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#1
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
Hey mates, I talked about my new Symphonic Metal band in an older topic, so I'd like to share with you our first song.
![]() http://soundcloud.com/dino-trnka/dolia-winter-queen-1 Everything was done in Cubase with Guitar Rig. I won't talk much about it, I'll let the music speak for itself. So... Please tell me what you think about the song, the overall feel, the instruments, vocals, the production and of course, the guitar solo. ![]() ![]() Cheers! ![]() -------------------- |
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#2
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![]() Instructor ![]() Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 30.507 Joined: 3-March 07 From: Argentina Member No.: 1.289 ![]() |
hey mate!! Congrats for the firs song!!
![]() The guitar solo is amazing! You did a great job with it!! Regarding the mix, I think that the drums could sound better, a bit fatter and more powerful. I can really note the bass in the mix... maybe you could add a compressor and boost 1.5 khz frequencies. The voice need more presence and a bit less fx for my taste. -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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#3
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
hey mate!! Congrats for the firs song!! ![]() The guitar solo is amazing! You did a great job with it!! Regarding the mix, I think that the drums could sound better, a bit fatter and more powerful. I can really note the bass in the mix... maybe you could add a compressor and boost 1.5 khz frequencies. The voice need more presence and a bit less fx for my taste. Thanks a lot for the feedback my friend. ![]() -------------------- |
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#4
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![]() Instructor ![]() Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 30.507 Joined: 3-March 07 From: Argentina Member No.: 1.289 ![]() |
Thanks a lot for the feedback my friend. ![]() no problem mate! I wish you all the best in this project! ![]() -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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#5
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![]() Instructor ![]() Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 4.332 Joined: 21-November 11 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 14.398 ![]() |
Hey mates, I talked about my new Symphonic Metal band in an older topic, so I'd like to share with you our first song. ![]() http://soundcloud.com/dino-trnka/dolia-winter-queen-1 Everything was done in Cubase with Guitar Rig. I won't talk much about it, I'll let the music speak for itself. So... Please tell me what you think about the song, the overall feel, the instruments, vocals, the production and of course, the guitar solo. ![]() ![]() Cheers! ![]() Congrats! Sounds really good! Great job! -------------------- |
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#6
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Instructor ![]() Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 4.649 Joined: 15-October 08 From: Belgrade,Serbia Member No.: 6.085 ![]() |
She is somewhat unsure,my first impression
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#7
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
Thanks a lot for the support friends!
![]() ![]() Here's the YouTube version of the song: We tried to fix the mixing a bit in this version. And we'll definitely take every feedback with great seriousness and try to make our next songs better and better. ![]() This post has been edited by Dinaga: Jan 23 2012, 11:26 PM -------------------- |
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#8
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![]() Learning Rock Star ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1.241 Joined: 4-May 10 From: Bay Area, California Member No.: 10.312 ![]() |
Nice composition!
Good stuff in my opinion ~ I love the rhythm guitars as a whole - you create a great groove once the ball starts rolling. I like the opening, and if you're trying to create an ethereal feel, consider some keyboard chamber voices to back your singer. I love the composition too - you broke out the song into parts very nicely - it has direction which I like! The *needs work* in my opinion ~ The Mix seems thin to me, and I'll have to agree with Sinisa on the vocals. She's using an operatic falsetto which is fine for the genre but if she's not going to supply the "umph", then you need to beef up the rhythm guitars/bass line to help supplement the power. She's also singing out of key in target notes from 2:07 - 2:47. If it's by design, I don't like it ![]() 41-43 - your strings are out of tune for this one picked arpeggio, but only there? Were you gripping the fretboard too hard? ![]() I love what you're doing here! Thanks so much for sharing! Looking forward to more! okay - third time thru - that's a good sign ![]() haha - I had to listen to the solo section a few times to zero in on the backing chord progression for it. That's a great chord progression you have going on there. Very creative! I love it! This post has been edited by SirJamsalot: Jan 24 2012, 12:14 AM -------------------- The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat ![]() |
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#9
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![]() GMC:er ![]() Group: Members Posts: 977 Joined: 1-September 11 From: Chino Hills, California Member No.: 13.756 ![]() |
I feel as if all the advice that needed to be given has already been taken care of. Great job, Dinaga! The solo makes me wonder why you are a student on GMC rather than a teacher
![]() -------------------- All the elders have fallen down...
