Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Jazz Has Always Confused Me
PosterBoy
post Mar 15 2012, 10:05 AM
Post #1


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.425
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



I'm not a big fan of jazz, but I do love the chord melody stuff of the late Ted Greene, one guitarist was a genius without throwing that word around too freely.

So I've been learning about jazz chords and accompanyment. And I'm starting to understand some of the basics that used to confuse me.

When someone said a tune was basically a I vi ii V and I heard lots of different things going on and thought that it was more than 4 chords for now we don't even have to look into modulation

So a Basic progression

It's jazz so of course they'll add the 7ths in
I vi ii V
C Am Dm G
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7


First we can change the I to a iii (there's only one note different)

Cmaj7 - C E G B
Em7 - E G B D

C Am Dm G
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7

Next change changing the vi to a VI

Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7

Next tritone substitution for the VI


Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7


A tritone is an interval with 3 tones between it in this case in A7 the 3rd (C#) and the dom7 (G) which is the same tritone interval in
Eby between the 3rd (G) and 7th (C#) just switched places.
I've dedided to work out the tritone sub by changing the chord to a dominant 7th chord based on the flatted 5th .
So A7, find the 5th (E) flatted it (Eb) and make a dom7 chord Eb7.

Next we can do the same to the V


Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7


and lastly we can extend the 7th to 9ths, 13th, 9#5th etc


Cmaj7 Eb9 Dm13 Db7


So with a few basic changes being done we can cycle through, all considered 'normal' in a I vi ii V chord progression


Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7
Em7 A7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Cma7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7

This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Mar 15 2012, 10:06 AM


--------------------
Currently Working on

PosterBoy's Modern Riffing with Gabriel

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nihilist1
post Mar 15 2012, 10:34 AM
Post #2


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 974
Joined: 1-September 11
From: Chino Hills, California
Member No.: 13.756



QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Mar 15 2012, 09:05 AM) *
I'm not a big fan of jazz, but I do love the chord melody stuff of the late Ted Greene, one guitarist was a genius without throwing that word around too freely.

So I've been learning about jazz chords and accompanyment. And I'm starting to understand some of the basics that used to confuse me.

When someone said a tune was basically a I vi ii V and I heard lots of different things going on and thought that it was more than 4 chords for now we don't even have to look into modulation

So a Basic progression

It's jazz so of course they'll add the 7ths in
I vi ii V
C Am Dm G
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7


First we can change the I to a iii (there's only one note different)

Cmaj7 - C E G B
Em7 - E G B D

C Am Dm G
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7

Next change changing the vi to a VI

Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7

Next tritone substitution for the VI


Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7


A tritone is an interval with 3 tones between it in this case in A7 the 3rd (C#) and the dom7 (G) which is the same tritone interval in
Eby between the 3rd (G) and 7th (C#) just switched places.
I've dedided to work out the tritone sub by changing the chord to a dominant 7th chord based on the flatted 5th .
So A7, find the 5th (E) flatted it (Eb) and make a dom7 chord Eb7.

Next we can do the same to the V


Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7


and lastly we can extend the 7th to 9ths, 13th, 9#5th etc


Cmaj7 Eb9 Dm13 Db7


So with a few basic changes being done we can cycle through, all considered 'normal' in a I vi ii V chord progression


Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 A7 Dm7 G7
Em7 A7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 G7
Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Am7 Dm7 Db7
Cma7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 A7 Dm7 Db7
Cmaj7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7
Em7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7


It looks right to me(I love jazz). Are you working on any specific tune/standard that brought you to this conclusion?


--------------------
All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

Grandfather elk
Turned to me
And spoke:

Light the fire deep inside.
Light the fires!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Mar 15 2012, 10:50 AM
Post #3


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.425
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



I was watching a Jimmy Bruno lesson where he explains it all.

I think I might start to add some chord melody standards to my practice routine to off set the punk and Melodic hardcore!

I do have Ted Greens's Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progression books, I'd love to get to a point where they are actually useful to me rather the frightening!


--------------------
Currently Working on

PosterBoy's Modern Riffing with Gabriel

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nihilist1
post Mar 15 2012, 11:22 AM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 974
Joined: 1-September 11
From: Chino Hills, California
Member No.: 13.756



QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Mar 15 2012, 09:50 AM) *
I was watching a Jimmy Bruno lesson where he explains it all.

I think I might start to add some chord melody standards to my practice routine to off set the punk and Melodic hardcore!

I do have Ted Greens's Chord Chemistry and Modern Chord Progression books, I'd love to get to a point where they are actually useful to me rather the frightening!


Ted Greene's books are the best. There is actually an entire forum dedicated to them! I.. uh.. forgot the URL, but I am sure I can find it again. Let me know if you want it!

I actually use jazz in my black metal. It allows me to get interesting progressions and eerie sounds no one else really does. It makes it sound even more dark, and that's okay, hahaha. Some people don't like it, but they can go*insert expletive here* themselves. I like it, and that is enough for me.


--------------------
All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

Grandfather elk
Turned to me
And spoke:

Light the fire deep inside.
Light the fires!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Mar 15 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #5


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.425
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



I've found the forum on Ted Greene's site, this stuff really is a whole other language, you really can't just dabble in it!


