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> Tempo Changes In Live Shows
Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 27 2012, 10:21 AM
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Have you guys ever noticed how band usually play songs a little bit faster when performing live? Have you ever done this? Usually when rehearsing, the drummer sticks to the original tempo, but when rushing on stage, there is always a possibility that one of the guys in the band won't keep up at that tempo. It is mainly happening in rock and metal music out of what I have noticed biggrin.gif

How are you dealing with this? Ever occurred to you?


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Sinisa Cekic
post Feb 27 2012, 12:04 PM
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Good observation biggrin.gif . I would say it is a rush of adrenaline, which is natural at live performances, audience is a great inspiration.On rehearsals you are focused on the timing and you haven't the chance to get wild, while in the studio- only the sound engineer has a right to it cool.gif . So,stage is our drainage !!!!

This post has been edited by Sinisa Cekic: Feb 27 2012, 12:05 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 27 2012, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Feb 27 2012, 11:04 AM) *
Good observation biggrin.gif . I would say it is a rush of adrenaline, which is natural at live performances, audience is a great inspiration.On rehearsals you are focused on the timing and you haven't the chance to get wild, while in the studio- only the sound engineer has a right to it cool.gif . So,stage is our drainage !!!!


Nicely said Sinisa! Although sometimes, there are certain parts where rushing does not feel so good, when a breakdown occurs, for instance and everything should feel REALLY heavy and balanced biggrin.gif in jazz for instance, I don't know if this rush happens so often.


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Sinisa Cekic
post Feb 27 2012, 01:23 PM
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Interesting, I think that jazz concerts are largely free-form-shows based on improvisation, so it is not unusual if the pace is accelerating or decreasing,that usually depending on the artist's inspiration or the current expression smile.gif, while in the rock,heavy music, that bass drum initiate everything and the audience perceives it literally as a heartbeat - Pump it and ecstasy is bigger laugh.gif !!!


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thefireball
post Feb 27 2012, 02:40 PM
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Hmmm I don't think I have ever noticed.


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PosterBoy
post Feb 27 2012, 02:44 PM
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I usually give my drummer evil looks and then we laugh and carry on playing.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 27 2012, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Feb 27 2012, 01:44 PM) *
I usually give my drummer evil looks and then we laugh and carry on playing.


laugh.gif that one never worked for me in the beginning biggrin.gif I remember the first drummer I ever played with biggrin.gif he started the song at about 120 BPM and we were close to 170 I think when we finished laugh.gif


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Alex Feather
post Feb 27 2012, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 27 2012, 09:21 AM) *
Have you guys ever noticed how band usually play songs a little bit faster when performing live? Have you ever done this? Usually when rehearsing, the drummer sticks to the original tempo, but when rushing on stage, there is always a possibility that one of the guys in the band won't keep up at that tempo. It is mainly happening in rock and metal music out of what I have noticed biggrin.gif

How are you dealing with this? Ever occurred to you?

Good topic! Usually at the rehearsal drummer is playing with a click and when it goes to the live show click is off it gives this live feeling to it!
In the end of the day it all depends on the drummer and bass player if you have a good rhythm section it feels like you are behind the wall and you can play anything and it will sound good!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 27 2012, 06:55 PM
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This is a very interesting topic Cosmin. My expercience is curious regarding this with my band. I remember that when we were playing the songs from our first album we were happy with it but one day we played in an opened place in the evening and we felt that the songs were soooo slow. Since that day we started to play all the old songs with 5 bpm more and it always sound good. It seems that the adrenaline of playing live makes us need faster tempos.

here you have an example of a song from the first album in its studio and live versions.






When we recorded the second album, we tried to have more "live" tempos so we can play most of the songs at the same tempo than the album and it's ok.

We always play with metronome that's why the drummer uses in ears.





