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> "improv" In Metal?
derper
post Mar 9 2012, 04:45 AM
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Ok, I don't listen to metal much anymore. I did. In fact, Megadeth "Rust in Piece" was a life-changing album for me as a little kid. I was pure rock/metal through high school, but eventually turned towards "jamband" crap for a while. Now, I love playing funk/jazz/country.....almost anything really.

But I've been having fun exploring the metal lessons and techniques here. I still have a LONG way to go, to become a decent metal guitarist. It's a whole other beast, compared to what I currently play. Different techniques, and approach.

The other day I started wondering.... "is there ever really much room in modern metal, for improv in the solos"? Obviously, I know there are SOME bands doing it. But upon more consideration, I was thinking that most metal bands/guitarists don't quite "cut lose" and feel it out in a solo. I would think they usually have most of it "written", or at least have some go-to licks and runs.

One reason it....speed! While busting an improv jazz solo, you can slow it down and just hit one note to change things up. You build it up. Tension, and release. Whereas (in my opinion....but I'm still here "asking" really) I would think the majority of metal solos are showcasing chops, speed and technique. So there isn't much space to just "improv" a solo, because it would ultimately just sound like you have less chops.

Am I somewhat correct? Again, I hate to just "generalize" a whole HUGE genre of music, like the many facets of metal, but is there some truth to my statement/question? Either way, it's time for me to man-up, and learn the ways of the METAL! mad.gif


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Alex Feather
post Mar 9 2012, 10:38 AM
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Well metal is a style of music that you kinda have to stay in frames with techniques and scales
If you will step out from them you will loose the whole idea
Usually improvisation is based on phrases that have been pre-written
So say for example you have 15 metal phrases
You can switch them around and make your improvisation based on it


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Ben Higgins
post Mar 9 2012, 11:37 AM
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Well I think there is scope in any type of music for improv, especially metal solos. Whilst it may not be a whole 'band improv' situation like in the fusion world, the guitarist could still treat each solo spot as improv.

Whilst these will not be classed as 'modern metal' it's well known that Yngwie improvises 99% of his solos (although, granted that he still sticks to his basic licks and style)

Jeff Waters of Annihilator doesn't plan his solos. Kirk Hammett improvised the solos on Death Magnetic. Those are the ones I can immedaitely think of. However I think I know what you mean.. there's a difference between just 'winging it' in the studio and busting out loads of licks and then truly improvising and going to different places. Setting up a mood, playing with it and then taking it to a different level.

I dunno. It's a great point though and I think it could definitely happen smile.gif


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derper
post Mar 9 2012, 10:39 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. In fact, the lack of improvisation/structure of the solos and composition, is what is turning me BACK on to metal! I think I could benefit from playing more, structured solos, as opposed to the years I've spent on blues/funk/jazz/country styles...many of which encourage you to create a solo in the moment (I mainly play live gigs, and practice too of course!) over the chord changes.



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The Uncreator
post Mar 10 2012, 02:53 PM
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We got Jeff Loomis in Metal, so there ya go! laugh.gif

There are a ton of amazing players in metal when it comes to soloing, one of my favorites has got to be Muhammad Suicmez from Necrophagist.



quality gets better during solo, amazing how every video of him performing live is spot on, always.
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derper
post Mar 10 2012, 07:38 PM
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That was an amazing solo! More "loose" and certainly combining some "improv" freedom. I still love that metal still sticks to more solid riffs and licks, even during the improv solo moments.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 10 2012, 09:05 PM
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This is a good topic. Ben's ideas is exactly what comes to my mind when we talk about metal solos. There are different approaches but in most of the songs the players create very structured solos. A good example is also Yngiwe Malmsteen that uses to have a very defined section and then a jamming section in most of his songs. He also improvises a lot during the rhythmic sections...



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The Uncreator
post Mar 10 2012, 09:19 PM
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Randomizations is best realized through careful and unconventional structuring, just look at Ron Jarzombek.
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bluelineman
post Mar 12 2012, 07:02 AM
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QUOTE (Alex Feather @ Mar 9 2012, 03:38 AM) *
Well metal is a style of music that you kinda have to stay in frames with techniques and scales
If you will step out from them you will loose the whole idea
Usually improvisation is based on phrases that have been pre-written
So say for example you have 15 metal phrases
You can switch them around and make your improvisation based on it


Very well said Alex.

I heard an interview with Kerry King of Slayer. He said when playing live he improvises his solos a lot. (I love Slayer's rhythms but their leads need a lot of work).
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 12 2012, 10:37 AM
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In the modern metal context for instance, rhythmic formulas and the band sounding 'as one' has become more popular than improvising, thus, I like treating things from two perspectives:

- composition - I am trying to play as tight as possible and interpret the piece alongside the band, without too much straying - I do believe that the power of a musical piece derives from this - don't try to be flashy and put yourself into the light just to prove how talented you are, but serve the song and make it shine smile.gif

- improvising - a jam is a jam and free speech in music is ALWAYS awesome biggrin.gif I like to meet up with friends and do this from time to time, for fun and learning new tricks and just feel free to play whatever feels nice at that moment.



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