--------------------
Currently Working on

PosterBoy's Modern Riffing with Gabriel

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 15 2012, 12:03 PM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Mar 15 2012, 10:51 AM) *
I've found the forum on Ted Greene's site, this stuff really is a whole other language, you really can't just dabble in it!


I would enjoy the link as well tongue.gif if you would be so kind biggrin.gif thank you!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nihilist1
post Mar 15 2012, 12:20 PM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 974
Joined: 1-September 11
From: Chino Hills, California
Member No.: 13.756



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 15 2012, 11:03 AM) *
I would enjoy the link as well tongue.gif if you would be so kind biggrin.gif thank you!


http://forums.tedgreene.com/

The thing is, you can dabble in jazz. Not to play jazz, but to use its influence in other styles of music. After I had transcribed one song and learned four of them, I was using strange chords I played by accident and creating interesting rhythms and progressions with them. They don't seem to make sense to most, but I am a very progressive player. sue me cool.gif

EDIT: You might want this, too. It is a great link. Check out the entire site as well.

http://www.tedgreene.com/teaching/default.asp

http://www.tedgreene.com/default.asp

This post has been edited by Nihilist1: Mar 15 2012, 12:21 PM


--------------------
All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

Grandfather elk
Turned to me
And spoke:

Light the fire deep inside.
Light the fires!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 15 2012, 12:31 PM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Mar 15 2012, 11:20 AM) *
http://forums.tedgreene.com/

The thing is, you can dabble in jazz. Not to play jazz, but to use its influence in other styles of music. After I had transcribed one song and learned four of them, I was using strange chords I played by accident and creating interesting rhythms and progressions with them. They don't seem to make sense to most, but I am a very progressive player. sue me cool.gif

EDIT: You might want this, too. It is a great link. Check out the entire site as well.

http://www.tedgreene.com/teaching/default.asp

http://www.tedgreene.com/default.asp


Thank you mate! smile.gif You know how crazy I am about interesting harmonies and sounds which aren't usually found in some genres biggrin.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Mar 15 2012, 12:52 PM
Post #9


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.425
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



In terms of Dabbling I meant the way it sucks you in with all the intrigue of chord subs, altered chords, common tone chord voicings, that before you know it you're wearing a sweater, you've grown a goatee and lusting over archtop guitars with f holes!!!


--------------------
Currently Working on

PosterBoy's Modern Riffing with Gabriel

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nihilist1
post Mar 15 2012, 12:52 PM
Post #10


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 974
Joined: 1-September 11
From: Chino Hills, California
Member No.: 13.756



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 15 2012, 11:31 AM) *
Thank you mate! smile.gif You know how crazy I am about interesting harmonies and sounds which aren't usually found in some genres biggrin.gif


Well, I believe that Jazz is the key to that. If you are seriously considering anything regarding Jazz, check out

http://www.jazzguitar.be

they even have an active forum! I lurk there once every few months, but it is a great community to be a part of. I haven't really been concentrating on Jazz since I am mastering all the material for Kranken Welpen and getting ready for the shows we will be playing soon, but as soon as I have all that taken care of, I will be back on the road to mastering Jazz.

For some reason, I find the rhythms more interesting than anything. Maybe it is because I find them harder to play biggrin.gif

Because of this, Emily Remler is my favourite Jazz guitarist. She and Wes Montgomery are all I need!

This post has been edited by Nihilist1: Mar 15 2012, 12:53 PM


--------------------
All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

Grandfather elk
Turned to me
And spoke:

Light the fire deep inside.
Light the fires!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Mar 15 2012, 12:56 PM
Post #11


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.425
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



I'm the same the lead playing in jazz doesn't interest me (at the moment anyhow) but the rhythm side and chord melody stuff is mindblowing


--------------------
Currently Working on

PosterBoy's Modern Riffing with Gabriel

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nihilist1
post Mar 15 2012, 02:13 PM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 974
Joined: 1-September 11
From: Chino Hills, California
Member No.: 13.756



QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Mar 15 2012, 11:56 AM) *
I'm the same the lead playing in jazz doesn't interest me (at the moment anyhow) but the rhythm side and chord melody stuff is mindblowing


I currently feel as if the rhythms aremore complex than the leads. Especially when Wes and Emily are taken into consideration. They use chords in their solos like its nothing. Not in the simplest of ways either. It blows my mind.

However, when I feel like learning Jazz solos and things like that, I always listen to Dizzy Gillespie and Miles Davis.


--------------------
All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

Grandfather elk
Turned to me
And spoke:

Light the fire deep inside.
Light the fires!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 16 2012, 08:55 AM
Post #13


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Got my eye on those links and I must say they will work out just wonderful for me smile.gif I have to find some time to read, having the guitar at hand smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alex Feather
post Mar 16 2012, 09:05 AM
Post #14


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 4.332
Joined: 21-November 11
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 14.398



Jazz is easy if you understand it
If you want to learn how to play jazz start with playing over ii-V-i cause every jazz song is based on it
I have 11 possible key changes you can download backing tracks and start practicing
here is the link
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=43443

Let me know if you have any questions!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th March 2017 - 09:02 AM