Heal her now... All the elders have fallen down... Heal her now... Grandfather elk Turned to me And spoke: Light the fire deep inside. Light the fires! ![]() |
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#10
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
Nice composition! Good stuff in my opinion ~ I love the rhythm guitars as a whole - you create a great groove once the ball starts rolling. I like the opening, and if you're trying to create an ethereal feel, consider some keyboard chamber voices to back your singer. I love the composition too - you broke out the song into parts very nicely - it has direction which I like! The *needs work* in my opinion ~ The Mix seems thin to me, and I'll have to agree with Sinisa on the vocals. She's using an operatic falsetto which is fine for the genre but if she's not going to supply the "umph", then you need to beef up the rhythm guitars/bass line to help supplement the power. She's also singing out of key in target notes from 2:07 - 2:47. If it's by design, I don't like it ![]() 41-43 - your strings are out of tune for this one picked arpeggio, but only there? Were you gripping the fretboard too hard? ![]() I love what you're doing here! Thanks so much for sharing! Looking forward to more! okay - third time thru - that's a good sign ![]() Wow, thanks a lot Sir for such a detailed feedback! ![]() About the vocals - Yes, we will constantly improve that aspect. I think our singer has potential but needs to be guided the right way and we need to improve the vocal performance by paying more attention to the exact vocal notes so they aren't out of key. Also, we did the production ourselves, in Cubase with Guitar Rig as a plugin and we could have put better suiting effects on vocal as well (we used a sort of 'Icy' reverb on vocals in Guitar Rig). And we definitely need a better microphone because vocals are sometimes too silent and other times too loud. All in all - your're totally right, there is room for improvement! About the arpeggio - well, I was probably gripping the fretboard to hard ![]() ![]() ![]() I feel as if all the advice that needed to be given has already been taken care of. Great job, Dinaga! The solo makes me wonder why you are a student on GMC rather than a teacher ![]() ![]() ![]() That is one of my big dreams, that's why I'll have to do my best to constantly keep improving my guitar playing and one day, who knows ![]() This post has been edited by Dinaga: Jan 24 2012, 12:23 AM -------------------- |
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#11
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![]() Learning Apprentice Player ![]() Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 31-January 11 From: Florida Member No.: 12.141 ![]() |
That's your FIRST song? Great job! That solo was fantastic! Thanks for sharing!
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#12
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![]() Learning Roadie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2.570 Joined: 26-October 11 From: Galway, Ireland Member No.: 14.225 ![]() |
How did you get Yngwie to do a guest spot?
