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> Mpaa Now Chasing Tabs
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 3 2007, 10:45 PM
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I just saw this:

http://www.guitartabs.com/nmpa.php

Guitar tabs is being threatened by the MPAA for copyright violations - seems like total stupidity. I wonder how this will affect other sites like UG?

For those who ask "Why can't we have a a lesson on XYZ solo" - this is why! Fortunatley Kris has wisely steered clear from that so I don't think GMC has anything to worry about ...


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 5 2007, 09:56 PM
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This topic has been on the wall for quite a while - and it is very depressive. MPA has successfully strangled most large tab sites.

UG is Russian based and have bought a lisence (ROMS) which covers the use of tabs/partiture. There is a similar Swedish lisence which does unfortunately not yet cover tabs - but which does cover streaming of audio/video. If this lisence develops to cover more it might become very interesting for us in the future.

GMC - as the site is today - is completely based on original material and we have no reasons for legal worries.

On a personal note, I think what MPA is doing (and recently RIAA which are about to kill internet radio, check out pandora.com) - is a very serious threat against the spreadning of online education. As the majority of all tabs truly are user generated, I do not think MPA has a case. But they do unfortunately, as they are big and tab-site owners stand alone.

When comparing tab content with all the copyright-violations at youtube, it is obvious that if tab sites could get some backup from Google this really wouldn't be an issue.


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Pavel
post Jun 5 2007, 10:00 PM
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I think GMC will do just fine as all the material here is our own work so there should be no problem!! I hope so...


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GroovinMastiff
post Jun 5 2007, 10:33 PM
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It's typical for these big music conglomerates to hassle the little guy just for the sake of doing it.

If independent music distribution channels such as internet radio are shut down, independent musicians are the ones who will most likely get the short end of it. They need every method out there to showcase their music for the public and to therefore even earn a living as a musician, and these major labels want to take these channels away so that some rich executives can get even richer. mad.gif
Kris is absolutely right in that these lawsuits hinder the musical exposure that public is getting, and if more people were exposed to decent music, the many talented musicians out there may be able to earn the funds necessary to further their career.

We'll have to wait and see what happens...Oh, and I think GMC will be perfectly safe since they're not using anyone else's material.

Anyway, I thought I'd get that off my chest.
Time to go practice...


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Ryan
post Jun 5 2007, 11:02 PM
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thats sad....10 years..and after all that...he might get shutdown..hmm idk..i think he will win..but if he doesnt...sad.gif that really sucks

i hate it how people can be so gay about things like this.....and they always try to find the littlest things!!!


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MickeM
post Jun 5 2007, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 3 2007, 11:45 PM) *
I just saw this:

http://www.guitartabs.com/nmpa.php

Guitar tabs is being threatened by the MPAA for copyright violations - seems like total stupidity. I wonder how this will affect other sites like UG?

For those who ask "Why can't we have a a lesson on XYZ solo" - this is why! Fortunatley Kris has wisely steered clear from that so I don't think GMC has anything to worry about ...

They shut down OLGA (a tab library) years ago, I think it's a crap load of BS but who can afford to fight the music industry?

All tabs are made from people listening to the songs and writing them down. Nothing(?) is stolen. And most tabs are different and quite a few even incorrect, are the incorrect ones also violating the copyright?
Can coverbands still play Metallica songs or is that a violation of Lars' rights?


Can't agree more with you Andrew, it's total stupidity.


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Stratman58
post Jun 6 2007, 08:20 AM
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United States of America, land of the free. Yeah right
Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but if companies like RIAA and MPAA continue their scandalous ways of picking out the small guys (or rather, their potential competition) then I see it perfectly acceptable that these sites pack up, and move their services to a country that welcomes guitar tablature, for example.


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Guitarman700
post Jun 6 2007, 05:08 PM
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Dave mustaine on capitol records:"I dont care if the f*cking Capitol records tower fell on its side and rolled into the ocean with everyone in it. I have never seen such a display of hateful, selfish, self-centered f*cks in my life."
Thats The Music industry.



