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> Elhombre's Axe Laboratory
Cosmin Lupu
post May 4 2014, 08:50 PM
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Hey mate smile.gif

I listened to the recording with fresh ears (I only played acoustic versions of Pantera tunes so far) laugh.gif It sounds ok to me, so you have nothing to worry about smile.gif I know how it feels with those low end notes so, it's always a good idea to listen in the morning when your ears are not tired and fresh after a good night's rest.

Do that, when you are in doubt and you will discover a lot of things smile.gif

About the sound - man, in this style, there are A LOT of elements which matter: guitar, amp, pickups and A LOT of editing smile.gif I mean, A LOT, so don't worry, the best way to figure out things is to listen to live versions of these tunes and you will see that they can't replicate that tightness.

There's only ONE band I've seen live so far that can sound EXACTLY like on the record in this genre and that's Meshuggah smile.gif They are inhuman!


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ElHombre
post May 4 2014, 11:38 PM
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Okay, yeah I heard that, the recordings are super tight but not live.
But yeah is there a way to find out I my 7 string can "djent" you know

I did not buy it only for djent, but I see now that most modern metal guitars are ebony fretboard, i have rosewood.
I also have standard scale.

Frankly, I think my guitar is more like a shredding 7 string ment for standard tuning.
But I cant see that being a problem.

Now players go these big scale guitars with twisted frets and everything


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ElHombre
post May 5 2014, 05:27 AM
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Hmm this is strange.
I have almost sorted out all rythm parts and its feels great and their ready for speed.
But my guitar sounds out of tune...

I have expermiented like crazy, is the song between the notes or something or whats up?


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 5 2014, 04:43 PM
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Frankly, I think you are over thinking stuff smile.gif

But if you want to see all the elements involved:

- touch - left hand
- attack - right hand
- muting
- processing
- pickups
- guitar

If you read stuff about what these guys use in respect to every aspect above, you will get close to the desired tone smile.gif I have a friend that managed to get a djent tone out of a Les Paul which he downtuned so, don't worry, ok? Having a 7 string already gets you one big step ahead!


QUOTE (ElHombre @ May 4 2014, 10:38 PM) *
Okay, yeah I heard that, the recordings are super tight but not live.
But yeah is there a way to find out I my 7 string can "djent" you know

I did not buy it only for djent, but I see now that most modern metal guitars are ebony fretboard, i have rosewood.
I also have standard scale.

Frankly, I think my guitar is more like a shredding 7 string ment for standard tuning.
But I cant see that being a problem.

Now players go these big scale guitars with twisted frets and everything



QUOTE (ElHombre @ May 5 2014, 04:27 AM) *
Hmm this is strange.
I have almost sorted out all rythm parts and its feels great and their ready for speed.
But my guitar sounds out of tune...

I have expermiented like crazy, is the song between the notes or something or whats up?


I don't think it's the same case as with Pantera - you know the downtuned to quarters and such smile.gif

What you could do, is to find a passage which is static on one chord and tune the string according to it - you will see if it's the case of the above mentioned theory wink.gif


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ElHombre
post May 6 2014, 12:02 AM
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This sounds like "almost" right?
I mean, I sound out of tune here, but its still the right note you know..
right now I only use the 7th string but I wanna use the 5th as well to add more power.

So what do we make of this, what does your ear say smile.gif
The G in the beginning sounds right.. then its like, it sounds out of tune.
But I have tried other notes as well just to see if my brain plays tricks on me but
everything sounds wrong then and this is the most "right"

I can also assure my intonation is correct!
Which could have been an error since I use a 7th string with pretty thin gauge .64

If I only solved this I could throw a cover up in just days..
something I have never been good at but now I set out motivated to learn and did so, all grooves are down smile.gif

EDIT: Dropped the G string just slightly and it sounds about right? But still just a little out sometimes especially on that Eb.
Second take (this) is "test122222"

This post has been edited by ElHombre: May 6 2014, 12:52 AM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  test1112.mp3 ( 664.49K ) Number of downloads: 22
Attached File  test122222.mp3 ( 547.75K ) Number of downloads: 21
 


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 6 2014, 12:34 PM
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Hey mate - I listened to both examples, but the difference is almost imperceptible, I mean, I am forcing myself to hear it, but it's not there.. Is my hearing not right? I have no idea, but the last test will be done with my in ear monitors - those never ever lie, so I will let you know once I get to the rehearsal room and get them.

Otherwise, as I said the guitar seems in tune, but if you say that there's a problem in other passages... I really don't know what to say.. Maybe, someone in the forum bumped into this issue at some point? I think it would be a good idea to post a topic in the Practice room as well smile.gif


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ElHombre
post May 20 2014, 11:11 PM
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Hello

Im almost done with my year abroad studying guitar, soon it will be back home and start working again and probably form a band and get my youtube channel going.

However I was thinking of a thing we could work on.