Good job, I'd agree about the vocals, the get a little lost in the mix and need a bit more something to strengthen them and their position. -------------------- My SoundCloud
PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd ![]() Gear Ibanez Rg770FM Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro |
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#13
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![]() Moderator - low level high stakes ![]() Group: GMC Senior Posts: 6.173 Joined: 27-June 07 From: Espania - Cadiz province Member No.: 2.194 ![]() |
Wow, thanks a lot Sir for such a detailed feedback! ![]() ...And we definitely need a better microphone because vocals are sometimes too silent and other times too loud. All in all - your're totally right, there is room for improvement! ... Nice composition and playing/singing but +1 with Gab's comments on the mix - it does need some more attention. You need to not just consider the vox mic but the preamp that is being use and you should consider using a compressor on it. To some extent though you need a more consistent recording and performance with attention to mic technique. This isn't questionng whether she has a nice voice and can sing but on being able to hold, position and work a mic appropriately. Vox needs de-essing quite a bit as well. With reverb - you can either use reverb as an obvious effect or as ambience. In the recording, to me, the vox reverb here is used as an effect and IMHO it doesn't work. I'd suggest that you use reverb on this recording more as abience and be more subtle with it. Bass and low mid range is rather lost in the mix and as both Gab and Chris say the mix sounds thin and it also a little like it was recorded in a long tunnel. Related to this your instrument balance and positions needs some work - drums are too low and lack power, etc. -------------------- Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com
Be friends on facebook with us here. We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes: Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo. |
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#14
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
Thanks again people for the nice comments
![]() Nice composition and playing/singing but +1 with Gab's comments on the mix - it does need some more attention. You need to not just consider the vox mic but the preamp that is being use and you should consider using a compressor on it. To some extent though you need a more consistent recording and performance with attention to mic technique. This isn't questionng whether she has a nice voice and can sing but on being able to hold, position and work a mic appropriately. Vox needs de-essing quite a bit as well. With reverb - you can either use reverb as an obvious effect or as ambience. In the recording, to me, the vox reverb here is used as an effect and IMHO it doesn't work. I'd suggest that you use reverb on this recording more as abience and be more subtle with it. Bass and low mid range is rather lost in the mix and as both Gab and Chris say the mix sounds thin and it also a little like it was recorded in a long tunnel. Related to this your instrument balance and positions needs some work - drums are too low and lack power, etc. You're right. Now that you said it, as I listen to the song again I realize more and more that the vox reverb was waaaay too high, and it distracts from the vocals, and from the whole song. This is the first time I have the job of mixing the song and I have a lot to learn. I didn't use a compressor before (except when it was included in a Guitar Rig preset but then I didn't meddle with it), so I'll have to experiment with it and see how it can be used to give the best results... We also need to experiment with the microphone position (try to find the ideal distance from the microphone and the singer). I don't know if you listened to the SoundCloud or the YouTube version. The YouTube version is the latest one. We also realized that vocals (and drums) in the SoundCloud version needed decreasing so we did that in the video version. I don't know if it's enough though? ![]() And you're on the spot with the "tunnel" comment - yeah, I noticed that too, and it's mainly because of the excessive reverb on the vocals. We'll need to be more careful about that one, because it's really evident, especially in the song ending... I have a question for the others who record songs with vocals: What are the things you usually add to vocals? I know it depends from song to song but are there some ideas which work most of the time? I'd like to have a solid foundation from where I can start, and then I can add more variables etc. Thanks a lot mates. ![]() -------------------- |
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#15
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![]() Learning Roadie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 863 Joined: 24-June 11 From: Melbourne Member No.: 13.200 ![]() |
You should be proud of the work you did here Dino.... Guitar sounds badd ass, nice tone and of course Great chops mate.
![]() -------------------- Washburn N4 Wenge
Washburn N5 AT-100 ![]() |
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#16
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
You should be proud of the work you did here Dino.... Guitar sounds badd ass, nice tone and of course Great chops mate. ![]() Thanks a lot man ![]() -------------------- |
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#17
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![]() GMC:er ![]() Group: Members Posts: 180 Joined: 6-September 11 Member No.: 13.801 ![]() |
