert classical notation to tab notation sad.gif ,
can this be done with PowerTab?

if not, is there any free software which can do this?

is there any commercial software which can do this?

mellow.gif


to clarify a bit, I bought 3 books of music scores on Saturday,
in classical notation,

one is "Abba Gold" which is the Abba Gold music, with Abba copyright
ie it is the official transcription, I was thinking of playing "money money money"
but I'm not sure which octave the initial repeated chord is.
the start of the track plays a chord repeatedly, then plays the individual
notes of the chord in ascending order,

another is "The Gig Book" with 101 classic tracks by many authors
alphabetically arranged by song title, eg Vienna (which I think was by Ultravox),
Up where we belong, I Feel Good, God Only Knows, and endless
others cool.gif . It doesnt give the group names, but the authors names,

the remaining book is some childrens music, these are useful as they tend
to be easier to play and I already know what many should sound like, biggrin.gif

I think it is inadvisable to find transcripts from the internet, because of copyright
the stuff you find on Google tends to have been modified and isnt the correct
transcription! mad.gif

the shop I went to had the official transcription books for many music groups,
but the books also are expensive, probably because of the copyright costs.
The Abba Gold book cost 15 quid.

they had some books with tab notation, but all the ones I found didnt have
too many scores.

This post has been edited by richardb: Jan 22 2012, 08:56 PM
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Sinisa Cekic
post Jan 22 2012, 09:51 PM
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Try this one - http://www.tabledit.com/
It isn't free but you can download demo trial !


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richardb
post Jan 23 2012, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 22 2012, 08:51 PM) *
Try this one - http://www.tabledit.com/
It isn't free but you can download demo trial !


ok, looks interesting, the operative quote from the webpage being:

"TablEdit supports both tablature and standard notation and features instant conversion from one to the other."

The price is high at $59.97, but maybe its coz its good,
I will see what the free version is like first!

act in haste, repent at leisure!

They have a quote for TablEdit by user "James Brown", I dont know if that is THE James Brown
of "I feel good" that I quoted above, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNXaCXVNFm8 cool.gif

looks like the user quote changes each time one visits the URL!

(the original video for Vienna mentioned is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9WdUgn0XkU&ob=av2e at the end of the video there are a lot of links to other classics of that era eg "Dont you want me"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endsc...p;v=uPudE8nDog0 and Betty Davis eyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feat...p;v=EPOIS5taqA8
)

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richardb
post Jan 24 2012, 02:48 AM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 22 2012, 08:51 PM) *
Try this one - http://www.tabledit.com/
It isn't free but you can download demo trial !


I have been trying the free demo,

I entered the classical notation for some music which it converted to tabs,

but when I played it using tabledit, it didnt sound right. huh.gif

I then copied the tab notation it had generated to the powertab program
and played it with that and it sounded correct. tongue.gif

it looks like Tabledit converts to tab notation correctly, but the playback function
seems to ignore the key signature. I dont know if that is just a limit of the
free version?

ie it uses the key signature for converting to tabs but not for playback.

But it supplies the function that I need, and by using both programs it is
then satisfactory. biggrin.gif

also I noticed that the conversion uses a lot of 0's, of the 45 notes I have
entered, for the output: 26 are 0's, 4 are 1's, 7 are 2's, 4 are 3's, and 4 are 4's

ie it uses a lot of 0's and has kept to the top box,

one problem is there is a chord
E--
B--
G -0
D--
A-2
E--

but those are not consecutive strings at an edge, looking at a diagram
I think that would be better as

E--
B--
G--
D--
A-10
E-7

as those are consecutive strings at an edge,

I dont know if that is a standard chord?

in general I think each note can be played at 4 different frets eg

E--
B--
G-2
D-7
A-12
E-17

are 4 identical notes

I think for the guitar here which has 21 frets (0 1 2 ... 21) there are 6 notes which
can be done on 5 strings:

frets 0 1 2 of string 2 can be played on strings 2 3 4 5 6

and

frets 0 1 2 of string 1 can be played on strings 1 2 3 4 5

and some notes can only be done on one string eg

frets 0 1 2 3 4 of string 6

and

frets 21 20 19 18 17 of string 1

I think the 2 outer strings of the guitar are 2 octaves apart,
which means that with frets 0 1 2 3 4 you can play 2 full octaves
and a further 4 notes.

but with the above example it looks like you need to move a long
distance outside the top box to do the chord at the edge.


