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> Creation Of Generic Radio Music :(
spdalton
post Jun 10 2007, 08:45 AM
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<rant>
So today was the heats for my area for New Zealands Rockquest highschool band competition.
50 bands competed for a spot in the regional finals with 14 other bands, and then national finals. (600 bands entered, nation wide)

Each band plays 1 original song.
Our band went in with reasonable hope that we might have chance at getting through (bluesy classic rock). We knew that there was some strong competition as well.

So after 7 hours of uncomfortable seats the judges came and told us the finalists.
It shocked everyone really, they picked bands that were unoriginal, predictable but bands that play the type of music that has become so common place on radios today (think greenday type of music).

Now obviously this opinion is biased, but they ignored many other bands that had a really awesome, unique sound.

It's no wonder rock is slowly dieing when competitions like these are effectively breeding generic music.
</rant>


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fkalich
post Jun 10 2007, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (spdalton @ Jun 10 2007, 02:45 AM) *
<rant>
So today was the heats for my area for New Zealands Rockquest highschool band competition.
50 bands competed for a spot in the regional finals with 14 other bands, and then national finals. (600 bands entered, nation wide)

Each band plays 1 original song.
Our band went in with reasonable hope that we might have chance at getting through (bluesy classic rock). We knew that there was some strong competition as well.

So after 7 hours of uncomfortable seats the judges came and told us the finalists.
It shocked everyone really, they picked bands that were unoriginal, predictable but bands that play the type of music that has become so common place on radios today (think greenday type of music).

Now obviously this opinion is biased, but they ignored many other bands that had a really awesome, unique sound.

It's no wonder rock is slowly dieing when competitions like these are effectively breeding generic music.
</rant>



better to be pleasantly surprised when something of true merit is appreciated, rather than to expect it. it happens, but if you expect it, you will be disappointed more often than not.

i believe that in general, if one is truly accomplished, it will be appreciated. however, one may have to be patient up to the point that occurs.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 10 2007, 11:02 AM
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FretDancer69
post Jun 12 2007, 12:02 AM
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i agree, but its still so sad how good music, hard work and practice means nothing today. Its really dissapointing sad.gif

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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 01:07 AM
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I think this generation (of which I'm a part) is still waiting for some kind of musical revolution to come along. There really hasn't been anyone truly innovative and original to come along since the 90's. Not to say there aren't any good new bands. IMO of course.


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FretDancer69
post Jun 12 2007, 01:17 AM
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yea you are right, but the problem is, are we (this generation) going to live enough to see and experience that revolution? or better yet..is it our purpose to create that musical revolution?


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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 01:28 AM
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Well, I think with our generation generally being teens to mid to upper 20's, I'd say we'll probably be making it. biggrin.gif Good luck!

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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 01:37 AM
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the reason there is no unqiue sound is because everybody has heros...AND THATS THE TRUTH..now let me explain why..its good to have heroes and want to be just like them..but thats the problem...you want to be JUST LIKE THEM....me personally i have no heroes..jsut people that i like..and that have a good unqiue sound...which the people that i have found that are unqiue..woudl be rusty cooley...Paul Gilbert..well thats all i can think of because a lot of Rockstars...arent all teh unqie either dont get me wrong or nohting..but ANDY TIMMONS KICKS MAJOR YEAAAAAA...but well he sounds so much like jimi hendrix especially in his song...Electric Gypsy...ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY..very good song..but but not unqiue......you kinda get what im saying...ahveing heroes is good..but is also bad.........if you really think about it..its true!!!!!!

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Kaneda
post Jun 12 2007, 01:40 AM
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Heh, it's funny (in a sad way) to read you discussing this. I guess when you say "this/our generation", you mean "teenagers in this decade"? (I have no idea about the age of people here).

Mainly funny in that sad way, because I've been complaining the same way about the music of the 00's (and also a lot about the teens of the 00's) for years.