You know, I learn all this advanced chords, do all these exercises, learn and play, and compose music.
But what I feel would be more important than it all, would be to pratice

Timing
Knowledge of drums and time signatures
Overall groove

If this something we could work on do you think?

I mean, those things seems more important for me to learn rather than the theroteical stuff like playing over changes etc.
I play modern metal and instrumental rock and I use a more scalar based playing, although im still learning ive come a good way there.

So rythm would be the best pratice to make?
To be able to write killer riffs..

What do you say


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 21 2014, 07:19 AM
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Hey mate smile.gif

Well, if you want to study rhythm and expand your vocabulary, the best way is to follow what you did so far:

- sort out your favorite rhythmic phrases and riffs
- learn GMC rhythm based lessons
- modify the above in accordance to your ideas in order to come up with fresh personal stuff

Of course we can work on that - I can recommend rhythm based GMC lessons and then after you learn then, you can apply the above mentioned ideas wink.gif

What say you?


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ElHombre
post Jun 5 2014, 03:58 AM
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Sounds good Cosmin, I will have a little break now in july now that college has ended so Il be back
improving myself in august.

Right now Im preparing a few song ideas for a solo gig im doing.

Im trying to build tones, rythm and solo ready for professional recording, home recording and playing.

Well, I do what sounds good. And have the rythm to to be set so its almost clipping, but not.

Are there any "rules" for that or is "sounds good = good" right here?

Ill show you a few samples soon

The thing about my device is that I have everything in it
So I use EQ, gate etc. so I dont need to do any DAW effects

Is that good or should you just use an amp and change the tone in the daw?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 5 2014, 07:04 AM
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Hey mate,

I usually don't tweak the tone in the DAW - I only add effects, but the tone itself is what I get out of the AMT or any mic'ed amp for that matter.

This is not compulsory tho - I know people that tweak things in the DAW with an EQ for instance, but, as you said, it's a matter of what you are looking for/ want from your tone smile.gif

There is no fixed recipe, but some guidelines which experience and other more experienced people can tell you about and based on those you can explore, because after all if it sounds good, it is good smile.gif

Let's hear the samples wink.gif


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ElHombre
post Oct 22 2014, 12:37 AM
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Hey Cosmin.
Im doing a few metal covers over pop songs.
Its been done a million times, I know.
But Im doing it now with some popular tunes from my country thats on the radio and so on.
So I thing it can be a good series.

Ill attatch an idea I have been working on and u can tell me what you think.
Not happy with the tone here.
Kind of looking for more of a "djent" tone you know for that low Ab note but it becomes so muddy.. hard

Anyway, song key is in Eb

Its the pre chorus and chorus I have done here

The noodly pre chorus riffing maybe isnt so appropriate but I thought
Its a metal cover over a pop song anyway xD
Attached File(s)
Attached File  popmetal1.mp3 ( 688.98K ) Number of downloads: 16
 


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 22 2014, 08:49 AM
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Hey Erik!

This doesn't sound bad at all, but it's more like a lead type of re-orchestration - this could end up with a nice layering idea:

- keep the arpeggio based melody that you have created
- try to write a drum groove that can go well with the original track, by complementing it and adding the 'djent' factor wink.gif
- try to record the riffage with a dry rhythm tone - not too much gain, but double the guitar tracks and see what you get.

As an inspiration, I have something for ya:



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ElHombre
post Oct 22 2014, 01:46 PM
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Hey cosmin
my recording had 2 recorded tracks panned right and left.

Anyway, I thought the same thing, its kind of a lead thing I am doing.
This songs has some keys in it it sounds, So I think the next step could be to identify these chords.

I got the key of the song so I should get the progression as well.
So I can create more of a harmony with the guitar?
And then look at the lead stuff perhaps?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 23 2014, 08:19 AM
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Hey again Erik!

If you want it to get the djenty feel, you should definitely 'dress it up' with some riffs, sustained by bass guitar and drums. I have posted the song above with a clear intention of showing you what this guy did - he kept Katy's vocals, but he completely re-orchestrated the rest of the song smile.gif That's pretty much what you could do, if the song above is the sort of result you want to aim for. Now, I am VERY curious on how to isolate the vocals, or any other instrument for that matter, but it's something that I have no knowledge of how to do... yet smile.gif I will write a message to this dude and ask him how he did it and if he will tell me, I will definitely share with you smile.gif What do you think?


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ElHombre
post Oct 23 2014, 03:41 PM
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Sounds cool cosmin
All though I dont have the knowledge to write correct drums soon.
I can almost only learn by doing and in person, I will move to a city soon and get some help with that in my home.

This will be the first of hopefully many covers so I was thinking of just "doing" something, u know biggrin.gif
but it has to be good ofc, it doesnt have to be djent either although its very cool to mix with pop.