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Sinisa Cekic
post Jan 24 2012, 01:36 PM
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Now you have me totally confused laugh.gif !
one problem is there is a chord
E--
B--
G -0
D--
A-2
E--


It seems to me that something is wrong, this should be a G5 power chord, or Em7, but Em7 is written in this way-
E--0
B--0
G--0
D--0
A--2
E--0

I think it's best to copy &paste one of the guitar tab here, to had a clear picture of what the problem is !




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richardb
post Jan 25 2012, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 24 2012, 12:36 PM) *
Now you have me totally confused laugh.gif !
one problem is there is a chord
E--
B--
G -0
D--
A-2
E--


It seems to me that something is wrong, this should be a G5 power chord, or Em7, but Em7 is written in this way-
E--0
B--0
G--0
D--0
A--2
E--0

I think it's best to copy &paste one of the guitar tab here, to had a clear picture of what the problem is !


I have written out the original classical notation and photographed this:
Attached Image

I can play this as:

E--
B--
G--
D--
A-10
E-7

which moves it to consecutive strings at an edge, I can play the chord as non consecutive strings
by strumming with 2 fingers, the music I think must be a traditional scottish tune from
maybe the 1700's or 1800's

I have managed to convert the entire song to tabs and have learnt to play it already!
(not sufficiently fast)

I am now trying to convert a pop song to tabs and have reached some strange notation:

Attached Image

what is the symbol indicated by the red box?

and how do I do that with the Powertab and Tabledit programs?

the chord in this second picture I have calculated is:

-5
-5
-5
-7
-
-

This post has been edited by richardb: Jan 25 2012, 09:31 PM
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Sinisa Cekic
post Jan 25 2012, 10:02 PM
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I understand now what we're talking about, the old Scottish songs have such an arrangement with two notes.
Ok, we clarified what is the power chord, you got it (two notes played simultaneously)! The character that you have marked is a symbol "REST"-an interval of silence before the next beat !

CODE
the chord in this second picture I have calculated is:

-5
-5
-5
-7
-
-


That's A minor chord !

ps:

Speaking of Scottish traditional tunes,check it out wink.gif

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Around...igland_Bagpipe/

This post has been edited by Sinisa Cekic: Jan 25 2012, 10:06 PM


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richardb
post Jan 26 2012, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 25 2012, 09:02 PM) *
I understand now what we're talking about, the old Scottish songs have such an arrangement with two notes.
Ok, we clarified what is the power chord, you got it (two notes played simultaneously)!


I figured the song was scottish because it uses some words which are used today
but only in scottish english.

QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 25 2012, 09:02 PM) *
The character that you have marked is a symbol "REST"-an interval of silence before the next beat !


ok, I thought it was something else!

QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 25 2012, 09:02 PM) *
CODE
the chord in this second picture I have calculated is:

-5
-5
-5
-7
-
-


That's A minor chord !


ok, not learnt about these yet!


QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 25 2012, 09:02 PM) *
ps:

Speaking of Scottish traditional tunes,check it out wink.gif

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Around...igland_Bagpipe/


cool! cool.gif

I didnt realize the bagpipes were a weapon!

the british military often have scots in black playing bagpipes, "the black watch"
http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/22208.aspx

one traditional scottish song we were taught at school is "speed bonnie boat",
eg the following video shows the score near the start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7wBlGEVboc


I think one of the best musicians from Scotland is Annie Lennox of The Eurythmics, eg I think her best song was:

There Must be an Angel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6OT56cWnKA

the song is better without the video!


I'm interested to study some of the irish traditional music, they have some amazing tunes
unfortunately I dont know what any are called huh.gif

the best irish musician must be Bob Geldof of The Boomtown Rats! eg the classic:

I dont like Mondays:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kobdb37Cwc&ob=av2n

he also starred in the Pink Floyd film "The Wall", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd%E2%80%94The_Wall

which has the song "we dont need no education":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTpZpwjtIE

which looks interesting from a guitar point of view.

Banana Republic by the boomtown rats is also a great tune,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2IwOemnjbI


The best rock music film ever I think was "Tommy" by The Who, which they refer to as
"a rock opera"

the cinematography is also quite stunning,

when I watch that film, it reminds me of how England used to be long ago,
the country now is completely different.

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Sinisa Cekic
post Jan 26 2012, 10:46 PM
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I am glad if I was helpful wink.gif . Hey,Your examples are pure classic! Bob Geldof, Anny Lenox, phenomenal musicians indeed. Geldof was one of my idols there in mid-eighties! The famous Band Aid charity concert ... good old days rolleyes.gif ! I love Irish music so soon gonna do a lesson for my "Around the World" series !

"Tommy" ?!? - every rock musician should watch this movie, it's unforgettable !!!