And it makes me feel like some old, dusty relic (being a teen in the early nineties). Plus, I tell myself it might just be because I'm becoming settled like those annoying old folks in my teens. Maybe I just can't understand new music or teenage behaviour smile.gif

I do think most new bands are generic. There's a Muse thread in another area of the forum, and Muse is probably the last "big" new band I became a fan of - that was in 1998. Since then, if I've really liked a new band, it'll be a small "local" band.

And that's probably it. Either the good stuff is just not appreciated anymore, as you say, so the good bands stay small. Or the culture is so varied by now - lots of subcultures - that any good band will never appeal to an entire generation.

Or postmodernism has reached its climax and "new" music can't do anything at all except appropriate from the music of the past. Or something big happens soon. Or I'm missing the point of this generation smile.gif

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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (Kaneda @ Jun 11 2007, 07:40 PM) *
Heh, it's funny (in a sad way) to read you discussing this. I guess when you say "this/our generation", you mean "teenagers in this decade"? (I have no idea about the age of people here).

Mainly funny in that sad way, because I've been complaining the same way about the music of the 00's (and also a lot about the teens of the 00's) for years.

And it makes me feel like some old, dusty relic (being a teen in the early nineties). Plus, I tell myself it might just be because I'm becoming settled like those annoying old folks in my teens. Maybe I just can't understand new music or teenage behaviour smile.gif

I do think most new bands are generic. There's a Muse thread in another area of the forum, and Muse is probably the last "big" new band I became a fan of - that was in 1998. Since then, if I've really liked a new band, it'll be a small "local" band.

And that's probably it. Either the good stuff is just not appreciated anymore, as you say, so the good bands stay small. Or the culture is so varied by now - lots of subcultures - that any good band will never appeal to an entire generation.

Or postmodernism has reached its climax and "new" music can't do anything at all except appropriate from the music of the past. Or something big happens soon. Or I'm missing the point of this generation smile.gif


lol...it will always repeat...over and over again..just different lyrics and licks..but all sounding closly related....unless you just stop..trying to be like other people..and just be yourself...


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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 02:32 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 11 2007, 06:37 PM) *
the reason there is no unqiue sound is because everybody has heros...AND THATS THE TRUTH..now let me explain why..its good to have heroes and want to be just like them..but thats the problem...you want to be JUST LIKE THEM....me personally i have no heroes..jsut people that i like..and that have a good unqiue sound...which the people that i have found that are unqiue..woudl be rusty cooley...Paul Gilbert..well thats all i can think of because a lot of Rockstars...arent all teh unqie either dont get me wrong or nohting..but ANDY TIMMONS KICKS MAJOR YEAAAAAA...but well he sounds so much like jimi hendrix especially in his song...Electric Gypsy...ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY..very good song..but but not unqiue......you kinda get what im saying...ahveing heroes is good..but is also bad.........if you really think about it..its true!!!!!!


I disagree. Having heroes is not a bad thing, because you can never sound exactly like them. If you try to sound exactly like someone, you're not being an artist, not being original etc, so yes if you do try to emulate someone that's bad, but then again I wouldn't consider you an artist either. Having heroes and trying to be like them is kind of an immature thing that you pick up as a kid and eventually grow out of, meaning you'll probably always love their music but you will grow up and realize that to be a real musician emulating them isn't good enough. So you'll take what they did and put your stamp on it (thats what I mean by growing out of it). Thereby you won't sound exactly like them. Most great musicians have been like that.

QUOTE (Kaneda @ Jun 11 2007, 06:40 PM) *
Heh, it's funny (in a sad way) to read you discussing this. I guess when you say "this/our generation", you mean "teenagers in this decade"? (I have no idea about the age of people here).

Mainly funny in that sad way, because I've been complaining the same way about the music of the 00's (and also a lot about the teens of the 00's) for years.

And it makes me feel like some old, dusty relic (being a teen in the early nineties). Plus, I tell myself it might just be because I'm becoming settled like those annoying old folks in my teens. Maybe I just can't understand new music or teenage behaviour smile.gif

I do think most new bands are generic. There's a Muse thread in another area of the forum, and Muse is probably the last "big" new band I became a fan of - that was in 1998. Since then, if I've really liked a new band, it'll be a small "local" band.

