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> Amitai's Technique Builder
Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 2 2014, 09:26 AM
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Brooooo biggrin.gif Take it easyyy biggrin.gif This is not something that you achieve over night smile.gif

For instance - famous Dorian progression found in Michael Jackson's 'Billie Jean': Em F#m Gmaj F#m

This progression is a typical E Dorian progression - that means it has D major as a mother scale - try it on smile.gif

Starting as you stated is very good - no rush, give yourself time to assimilate - you've seen how nice it goes smile.gif

Let's hear the recordings wink.gif


QUOTE (Amitai Kedmi @ Feb 2 2014, 01:09 AM) *
Hey Cosmin, how was your weekend? Or is it not over yet?
Our week starts on Sunday, so mine is unfortunaly over sad.gif

It confuses me. If I'm playing 7 different modal vamps, what differs them from one another if they should start with the "nature of the progression" meaning the root notes chord? I don't really know if I'm sure how to make 7 different modal vamps.

It's a bit much, I'm sure you know. 6 different string, 7 different modes, parallel, derivative. I think I'll just begin with the first few
modes, in a parallel way, string by string. What do you think?

I'll try and upload some takes tomorrow, or in 2 days.



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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 3 2014, 02:44 AM
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Hey Cosmin.

Yeah you're right, I need to take my time with that.

I still have some questions.

-A modal vamp must revolve around the modes note? And begin with it? Meaning G Ionian, A Dorian, D Mixolydian etc...

-I tried to come up with a Locrian modal vamp, everything sounds.. uhm.. odd? I like diminished chords in the end of a progression,
not in the beginning of it. Can you give me an example of a Locrian modal vamp?

-And generally, when playing on one string, in a derivative way, when I'm switching modes I'm still playing the same intervals,
which are in the same place, only now referring to my new "base note"?
I mean I played G Ionian on the 1st string, and then played A Dorian on the 1st string. It looks the same, doesn't it? Just needs
to be handled differently?

Thanks!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 3 2014, 09:12 AM
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Hey man smile.gif

Let's take things at a time:

1) Yes, usually if you want a modal vamp, it's common to use the chord derived from the mode's first note in the beginning.

2) Sure thing - there's a trick here wink.gif Start with a m7b5 type chord as it's mellower than the diminished

I recommend this lesson for a good example regarding vamps: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-gu...-chords-lesson/

3) EXACTLY smile.gif Phrase by highlighting the characteristic scale degree of each mode over the afferent progression and things will fall into place.

I like your questions - it shows you are really paying attention to details and you are interested in learning for real! Keep rocking, man!


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 4 2014, 04:08 AM
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Hey Cosmin!

I don't know why, but I only played the first three strings, on the first three modes.
I feel that I need to understand the meaning of "highlighting the characteristic of different modes".

So I recorded myself playing a little over a B Phrygian vamp, with one finger, starting with the 1st string, then moving up to the 2nd string. I also recorded myself playing the Brazilian Choro lesson by Andre Nieri, over the slowest backing track he provided, 95BPM.
I know I have timing issues, mainly because my fingers are still adjusting to that style of playing. And of course the diminished arpeggio part, which I'm getting better at, but still screwing it up tongue.gif

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/brazilian-choro-95bpm
*I'm practicing it on a slower tempo than that.

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/b-phrygian-1st-2nd-string
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 4 2014, 09:25 AM
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Mate - the B Phrygian sounds amazing, BUT it doesn't sound Phrygian tongue.gif Can you please tell me what chords you used and what notes you aimed for? This is exactly the best example we need to discuss in order for you to understand how to highlight the characteristics of modes smile.gif

The Choro is well interpreted and I can see you have a nice feeling for this sort of music, but it needs time I guess, in order to come out perfectly.


QUOTE (Amitai Kedmi @ Feb 4 2014, 03:08 AM) *
Hey Cosmin!

I don't know why, but I only played the first three strings, on the first three modes.
I feel that I need to understand the meaning of "highlighting the characteristic of different modes".

So I recorded myself playing a little over a B Phrygian vamp, with one finger, starting with the 1st string, then moving up to the 2nd string. I also recorded myself playing the Brazilian Choro lesson by Andre Nieri, over the slowest backing track he provided, 95BPM.
I know I have timing issues, mainly because my fingers are still adjusting to that style of playing. And of course the diminished arpeggio part, which I'm getting better at, but still screwing it up tongue.gif

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/brazilian-choro-95bpm
*I'm practicing it on a slower tempo than that.