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richardb
post Jan 27 2012, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 26 2012, 09:46 PM) *
I am glad if I was helpful wink.gif . Hey,Your examples are pure classic! Bob Geldof, Anny Lenox, phenomenal musicians indeed. Geldof was one of my idols there in mid-eighties!


thats the era cool.gif , I bought the vinyl album with Banana Republic, I also have the 45rpm single of "I dont like Mondays", I bought that in a sale long after it was in the charts, chart singles were too expensive to buy when in the charts!

another excellent british group of that time is "Heaven 17", https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feat...p;v=xWwtMrDX2o8 I have various vinyl records of theirs, their music sounds better on vinyl: their records tended to be very high quality sound, but thats a different genre

if you go back some years from then to around 1980 an interesting group were "The Police" eg my favourites are "walking on the moon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPwMdZOlPo8&ob=av2n
and "cant stand losing you" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH0vjLwMyc4&ob=av2n their lead singer Sting later went solo,

Annie Lennox has a sublime voice, the other song by The Eurythmics that I think is as good is "a whiter shade of pale", I couldnt remember what this was called but found it by searching for the word "cartwheels" and "Eurythmics"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJIVz9nYx7I

(all the videos of this are a bit embarrassing to watch!)

it doesnt directly appear on YouTube if you just search for Eurythmics.

My theory is that music generally deteriorated once they switched from vinyl to CDs, vinyl is a much more mellow sound,

also in the 1970's and 1980's there was nothing for young people to do in England, and starting a pop group was a way to use the time, in those days in Britain there were just 3 television stations: BBC1 BBC2 and ITV, and eg on Sundays there was nothing at all on television, eventually they started a 4th television station "channel 4", and in the late 1990's a 5th station channel 5.

a lot of the pop music is the people expressing their dissatisfaction with their circumstances,

eg "this is the sound of the suburbs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZWRQLBR5v4

with the classic lines: "same old boring sunday morning", on the television on Sundays it would be "songs of praise" and golf!

in the background there is a station announcement for Staines.

I like the song, the lyrics, but dont like the video!


but today with the internet and endless television channels young people have too many ways to misuse their time and dont do anything interesting, everything is ready made, the society also has become "dumbed down" where people are discouraged from acquiring abilities.

in those days the television programs were much more interesting, but there would be maybe 1 or 2 interesting programs each day,
eg Top of the Pops was on Thursdays on BBC1, just on Saturdays there were a lot of interesting programs, today the problem is the television channels are too specialised, and its only the original general television stations which are worth watching,

today a lot of things are on the internet, but you need to already know what you are looking for!

also the main contact with earlier music now is the "hits of the 80's" kind of CD's, but those usually just focus on the no. 1 hits,
in fact a lot of the interesting music may have only gotten into the top 40 or top 20 or top 10, some company did
a CD of no. 2 hits, music which never reached no. 1, and there are many classics eg:

Electric Avenue by Eddy Grant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA5MtAmT24g which is good for playing at high volume,
Funkytown by Lipps Inc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm_UG5sEPHI
Cant get by without you by The Real Thing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyWmY6ZQ0ic

none of which reached no. 1

QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 26 2012, 09:46 PM) *
The famous Band Aid charity concert ... good old days rolleyes.gif ! I love Irish music so soon gonna do a lesson for my "Around the World" series !


before Band Aid, Bob Geldof was just the lead singer of the Boomtown Rats, but with Band Aid he became a major public figure


when I was a student there was some pub which had some amazing irish music on the juke box, I think the publican was irish, its music that I recognize if I hear it, but I cannot remember it nor remember the names of the tracks!

there was a student who had irish ancestry who said they were classics of irish culture,

I would like to locate any of that music and try to learn some on the guitar,

QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 26 2012, 09:46 PM) *
"Tommy" ?!? - every rock musician should watch this movie, it's unforgettable !!!


they will never make material like that again!

perhaps thats a good thing as those rock stars were living a dangerous lifestyle they are all now well behaved people!

I have another music notation question:

in the following picture:

Attached Image

the symbol in the red box,

what is that called?
how do I do this with the PowerTab program?
how is it played with the guitar?