And that's probably it. Either the good stuff is just not appreciated anymore, as you say, so the good bands stay small. Or the culture is so varied by now - lots of subcultures - that any good band will never appeal to an entire generation.

Or postmodernism has reached its climax and "new" music can't do anything at all except appropriate from the music of the past. Or something big happens soon. Or I'm missing the point of this generation smile.gif


I disagree once again! You're correct about our culture becoming more diverse and therefore we can't please everyone, but take a look at hendrix. Cited as one of the most influential musicians ever, he did revolutionize his generation. However there's plenty of people of that generation who do not like him, he didn't appeal to everyone. On the other side of the coin, he did reach across genre lines. I know a lot of guys into hip hop etc who revere hendrix too. So I think it's possible to cross genre boundaries. CCR topped the soul and rock charts simultaneously if I recall. I would also have to say there's been a fair amount of good bands to come about since the millenium.


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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Jun 11 2007, 08:32 PM) *
I disagree. Having heroes is not a bad thing, because you can never sound exactly like them. If you try to sound exactly like someone, you're not being an artist, not being original etc, so yes if you do try to emulate someone that's bad, but then again I wouldn't consider you an artist either. Having heroes and trying to be like them is kind of an immature thing that you pick up as a kid and eventually grow out of, meaning you'll probably always love their music but you will grow up and realize that to be a real musician emulating them isn't good enough. So you'll take what they did and put your stamp on it (thats what I mean by growing out of it). Thereby you won't sound exactly like them. Most great musicians have been like that.



and i disagree with you....takeing some1 elses work..and making it your own....makes..you..semi-original..and not unqiue......to be original..youc ome up with yoru own stuff.....and not change what other people have made.and to be unqiue..you dont take anybody elses sound..rythem...sense of style....or anything..you put yourself into......so puting your stamp on it...you wont sound exaclty like them...but you still sound somewhat like them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by Ryan: Jun 12 2007, 02:45 AM


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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 11 2007, 07:43 PM) *
and i disagree with you....takeing some1 elses work..and making it your own....makes..you..semi-original..and not unqiue......to be original..youc ome up with yoru own stuff.....and not change what other people have made.and to be unqiue..you dont take anybody elses sound..rythem...sense of style....or anything..you put yourself into......so puting your stamp on it...you wont sound exaclty like them...but you still sound somewhat like them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Inevitably if you listen to something that you like you'll incorporate it into your own style. If you didn't, most people would be one trick ponies. Incorporating other people's styles and diversifying your own is a great way to reach a new sound. You can go off and try to be original yourself, but then again, you might as well stop using all those scales as well. After all, that's what everyone else does! And while we're at it, since everyone else plays guitar, maybe you should think of a new instrument as well. My point is, there is going to be similarities even between two completely original and independent things.


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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 03:14 AM
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ok were talking about sound....not about the instruments......and just to let you konw...i dont use scales.......i like the freedom i get when i dont think ok this is what i can use..adn this is waht i cant use.....so it lets me be more original and unqiue, adn i have no restrictions in composing wehn not using scales or any keys or anything...i jsut play.....and yea i guess listening to other people you will pick up some things....efeyrobyd does..but taking other people songs..and rythems..and everything...makes you not original at all...and yes life is full of simliatrites between 2 things.....of course..because no matter what...there will always be somethign there..iether...its gonna be 1 note....or a artifical harmonic....of course...but full riffs..and licks...i dont think so..

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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 11 2007, 08:14 PM) *
ok were talking about sound....not about the instruments......and just to let you konw...i dont use scales.......i like the freedom i get when i dont think ok this is what i can use..adn this is waht i cant use.....so it lets me be more original and unqiue, adn i have no restrictions in composing wehn not using scales or any keys or anything...i jsut play.....and yea i guess listening to other people you will pick up some things....efeyrobyd does..but taking other people songs..and rythems..and everything...makes you not original at all...and yes life is full of simliatrites between 2 things.....of course..because no matter what...there will always be somethign there..iether...its gonna be 1 note....or a artifical harmonic....of course...but full riffs..and licks...i dont think so..