Thanks again people for the nice comments ![]() You're right. Now that you said it, as I listen to the song again I realize more and more that the vox reverb was waaaay too high, and it distracts from the vocals, and from the whole song. This is the first time I have the job of mixing the song and I have a lot to learn. I didn't use a compressor before (except when it was included in a Guitar Rig preset but then I didn't meddle with it), so I'll have to experiment with it and see how it can be used to give the best results... We also need to experiment with the microphone position (try to find the ideal distance from the microphone and the singer). I don't know if you listened to the SoundCloud or the YouTube version. The YouTube version is the latest one. We also realized that vocals (and drums) in the SoundCloud version needed decreasing so we did that in the video version. I don't know if it's enough though? ![]() And you're on the spot with the "tunnel" comment - yeah, I noticed that too, and it's mainly because of the excessive reverb on the vocals. We'll need to be more careful about that one, because it's really evident, especially in the song ending... I have a question for the others who record songs with vocals: What are the things you usually add to vocals? I know it depends from song to song but are there some ideas which work most of the time? I'd like to have a solid foundation from where I can start, and then I can add more variables etc. Thanks a lot mates. ![]() good primer for vocal mixing vox mix 96 vocal mixing tips how to record vocals the song is great btw and your playing is very good. congrats This post has been edited by ItSME3: Jan 24 2012, 01:10 PM |
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#18
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![]() Moderator - low level high stakes ![]() Group: GMC Senior Posts: 6.173 Joined: 27-June 07 From: Espania - Cadiz province Member No.: 2.194 ![]() |
... I have a question for the others who record songs with vocals: What are the things you usually add to vocals? I know it depends from song to song but are there some ideas which work most of the time? I'd like to have a solid foundation from where I can start, and then I can add more variables etc. ... Recording vocals : I add very little at recording. Use a good mic preamp and mic - ideally the best that you can, my own preference tends to be a Neve preamp with a Neumann. Use a pop shield and if necessary a screen. With vocalists it matters whether the mic is in line or above or below the line of the mouth, so experiment with positioning. Most modern vocalists have little mic technique so put the mic on a stand in a shock mount and try and keep the vocalist from handling the stand and/or mic. I prefer the vocalist to stand when singing. At recording you may well need to use a compressor as a vocalist can have a very large dynamic range and also be conservative with your levels. Personally I wouldn't EQ at recording and I'd also avoid adding any reverb at this stage. However if you do want to EQ at recording then you should be HPF'ing out the bass end, which will also help with plosives. (It can also help to turn the mic slightly off axis but it depends on the mic and pattern.) If they are still a problem then either balance mask them or fade edit them. Eq etc should mainly be done at mix down. At mixing you should ensure that the main vox is a focus of the track and so there should be space for it to shine thorugh clearly. That means eq'ing and positioning all the other instruments around it. For lead vox I'd go for at least 8 takes so that I can compile and layer the performance from the takes. Once you've done this then you will probably have to use automated fader rides and some careful compression to accent. Contrary to what most musicians believe Autotune - if done in moderation - is your friend for vocals. Just don't over do it. Backing vox I'd use parallel comp and Haas plus some reverb for ambience but possibly blended with some delay. Personally I'd keep the reverb down so that the main vox still sit forward in the mix. Almost certainly you'll need to de-ess in the upper mid - it's shocking how many recordings come here to be mastered that haven't been sufficiently de-essed at mixing. -------------------- Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com
Be friends on facebook with us here. We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes: Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo. |
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#19
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![]() Instructor ![]() Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 5.655 Joined: 11-October 09 From: Bogota Member No.: 7.694 ![]() |
That's some great advice by Tony. Really spot on.
The reverb is a little excessive in my opinion. It would be better to hear her voice a little more present in the mix, and taking out a bit more reverb will do the trick.. I think it's a nice effort, the drums also need a bit more punch, try using different samples for the kickdrum and snare, some that sound punchier and in your face. Compare it to a famous recording you like, sometimes transients take care of that, Logic has some built in ones -------------------- Visit my:
INSTRUCTOR PROFILE "If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music." Gustav Mahler Subscribe to my Youtube Channel here |
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#20
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![]() Learning Tone Seeker ![]() Group: Members Posts: 627 Joined: 7-August 11 From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina Member No.: 13.558 ![]() |
Thanks again people for the feedback, great piece of advice and links you're giving me. I believe the next song will have much better mix, after I take everything from here in consideration and try out different approaches.
We'll definitely use more layers from now on (we had about 2-3 for vocals, but now I see more is better), it gives you much more space and options to make the best mix. For example, in this song we recorded the vocals three times, and in the final mix we chose the first verse from the first recording, and the rest from the last recording. And I agree about mic positioning - we tried both above and below mouth mic position before settling for the latter choice... As for the drums, our drummer made them (I don't remember the name of the software he used), we might use EZ Drummer for the next song... I can't wait for the next song, there's so much to learn and apply. ![]() -------------------- |
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