I think the 2 notes are:


--
31
--
--
--
--



but maybe they are played at different frets from these?

also how do I represent the 2 different timings with tab notation,
times: 0.5 then 1.0?

at the moment I just play those as separate notes, which sounds acceptable but I think some kind of technique is needed to make the sound better.

there is another such which is:


1-
-5
--
--
--
--


I can see that classical notation is not good for guitar as the same note on a guitar usually occurs on 4 different strings and the fret to use depends on the other frets, eg you want the next fret to be as near as possible to the previous fret. Classical notation doesnt tell you which fret to use, also the guitar frets are a 2 dimensional arrangement, I think classical notation is for instruments where the notes are arranged in 1 dimension eg piano or flute.

actually that chord from the scottish music I now strum using 2 fingers as the chord is then near the other notes:


-
-
0
-
2
-


thumb:string string string:finger

I pull the 2 strings upwards with the thumb and finger simultaneously

This post has been edited by richardb: Jan 27 2012, 07:32 PM
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Sinisa Cekic
post Jan 27 2012, 11:11 PM
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You are totally right. A similar situation was here in the former Yugoslavia, many good bands marked an epoch, young people have become rebels (of personal beliefs, not a puppets like today), and this is what we will be hard to return! Today, life is different, haste, anxiety, daily social turmoil, INTERNET, people are alienated, and everything has become industrialization and profit cool.gif !

Ok, that sign(dome), which are marked is a "legato slide" - hit the first note and then slide finger to another note without striking the second note! Of course, these two notes should be on the same string smile.gif !
I am afraid that in another part of the question I can't answer, because it's unclear a bit !" 0.5 then 1.0? "

True ,the guitar notation is quite different than classical ! I am not familiar with a POWER TAB, I use GUITAR PRO software, but I'm sure that Power Tab must have (in options) explanations for each character that is unknown for you !

I would like to turn on your camera and try to shoot that piece,and I believe it would be much clearer for all of us what's all about !! wink.gif


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Blister
post Jan 28 2012, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (richardb @ Jan 25 2012, 03:03 PM) *
I am now trying to convert a pop song to tabs and have reached some strange notation:

Attached Image

what is the symbol indicated by the red box?

I just checked the Power Tab site. I believe the marking is a "strum" notation & not a rest. Hope this helps.


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Sinisa Cekic
post Jan 28 2012, 02:19 PM
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It's possible, as I said I don't know about Power tab, but here's similar sign of "rest" in Guitar Pro.Thanks Blister wink.gif

Attached Image


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richardb
post Jan 29 2012, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 27 2012, 10:11 PM) *
You are totally right. A similar situation was here in the former Yugoslavia, many good bands marked an epoch, young people have become rebels (of personal beliefs, not a puppets like today), and this is what we will be hard to return!


Can you give links to any personal favourites?

Many of the songs I quote are from the english scene, I dont know how many of these reached other countries.

Sometimes thats a matter of marketing and publicity, if you dont market and publicize music to other countries
then it wont appear in their scene! You then have to get the people who run the music programs on
television and radio to play the music, which is politics. Really you need an agent in each country you
want to target. First challenge is to succeed in the home market and then to export.

In Britain music from overseas is mostly from america, with a few hits from Germany such as
Nena's 99 red balloons, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14IRDDnEPR4
an english translation of her song "99 luft balloons", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQYQTFudrqc

german only lyrics are unlikely to succeed in Britain,

Da Da Da also succeeded, as that has some english lyrics, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZviYmTMpBXE
I think the guy is using one of those mini Casio keyboards which were popular at that time.
if I remember correctly they cost 50 quid, some people at school had those.

and from Austria: rock me amadeus,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1VB7ewnPDk


from other countries there was the french song by Plastic Bertram with impossible to remember title:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDfmn_TMkI

and there have been some songs by anglophone groups sung in french eg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXAzFYG4LUE

and songs about France: eg Lost in France by Bonnie Tyler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9b7CgTIRKU


I think some songs from africa have been featured here without any english lyrics,
but I cannot remember specifically, there was some radio presenter who used to
visit africa and bring back interesting music,


digressing a bit on this, a relative visited Kenya on work and brought back an interesting 45rpm in swahili

Hakuna Matata by Teddy Kalanda Harrison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhnFr_rVHw

nothing to do with Disney's Lion King. Best to listen without watching the video.