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Jeff
post Jun 6 2007, 06:01 PM
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Not to worry GMC! I am now in the process of patening every single note in the musical spectrum. Soon I will own the rights to all notes ever played and will provide exclusive non-restrictive rights to anyone on GMC. It's all a part of the master plan to take control of the musical universe and free all guitarists from the Infidels! biggrin.gif
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AIB234
post Jun 6 2007, 06:12 PM
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As sad as this is... as said above, it's not new.

PowerTab used to have an extensive website which was shutdown.

I know it's still out there for download, but as far as I know, the original site is long gone.

And really, as hard as they try, they will never stop people from doing it. It may go down to a smaller scale for a while (ala Napster > Kazaa > BitTorrent for example), but it will always be back and there's always a new way. Period.


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kyeric
post Jun 8 2007, 02:38 PM
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They have forced MetalTabs to remove all of the access to their tabs. MetalTabs, however, is going to each and every band on their site and asking express permission to post tabs. For the most part, the bands that have replied to them have granted that permission.

All Naplam Records artists are available.

Bands that have DENIED MetalTabs permission to post tabs of their music:

ADX
Annihilator
Apocalyptica
Jason Becker
Gorgoroth
Impaled Nazarene
Lacuna Coil
Zakk Wylde

Of course, there are a few hundred bands, so most of them have either not been contacted or have not responded yet, but there are several bands(too many too list here) that have granted permission.


Also, if you are into brutal death metal, Rivers of Gore has plenty of tabs, too.

mysongbook.com had a HUGE collection of Guitar Pro tabs and they are still "working with" the powers that be.
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 8 2007, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE (kyeric @ Jun 8 2007, 03:38 PM) *
They have forced MetalTabs to remove all of the access to their tabs. MetalTabs, however, is going to each and every band on their site and asking express permission to post tabs. For the most part, the bands that have replied to them have granted that permission.

All Naplam Records artists are available.

Bands that have DENIED MetalTabs permission to post tabs of their music:

ADX
Annihilator
Apocalyptica
Jason Becker
Gorgoroth
Impaled Nazarene
Lacuna Coil
Zakk Wylde

Of course, there are a few hundred bands, so most of them have either not been contacted or have not responded yet, but there are several bands(too many too list here) that have granted permission.
Also, if you are into brutal death metal, Rivers of Gore has plenty of tabs, too.

mysongbook.com had a HUGE collection of Guitar Pro tabs and they are still "working with" the powers that be.


As far as I am concerned the bands seldomly own the pubisher right themselves - so even if some will give a written consent, I don't think it means a lot legally?

On the contrary some might not want to go against their publisher company - and therefore say no.


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fkalich
post Jun 8 2007, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jun 5 2007, 05:09 PM) *
They shut down OLGA (a tab library) years ago, I think it's a crap load of BS but who can afford to fight the music industry?

All tabs are made from people listening to the songs and writing them down. Nothing(?) is stolen. And most tabs are different and quite a few even incorrect, are the incorrect ones also violating the copyright?
Can coverbands still play Metallica songs or is that a violation of Lars' rights?
Can't agree more with you Andrew, it's total stupidity.


MickeM, i think you are a pretty smart guy. But you are not thinking this through. Protecting the property rights of corporations is fundamental to the public welfare. Sure, in Sweden you have serious redistribution of income (I assume you have high tax rates at the top), but 90% of your industrial production is in the private sector. This is the major reason Sweden does not have all the problems that so many other countries in Europe have today (such as France and Italy, not to mention Russia), trying to dig out of the deleterious effects after years of public ownership of industrial production.

This is the property of the corporations. I expect any court will judge it that way, European or American. Regardless of how they came up with it, they are selling (in some shape or form) the intellectual property of others. And that has to be stopped at some point, international organizations need to put a stop to this. This is theft of property, no different than any other type of theft, they have just been getting away with it. Sort of like how looters get away with breaking into store during a national disaster. No real difference.

I know it is nice to get stuff for free, but it is not yours, it is not the property of the web site. They have stolen it (as I expect court in any democracy would rule) and a person (or corporation has rights to its property).