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/b-phrygian-1st-2nd-string



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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 4 2014, 10:15 AM
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I played over B Phrygian i IV VII III VII |BM|EM|AM|D|G|.
And yeah, that's why I said that I'm trying to understand what's going on. It's confusing.
The notes I played are B C D E F# G A.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 5 2014, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE (Amitai Kedmi @ Feb 4 2014, 09:15 AM) *
I played over B Phrygian i IV VII III VII |BM|EM|AM|D|G|.
And yeah, that's why I said that I'm trying to understand what's going on. It's confusing.
The notes I played are B C D E F# G A.


Bro smile.gif B Phrygian means: B C D E F# G A B - having G major as a the mother scale smile.gif What is B major doing there? If you harmonize the B Phrygian mode - you get Bm Cmaj Dmaj Em F#dim Gmaj Am

The i IV VII III VII progression is actually i iv vii III vii that means Bm Em Am Dmaj Am smile.gif Try these chords and play by emphasizing the B and C notes wink.gif


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 6 2014, 04:34 AM
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Hey Cosmin! Good morning.

I thought about a solution to me not quite understanding the way the Phrygian is supposed to sound.
So I went to youtube, typed Phrygian and saw a video there of someone playing it. I think I got it.

It really reminded me of something Arabic/minor harmonic. So I quickly recorded a middle easternish progression.
It was all done very quickly since I was half asleep already. So consider this when you listen (after I uploaded it I realized the timing on some
parts was terrible). But I guess the handling of the Phrygian is more important here than timing haha tongue.gif

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/b-phrygian-2
The first part is played with one finger, on the 1st string.
The second part is played with one finger, on the 2nd string.
On the last part I just did whatever I wanted at the time.


As for your last message -
I actually ment i iv vii III vi. But anyways I couldn't play over it with a Phrygian feel, it wasn't right for it.

And about the progression you suggested - Dmaj is D major 7 right? And if so why is it there? Isn't it supposed to be D or D7?
From what I know, G Ionian - G Am Bm C D Em F#dim G,
so wouldn't B Phrygian be - Bm C D Em F#dim G Am Bm ?


I also wanted to thank you for all your help. It isn't taken for granted. Much appreciated! smile.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 6 2014, 10:25 AM
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Hey man - no worries biggrin.gif

Your assumptions are correct and the D major is either D major either D7 smile.gif It can be both - don't forget that you can harmonize the scale, using only triads and not necessarily 7th chords.

The progression you recorded is very good and the ideas as well! wink.gif You understood things but you need to be certain of what you are doing. Let me know which is the actual unknown element to you at this exact point and we shall sort it out wink.gif Work on the timing to make things shine!


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 8 2014, 03:03 AM
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Hey Cosmin!

What do you mean by harmonizing the scale using traids?

I think that what is still a big mystery to me is the scales characteristic itself. I'm not familiar with the different sounds of each mode, and this is exactly what we're doing here, I guess. It's easier for me to play a certain mode in a vertical way, because then I see it as a seperate scale. When I play a mode in a horizontal way, I can't ignore the fact that it's basicaly the Ionian mode. But it's a barrier I want to break through.

Should I move on to the next few modes to get a more general feel for them, or should I stick with the first couple to get a more complete understanding of them? There's time and I'm not in a rush, but it frustrates me on some level tongue.gif

Thanks!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 8 2014, 08:16 AM
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Hello Amitai smile.gif

Before moving on, we need to deviate a little, by going back to harmonizing - please take a look over these lessons here:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Triads..._Series_Part_1/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Triads..._Series_Part_2/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Triads..._Series_Part_3/


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 10 2014, 01:43 AM
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Hey Cosmin!

Been working on what you gave me. I like it.
It seems like it wouldn't be as useful to harmonize with the inversions as with the regular 1-3-5 traids.
https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/triads-lesson-1
1-3-5

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/triads-lesson-2
1st inversion.

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/triads-lesson-3
2nd inversion.

I also recorded a first take on one of your lessons, Fairy's Dance.
https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/fairys-dance

Thanks! tongue.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 10 2014, 09:16 AM
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Hey man! biggrin.gif very proud!! You did a great job with the recordings!