The Nena example shows that it can pay to do a translated version of a song,




QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 27 2012, 10:11 PM) *
Today, life is different, haste, anxiety, daily social turmoil, INTERNET, people are alienated, and everything has become industrialization and profit cool.gif !


you now have to transform these ideas into lyrics!

and you need a tune which represents the sentiment, eg aggressive like "this is the sound of the suburbs" or
depressing

such a song doesnt have to mean anything but to have fragments which have meaning like the
"same old boring sunday morning" or "crushed by the wheels of industry" (Heaven 17 lyric), a kind of lyrical pastiche,
based on expressive slogans,


its quite a challenge, you could do away with the lyrics and compose a tune which expresses the sentiment,
eg focus on some specific exaggerated imagery eg rows and rows of people sitting at computers with headphones
glaring at their screens,
while through the windows we see some beautiful scenery with rich colours, flowers, birds, sunlight:
the forgotten real world replaced by a grim
virtual reality, the music then alternates between beautiful sublime music representing the real world
and then some fast depressing aggressive music representing the virtual world.
there can be a gigantic screen which the people sometimes look at in synchrony which has Merkel or Cameron or
Obama in a bad mood, followed by images of water cannon and rocket propelled grenades (RPGs).

american films are made using a technique called storyboarding, where they create a hand drawn cartoon
of the scenes. The "Rumblefish" DVD has in the extra material info on how they storyboarded that film.

Abba, Geldof, Boney M use a narrative approach, eg "I dont like Mondays" is about a news story of a
school girl who went bezerk with a gun whose explanation was that she didnt like mondays.

"the silicon chip inside her head had switched to overload, nobodys going to go to school today,
she's going to make them stay at home, daddy doesnt understand it, he always said she was
good as gold, and he can see no reasons, coz there are no reasons, .... tell me why,
I dont like Mondays, ..., I wanna shoot, the whole day down ..."

Boney M did a huge amount of classics, the first I heard was "Ma Baker",
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLzqMJQzzcA
my favourite is Sunny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhudMc0jfsc
this latter one isnt narrative,

they did a narrative one about Rasputin, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmjdZKfumEI
which I think they performed in Russia as I think their DVD version shows them in Moscow,
there is a guitarized redone version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdkBs0VCSX0

that gives an idea to do a song about Putin, he's the ideal subject for a song,

Vlad Vlad Vladimir
He's the man
we all fear

Putin Putin
put your boot in
its your votes
that we're disputin

Putin Putin
the Kremlins cruel King
why are you
Mr Assads true friend

Vlad Vlad Vladimir!
do not fear,
Misha's here

(Misha is the russian nickname for Mikhail, ie Gorbachev, I am referring here to Gorbachev's asking
Putin to not stand for president)

But you could write a song about a fictional person who represents all
that you dont like about yourself. You take all the worst things and have a fest,
perhaps exaggerate them also.

ELO did a nice one called Horace Wimp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFU9HYyMVxQ

I am sure the lyricist was writing about himself, "wimp" is british slang for someone who is either
weak or afraid of action. In the video, a UFO orders him to take action. "the voice from above said,
Horace Wimp, this is your life, ..."


QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 27 2012, 10:11 PM) *
Ok, that sign(dome), which are marked is a "legato slide" - hit the first note and then slide finger to another note without striking the second note! Of course, these two notes should be on the same string smile.gif !


ok, I think with the other example I gave:

1-
-5
--
--
--
--

that is in fact the same as

10
--
--
--
--
--

where they are on the same string,

you slide the finger along the string?

this guitar here is such low quality that I think this might not work on some strings, I intend to get a better quality guitar.
I dont want to waste money on restringing but just replace the entirety.

with Abba's Money Money Money they have several of these "legato slides" in parallel,
eg where she sings "a ha ---- a ha" one of the instruments has 3 in parallel, I am playing the voice track with the guitar
where there are 2. The chord track is Dm E7 for this.


QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 27 2012, 10:11 PM) *
I am afraid that in another part of the question I can't answer, because it's unclear a bit !" 0.5 then 1.0? "


what I meant is that different notes are different lengths, eg "d" is 2 beats and "o" is 4 beats, how is this
represented with tabs?

QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Jan 27 2012, 10:11 PM) *
True ,the guitar notation is quite different than classical ! I am not familiar with a POWER TAB, I use GUITAR PRO software, but I'm sure that Power Tab must have (in options) explanations for each character that is unknown for you !

I would like to turn on your camera and try to shoot that piece,and I believe it would be much clearer for all of us what's all about !! wink.gif


if you have Windows XP you can capture the screen by pressing the key to the right of F12 and then running
Paint from Start--All Programs -- Accessories--Paint and then selecting Edit--paste, and then saving that.
I learnt this trick from some company who wanted my bank statement, but this was only online.

the full version of Powertab is for free: http://www.brothersoft.com/power-tab-editor-66566.html

does Guitar Pro convert from classical to tab notation?



QUOTE (Blister @ Jan 28 2012, 11:35 AM) *
I just checked the Power Tab site. I believe the marking is a "strum" notation & not a rest. Hope this helps.


what exactly do they mean by that?

a strum before the notes?

This post has been edited by richardb: Jan 29 2012, 10:53 PM
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