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Gitarrero
post Feb 27 2012, 07:11 PM
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Yeah, happened all the time with my old band, but only with faster songs.
I also think it happens to all rock bands, I've especially noticed it during Green Day shows. But all the guys play at the same speed, so it's okay wink.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 27 2012, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Feb 27 2012, 03:11 PM) *
Yeah, happened all the time with my old band, but only with faster songs.
I also think it happens to all rock bands, I've especially noticed it during Green Day shows. But all the guys play at the same speed, so it's okay wink.gif



what about the Ramones? biggrin.gif





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SirJamsalot
post Feb 27 2012, 07:38 PM
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We don't use a metrinome on stage so depending on the mood, one night will be faster than another.Depends on energy. Given the stuff we play doesn't have any shredding solos, this isn't a problem. Now if we were attempting to do something that requires some shredding, I would definitely insist the drummer start us off with the right tempo because there's a huge difference between 130 bpm and 135 if you've been practicing your solo to 130! biggrin.gif

But we have done summer of 69 at double speed for fun! It's actually more fun fast, but if the audience is older, they generally don't appreciate desecrating Bryan Adam's song like that biggrin.gif



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Ben Higgins
post Feb 28 2012, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 27 2012, 09:21 AM) *
Usually when rehearsing, the drummer sticks to the original tempo,


Haha, I wish I could say that was the case but the drummers I played with have always been all over the place no matter whether it was rehearsal or playing a gig !

Sounds like your guys are real professionals, though wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 28 2012, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Feb 27 2012, 06:11 PM) *
Yeah, happened all the time with my old band, but only with faster songs.
I also think it happens to all rock bands, I've especially noticed it during Green Day shows. But all the guys play at the same speed, so it's okay wink.gif


Yeah yeah, it usually goes on in punk bands biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Feb 28 2012, 09:36 AM) *
Haha, I wish I could say that was the case but the drummers I played with have always been all over the place no matter whether it was rehearsal or playing a gig !

Sounds like your guys are real professionals, though wink.gif


Those drummers! laugh.gif I would go crazy without disciplined drummers, really!

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Feb 27 2012, 06:38 PM) *
We don't use a metrinome on stage so depending on the mood, one night will be faster than another.Depends on energy. Given the stuff we play doesn't have any shredding solos, this isn't a problem. Now if we were attempting to do something that requires some shredding, I would definitely insist the drummer start us off with the right tempo because there's a huge difference between 130 bpm and 135 if you've been practicing your solo to 130! biggrin.gif

But we have done summer of 69 at double speed for fun! It's actually more fun fast, but if the audience is older, they generally don't appreciate desecrating Bryan Adam's song like that biggrin.gif


Aside from the solos, if you play with a lot of rhythmic formulas in your songs, that would be problematic as well - everyone should execute things pretty tightly at a high tempo and that can go wrong many times even at normal tempos sometimes!

QUOTE (Alex Feather @ Feb 27 2012, 04:50 PM) *
Good topic! Usually at the rehearsal drummer is playing with a click and when it goes to the live show click is off it gives this live feeling to it!
In the end of the day it all depends on the drummer and bass player if you have a good rhythm section it feels like you are behind the wall and you can play anything and it will sound good!


Totally agree on that one Alex! biggrin.gif I was blessed with good rhythmic sections in both my bands, Voodoo and Aria, thankfully biggrin.gif


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derper
post Feb 29 2012, 04:39 AM
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Also, it can depend....I saw the Dan Balmer Trio ("Go By Train") last night here in Portland at jimmy Mak's, and though there is some improv fuel, they are VERY tight on tempo and such. In my experience, a great jazz drummer will hold tempo better than most, unless directed to do otherwise. They also follow directions better than most drummers!! wink.gif


QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Feb 27 2012, 04:23 AM) *
Interesting, I think that jazz concerts are largely free-form-shows based on improvisation, so it is not unusual if the pace is accelerating or decreasing,that usually depending on the artist's inspiration or the current expression smile.gif, while in the rock,heavy music, that bass drum initiate everything and the audience perceives it literally as a heartbeat - Pump it and ecstasy is bigger laugh.gif !!!