I don't think anyone here would be very happy if they came home and found their guitars gone. If you expect your property rights to be respected, you really should respect those of others.

edit: i realize you point was that these tabs were made by listening, with errors. i doubt any court will find that a material difference, courts tend to view things by a "reasonable" criteria. These tabs are close enough to the real thing that this distinction is not significant. The corporation owns the music, has been reproduced in a fashion close enough to the original, to make these small differences immaterial. i expect that is how a judge would look at it, and that is reasonable.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 8 2007, 09:49 PM
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MickeM
post Jun 8 2007, 10:23 PM
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As you realized, I saw, I wasn't talking about copying music (to mp3, Cd ripping etc.). That's theft in my eyes.

It was merely the part where people make tabulature or for that matter typing down the lyrics. Music is art and people borrow from eachother all the time, if it wasn't for that music would have stopped evolving long ago.
I see a danger in this aswell since where does it stop? Will it be illeagal to cover a song, rehearse it or record yourself playing it? Will tribute bands be stopped since they play copyrighted songs? Can the vocalist in a coverband get sued if he keeps the typed lyrics in a binder?
That aswell as working out the chord progression or tabulature by listening is art and if the music industry can stop tabulature who knows where they will stop.

Who knows, they might go after bands that sound too much a like Metallica on myspace.
Who can afford to fight the music industry? They can afford to crush anyone they like. And I think it's wrong to give them one finger (read tabulature) since they will bite off the entire hand. For sure.


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kyeric
post Jun 8 2007, 11:38 PM
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fkalich, I see what you are saying. Bands like Metallica, Yngwie, etc probably do make quite a bit of money from selling their tab books, etc. However, when it gets to bands like Deeds of Flesh, Malevolent Creation, etc do these bands even sell sheet music?

It's just like the songs on the internet. How long did it take them to catch up with the times and actually sell music over the internet(legal Napster, iTunes, eMusic, etc)? The more you get the music out, the better, even if it isn't 100% correct. I have bought CDs based on listening to videos of guys playing songs on Rivers of Gore.

If I see a tab that seems to be something I could play, I'll by the CD if it is from a genre I like so I can play along with it.

Why does ALL tabs have to be targeted when in reality it is the bigger bands that are the ones selling the tab books/sheet music.?

Maybe I'm WAY off here and just don't know where to look for the music of bands that are a bit more out of the mainstream.
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blindwillie
post Jun 9 2007, 12:23 AM
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It's not as easy as stealing intelectual property kills development. I believe that 100 million amatuer musicians with free access to tabs/notes/lyrics/whatever is worth a h*ll of a lot more for music and to the musicindustry then 1000 big musicians with protected intelectual property. The same goes for computer software and many other stuff. Without piracy computers would not be available to as many people as it is today. The big boom in interest for them would never had happened and they wouldn't be as cheap as they are today. I'm in no way advocating piracy, I just want people to think through whom copyright and patents are supposed to benefit and why. My take on it is that these laws are to encourage people to produce non-material stuff, art, discoveries, invention, technologies, intelectual property. Is it really beneficial for anyone to lock down a good idea and prevent all of the mankind from developing it and take it further? I don't think so. Copyright and patents are oldfashioned and outdated and have to be re-thought. They are to "stifF" to be applied to the pace of the modern society. To continue on this road, where will it end? Can I take a picture of my wife besides a modern statue or painting? Must I make sure my neighbours cant hear me play AC/DC through the walls? Yes, these are absurd examples, but the lawyers are pushing it in an absurd direction.
I firmly belive that if the big labels had lowered the CD prizes once the initial costs where covered (as they said they would), lowered prize on DVD, cinemas and so on, and being quicker to use internet for distribution, the would have made a LOT more money then by sueing their customers. I love music, I love movies, I love going to the cinema. BUT now all these have to compete with a much wider spectrum of recreational activities and I simple choose to put my money in other stuff. And in the end, the customer is always right. If my customers don't want to buy my products anymore, the worst thing to do is to try to tie them to me, threaten and sue them. Several big companies have fallen using that approach. Instead I should rethink my own strategies and come up with a better product or a better way of selling it.

Wow, long post. I got carried away and I'm not sure I made sense all the time. And I'm pretty sure intelectual isn't spelled intelectual. Ah well, just discard it if it was unreadable. Just a few bytes wasted on a harddrive somewhere.


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