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> Do You Keep A Pretty Fixed Wrist When Picking?
fkalich
post Jun 6 2007, 06:31 AM
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In the past day i dramatically improved my sweeping, pretty much picking by pivoting at the elbow. I also find that the palm flow on the bridge then is automatic, you don't even have to think about it. Clearly this is the way to sweep.

But then, i started experimenting with my other picking, such as runs, and well, it seems it works better for that also. I mean, pretty much the pivot at the elbow powers the picking, alternate or otherview, the wrist remains fairly fixed. Not rigid, but the wrist does not power the pick action the lower part of the arm pivoting at the elbow powers it.

Is this the bona fide correct method? Or just one of many. What do you guys do?
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Ryan
post Jun 6 2007, 09:25 AM
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I think using yoru elbow..is bad....hmm im not sure though


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fkalich
post Jun 6 2007, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 6 2007, 03:25 AM) *
I think using yoru elbow..is bad....hmm im not sure though


I want to make sure i am being clear. i mean that while it is not rigid, to an extent the wrist stays in a straight line (or nearly so) as the lower arm, the movement of the lower arm, wrist, and hand as one unit provides the most of the pick force.

after i read what you wrote, i looked at pavel. take his 3 string sweep lesson. in the last video (red shirt) he is clearly playing with the wrist. but if you look at the 1st video of that lesson, he is playing more so with the arm, or so it seems to me.

then i looked at who i consider the best shredder i have ever seen. because he is so good, and ONLY plays as fast as he can and still play clearly and cleanly, unlike much of the shredding population.

he looks to me to be doing what i am talking about, he powers the pick with the lower arm primarily, not with the wrist. so i think i am on to something here. my sweep speed picked up at least 10bps on 16th note triplets immediately, and they are much better quality, more clear and steady.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG74eVb6V10

i am thinking primarily about what he does on his very fast playing, looks like with the arm to me.

it makes sense to me. try to move you lower arm fast up and down, you and really go fast, holding a pick. try the same with your wrist, very obvious the former outdoes the latter. also the added mass of the whole arm is what must give the sweeps at least the more steady and smooth flow, that makes sense.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 6 2007, 10:57 AM
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Yonrak
post Jun 6 2007, 10:26 PM
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Yeah, does look like he's doing what you described. I noticed alot of other people do it too. John Petrucci does it sometimes, so does Matt Heafy in the triviun "Shred like me" video.

Batio looks as if he is using his arm to "power" the sweeps, and anchoring his fingers to guide them...if that makes sense tongue.gif.

This post has been edited by Yonrak: Jun 6 2007, 10:27 PM
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Ryan
post Jun 6 2007, 10:30 PM
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i believe..maybe im seein gwrong..buty when Micheal...does his sweeps..he using his whole arm going in a up and down motion..mostly with the shoulder...hmm..but maybe im just looking at it in the wrong way..but the speedpicking...hmm idk..i always thought using your elbow is bad......but i guess if you have neough exp. like him..then its ok!!


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fkalich
post Jun 6 2007, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 6 2007, 04:30 PM) *
i believe..maybe im seein gwrong..buty when Micheal...does his sweeps..he using his whole arm going in a up and down motion..mostly with the shoulder...hmm..but maybe im just looking at it in the wrong way..but the speedpicking...hmm idk..i always thought using your elbow is bad......but i guess if you have neough exp. like him..then its ok!!



yonrak, ryan. thanks for observations. wanted a few other pair of eyes to say what they see here.

i just about bet that whatever Batio does, is not an accident. he has got university degrees in music composition. has to be a smart guy. i expect whatever he does, he researched it, evaluated it, and selected what was most efficient based on that.

what you say Ryan is worth thinking about, i am going to observe people more. But for sweeps, stuff like that, i am sold on the arm.

I don't buy into the "many ways to do things" mantra. Sure there is some normal and acceptable variation in any activity involving muscular actions, but there are always some pretty basic and accepted guidelines to follow for maximum efficiency in muscular/skeletal motions. It is just plain science.

It is interesting how Batio positions his fingers. I don't do that, but will think about that, i am sure he made an educated decision to do that.
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Ryan
post Jun 6 2007, 11:56 PM
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yes he made an educated decision about that..OR..he could have just did it that way because it was most comfortable for him tongue.gif....ask him lol..taht they only way you could possibley find out why he plays the way he does.......lol..adn good luck on the askin him part


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fkalich
post Jun 7 2007, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 6 2007, 05:56 PM) *
yes he made an educated decision about that..OR..he could have just did it that way because it was most comfortable for him tongue.gif....ask him lol..taht they only way you could possibley find out why he plays the way he does.......lol..adn good luck on the askin him part


this is what i am saying. he spent a great deal of time in an environment where analytical evaluation is the order of the day. i highly doubt he settled for just what was comfortable. in that type of environment, you are bound to take a scientific approach to coming up with an efficient solution, where "what is comfortable" is not a determining criteria.

Batio is known for becoming a very accomplished player in just 2 years, like a guy who has been playing all his life. That did not happen by accident, this is a man who analytically looked at solving the problem, becoming a skilled player in the shortest possible amount of time, and found an at least semi optimal solution to the problem. clearly.

years ago, a professor said this, "there is working hard, and there is working smart". You can sometimes pick up good advice, even from Nazi types. Batio clearly worked smart in those 2 years, no other possible way that he accomplished so much.

btw: and not condescending (i am older, had time to be exposed to a lot), this is deductive reasoning. The Sherlock Holmes type. Moving from effect to cause. You see a state of the world, and use logic to determine what caused it.

As contrasted with inductive reasoning, where you look at causes, and predict what the effects will be from those causes.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 7 2007, 01:28 AM
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Ryan
post Jun 7 2007, 03:16 AM
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ahh ok..see i didnt know he became a veyr good guitarist in 2 years....i just thought that he picks up on things easliy and worked really hard..very many years...but see now im thinking differently..im kinda going with you now...biggrin.gif


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