Anyway send that message would be cool biggrin.gif something for the future when my knowledge about recording is bigger

I can of course try with drums as well.
Right now im gonna try to nail the progression and make some kind of harmony, what do you think?

My playing over the chorus is cool but maybe not so welcoming for the ear, maybe start with something more simple, just chords


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 24 2014, 09:43 AM
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Hey again Erik smile.gif

Indeed, figuring out the harmonic progression by using simple chords, will give you the necessary basis on which you can build up the riffage. After you get the progression, you need to listen to the song and see what sort of a groove it has - you can effectively sort out the drum line and write it using a virtual drum kit in your DAW. If you do that, you will have the basis for a drum groove that will serve the riffs you will build based on the harmonies you found in the first place wink.gif Out of what I remember - you have written drum grooves before, correct?

It's how I'd do it anyway - I also plan on doing such a re-orchestration with a big national Romanian hit song - a pop one - biggrin.gif Let's see if the guy answers my question wink.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Oct 24 2014, 09:43 AM


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ElHombre
post Oct 24 2014, 10:30 PM
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Yo cosmin
I have never written drums as I quite never understood it.
I was thinking of getting a new DAW and learning it first, and having someone come to my home and learning me to write drums.
Its to hard for me to learn by internet and such.

Anyway.. got the chords biggrin.gif

Now, im playing in harmony but its kind of boring.
I liked the chorus melody I made from the start, but It didnt follow the chords so it became more of a lead thing.

Now that I know the chords perhaps I can make it go along with the chords in the song?

What do you think?

Little edit:
At one part of the chorus, that noodly litttle riff sounds amazing to my ears, atleast when i play it.
It kind of follows her voice I think and I end with the last chord becomes really cool.
So I think I can develop that and change it around so it becomes like that through the whole chorus.

Also I made a 2nd verison of the chorus that is more "correct" but not as ear appealing.
Here I follow all chords.
The thing is it starts kinda with 3 chords in a row so I just play the notes and pump the Ab String.
Then the chord is Ab so I can djent for a while on that chord xD then end it with 2 power chords.
Follow the harmony and sounds alright.

Just not as cool as the first riff I made so I will look into developing it!

This post has been edited by ElHombre: Oct 25 2014, 04:28 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 25 2014, 06:10 PM
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Hey mate, I am sure you can learn online smile.gif But it's important to study and understand your DAW first - how to write down MIDI instruments in general, because it's pretty much the same principle. Have you been introduced to the grid in which you write virtual instruments, so far?

The grid is being divided into bars and rhythmic subdivisions if you look at it horizontally and on the vertical perspective, you will notice the piano keys, which can each bear a drum element in this case smile.gif Have you assigned a virtual instrument to a MIDI track until now?

What sort of a DAW are you planning to use?

Hmmm, I think that if you manage to underline the harmonies with the riff, you could try to follow the idea you tried initially.. The idea is to explore all the ideas that come to mind and try them all. In the end, you are the only one deciding what you like best wink.gif

Hah! Now I noticed what you have added some notes here - but no recordings wink.gif Maybe you have forgotten to add those biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Oct 25 2014, 06:28 PM


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ElHombre
post Oct 27 2014, 03:29 PM
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Yes I know about that but after that not much smile.gif
Its mostly my limited knowledge about drums itself.
And I get confused with how to set it up and so on.

In the track I posted here "popmetal" you can here that in the end, around 0:34 the thing I do there sounds
brilliant and in Line with the songs.

That cause its based around a Eb Maj 7 arpeggio with an extra note. And its some kind of chords or inversion with E, somehow.
Not sure about that but in the section it falls in line good.

So I was thinking of doing that, and idea of that but different arpeggios to make it in harmony.
Now I have to expreiment with this I guess.
I did not become good cause the "appropriate" arpeggios didnt sound at all good ohmy.gif
strange..

Lets analyze this:
Chorus chords:
Cm, Gm, G# G#, A#, Cm

That the first line. Then the second one start with the 4 chords the same but im unsure about the final three chords.
Something like a Bb, Eb, and a Bb one octave lower, not sure

However the second ending sounds good with my arpeggio.
But I cant make the other sections sound good with any arpeggio at the moment


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 28 2014, 08:34 AM
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Hey Erik - regarding the arpeggios smile.gif I would like to talk to you about not writing music with the aid of theory.

Music has to be written creatively and by allowing things to get out there ontheir own - if the arpeggios you found fit well and sound to your liking, you shouldn't obsess with the idea that you should do something by using theory. If something works and ESPECIALLY if you like it, leave it be - it works already and it doesn't need fixing. Theory, in this case, allows you to understand what's going on with what you played - what is the relationship between the chords and the arpeggios you played? That is the question which you can ask yourself - analyze things and then see if you may want to tweak the lines by changing a note or two wink.gif

About drum writing - the best exercise that I can think of, is emulating a drum line in a song. I think you would like to see this video wink.gif



What do you think?


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