Now - two things:

1) On the harmonizing lessons, have you understood WHY I wanted you to learn them? smile.gif

2) On the Fairy's Dance - you need a brighter, acoustic tone if you wish to make it sound genuine and focus a bit more on the harmonics at the end, so that you make them all ring out wink.gif


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 11 2014, 02:18 AM
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Hey Cosmin!

So first of all, how about this?
https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/fairys-dance-take-2

Second, if I'm not wrong, triads are the most minimal way to present a chord, meaning only the basic notes a chord "needs", just the 1-3-5 I know from piano, because it's still a melody when playing 2 notes at the same time. So it's basic harmonization, Meaning instead of playing Gmaj7-Am7-Bm7-Cmaj7-D7-Em7-F#dim-Gmaj7, it would be G-Am-Bm-C-D-Em-F#dim-G, in their most simplified shapes.
So a G major ii v i would be - |A-C-E| |D-F#-A| |G-B-D|.
Is that correct?

I would also like to work on bends and vibrato. Besides all the knowledge I'm gathering in the past weeks, I'd like to
work on some technique aswell. When I try to give the bend a little vibrato and feel, it gets messed up. So I figured I need to sharpen my bending and vibrato skills.

**I've recorded something I've been working on for the past couple of days, so you can get an idea.
https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/bens-blues

Thanks! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Amitai Kedmi: Feb 11 2014, 04:32 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 11 2014, 09:35 AM
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Amitai, you are a sharp dude!

Good going - all the assumptions are correct and you understood the idea, now that you are clear on harmonizing, you should have no trouble with various modal progressions - once you understand the way in which a major scale is harmonized, harmonizing a mode is just the same, only that you begin from that step of the major scale on which the mode begins. That becomes the first step of that mode.

Example: you are in G major and you want to play a Phrygian progression -> You think of the B Phrygian mode (G major's 3rd step) meaning B C D E F# G A B so instead of G being I, you will have B become i (it's not noted with I, simply because after harmonization, the chord derived is a minor one not a major one)

Regarding the recordings - I like the classical vibe that the Fairy's Dance gets from using a classical guitar, but be careful in the mid part where there are two guitars recorded, as there are moments in which they are not perfectly superposed. The harmonics sound GREAT!

Regarding vibrato - it needs to be wider, man - it's too week and this is why it feels a bit strange smile.gif Can you show me a little footage with your vibrato technique?

Cosmin


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 12 2014, 01:50 AM
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Hey Cosmin!

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/fairys-dance-3
Is this better?


I didn't have my tripod so it was a bit complicated, hope you can see what you need to.


Thanks! smile.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 12 2014, 09:33 AM
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Hey mate!

The Dance is ok, except for the fact that at around 0:27 - that lick sounds a bit different from what I am playing - make sure you nail it well at slow tempo and then tackle it again. Otherwise, the part before the final harmonics lick is a bit dry, but the two guitars section is in synch now. It's in the details mate wink.gif You are doing a great job, but I want it perfect biggrin.gif

Now, for the vibrato - it is too fast and it needs to be wider - it's all in the wrist motion, but to manage to get a good grasp on things, I totally recommend you to record against the original track, so that you can compare Ben's with yours in terms of wideness and tempo. Another important fact - vibrato is not something you do without any relationship to the song tempo smile.gif Think about that a bit after analyzing the things stated above wink.gif


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 13 2014, 01:15 AM
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Hey Cosmin! smile.gif

I listened to you playing Fairy's Dance, and to Ben playing Ben's Blues, and I think I learned and applied a little bit.

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/fairys-dance-4
What do you think about that?

https://soundcloud.com/amitaik/bens-blues-2
My fingers are KILLING me! Tried putting more effort into the vibrato, and including vibrato when bending.
I also tried to incorporate vibrato into bends. I tried to keep in mind the tempo when playing vibrato, wasn't as simple as I thought.

Thanks!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 13 2014, 09:52 AM
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Dude, seriously, you are a very fast learner biggrin.gif

I think you understood things perfectly - if you compare these takes with the previous ones, you will note a great difference, in terms of 'feeling' things smile.gif

I think these are good to go in the REC zone - both of them - so get some rest, shoot some vids and let's rock the REC biggrin.gif

Cosmin


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Amitai Kedmi
post Feb 14 2014, 03:41 AM
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Hey Cosmin!

Will do! Hopefully I'll get it done in Saturday. Meanwhile I'll keep working on the single string modes and everything we began.

Thanks!
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