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 27 2012, 05:46 AM) *
laugh.gif that one never worked for me in the beginning biggrin.gif I remember the first drummer I ever played with biggrin.gif he started the song at about 120 BPM and we were close to 170 I think when we finished laugh.gif


So....that guy would have been FIRED!! Kidding. But really, to speed up THAT much during a song, probably fired. tongue.gif

With EMULATOR, tempos are very important!! And extra 5-10bpm's on Contra can literally destroy that song. Luckily, our drummer is virtually a metronome. I CAN'T catch him speeding up on any of our recordings! It's amazing. I guess that's what it takes to get your own Vic Firth signature model stick!! (No kidding)

Other than that, with most of my other projects, it's not a huge issues. Also, we'll get to know the set and if my drummer likes to start fast, I'll give him a quick count as to where the "groove" is, so he doesn't rush.


I find that this "tempo issue" is certainly more common with beginner/intermediate drummers. I think it's essential for drummers to hit this issue head on, and early. Fundamentals are everything, when it comes to top-notch drumming. Drum solo's don't matter much, it's stick control, tempo control and dynamics that matter, in my opinion. And if a drummer is speeding up more that 10bpm in a song, that's a red-flag that he/she needs to focus on the fundamental of keeping good time.

And though rare, I have seen a few excellent drummers using a metronome/earphone to get on a proper tempo before a song. Virtually un-noticable to the crowd if done quickly.



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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 29 2012, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (derper @ Feb 29 2012, 03:39 AM) *
Also, it can depend....I saw the Dan Balmer Trio ("Go By Train") last night here in Portland at jimmy Mak's, and though there is some improv fuel, they are VERY tight on tempo and such. In my experience, a great jazz drummer will hold tempo better than most, unless directed to do otherwise. They also follow directions better than most drummers!! wink.gif







So....that guy would have been FIRED!! Kidding. But really, to speed up THAT much during a song, probably fired. tongue.gif

With EMULATOR, tempos are very important!! And extra 5-10bpm's on Contra can literally destroy that song. Luckily, our drummer is virtually a metronome. I CAN'T catch him speeding up on any of our recordings! It's amazing. I guess that's what it takes to get your own Vic Firth signature model stick!! (No kidding)

Other than that, with most of my other projects, it's not a huge issues. Also, we'll get to know the set and if my drummer likes to start fast, I'll give him a quick count as to where the "groove" is, so he doesn't rush.


I find that this "tempo issue" is certainly more common with beginner/intermediate drummers. I think it's essential for drummers to hit this issue head on, and early. Fundamentals are everything, when it comes to top-notch drumming. Drum solo's don't matter much, it's stick control, tempo control and dynamics that matter, in my opinion. And if a drummer is speeding up more that 10bpm in a song, that's a red-flag that he/she needs to focus on the fundamental of keeping good time.

And though rare, I have seen a few excellent drummers using a metronome/earphone to get on a proper tempo before a song. Virtually un-noticable to the crowd if done quickly.


VERY good points here my friend! Both my drummers are playing with metronomes and one of them usually rehearses with a metronome when we play our songs, so he internalizes the tempo in such a way that on stage he becomes the metronome without having to listen to one. This dude (we play together in Voodoo) is the son of one of Romania's most famous drummers - but he overcome his dad's abilities if you ask me wink.gif as long as his dad's taking lessons from him laugh.gif

The other one is a very young and talented dude (only 21 years old), he lacks experience on stage as aside 'Mozart Rocks!' ARIA is his first true band, but he makes up through an incredible display of discipline and professionalism.

I had the opportunity of having awesome drummers in the crews, as in modern metal music, in my opinion, the drummer is one of the most important elements. Bad drummer = you can't play modern metal.




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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 29 2012, 08:44 PM
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It depends from band to band, usually when band is more experienced, they hardly have problems of some members falling behind tempo. Experienced band works as a team, if they rush, they all rush, if they lean back, they all lean back. In general, rhythm section is providing the tempo, although a lead player can sometimes push things if needed. It requires experience tho, and many gigs played. And yes, on stage it's usually faster, but it requires measure/taste (experience)

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Feb 29 2012, 08:45 PM


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