Well, I gather from what you're saying, people who have guitar heroes always copy riffs and licks from their heroes? I guess we just have a disagreement on what the definition of having a hero is. Cause to me, having a hero does not imply that you will copy what they do, only that you look up to them and are inspired by them. For example, many people regard the firefighters at the WTC in 9/11 as heroes (I don't know, I wasn't there, they probably did some heroic stuff) and if I were to think that then I would be inspired by what they did, but it wouldn't mean I was going to go be a firefighter and rush into burning buildings, just that I would aspire to be as brave as them, in my own way. Or whatever.


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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 04:26 AM
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ok i see where your coming from...now see theres people like that..but a lot of people.are always..like..i want to be just like them..and actually turn out JUST LIKE THEM......so i guess its just a misunderstanding


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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 04:35 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 11 2007, 09:26 PM) *
ok i see where your coming from...now see theres people like that..but a lot of people.are always..like..i want to be just like them..and actually turn out JUST LIKE THEM......so i guess its just a misunderstanding


Yeah we're on the same level I think laugh.gif

I have a philosophy though, it makes sense to me that learning and using scales can indeed be very limiting, but if you think about it, some of the greatest creativity comes when you limit yourself. I mean, give an engineer all the materials in the world and he'll build something probably the "normal" way, because he's given access to the normal materials, and it's easy, proven, and works well. Give the guy a limited amount of materials and he will quite literally have to "get creative". I hope I'm not pushing all of these analogies too far biggrin.gif

But anyway, even knowing the scales, you will always have the option of doing whatever you want. So to me the options are: not learn the scales. You have freedom to do whatever you want. OR, learn the scales. You still have the freedom to do what you want (all it takes is a little willpower to break out of the norm now and then), but you also have these guidelines, and are capable of "forcing yourself" to get creative anytime you want (by limiting yourself through scales etc). I hope that made sense tongue.gif


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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 04:59 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Jun 11 2007, 10:35 PM) *
Yeah we're on the same level I think laugh.gif

I have a philosophy though, it makes sense to me that learning and using scales can indeed be very limiting, but if you think about it, some of the greatest creativity comes when you limit yourself. I mean, give an engineer all the materials in the world and he'll build something probably the "normal" way, because he's given access to the normal materials, and it's easy, proven, and works well. Give the guy a limited amount of materials and he will quite literally have to "get creative". I hope I'm not pushing all of these analogies too far biggrin.gif

But anyway, even knowing the scales, you will always have the option of doing whatever you want. So to me the options are: not learn the scales. You have freedom to do whatever you want. OR, learn the scales. You still have the freedom to do what you want (all it takes is a little willpower to break out of the norm now and then), but you also have these guidelines, and are capable of "forcing yourself" to get creative anytime you want (by limiting yourself through scales etc). I hope that made sense tongue.gif



made perfect sense and totatlly understand..you....hmm and thats a good way to thinik of it..BUT..well thats yoru way..and my way is my way..so i guess thats how its gonna stay....but very good thinking and analgies by the way!!!


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fkalich
post Jun 12 2007, 05:16 AM
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as issac newton said (to paraphrase) i only was able to accomplish so much because i stood on the shoulders of giants.

there is nothing new under the sun. it is how you put the parts together. i think attitude is really the necessary ingredient. willingness to let yourself be original. people are under a great deal of pressure to conform today, because of the media. used to be that a person was under pressure of his family, church, local community. but you could escape that. not the mass media, it is everywhere, and pretty much in control.
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Ryan
post Jun 12 2007, 05:18 AM
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yea!!


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JVM
post Jun 12 2007, 05:18 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 11 2007, 10:16 PM) *
as issac newton said (to paraphrase) i only was able to accomplish so much because i stood on the shoulders of giants.

there is nothing new under the sun. it is how you put the parts together. i think attitude is really the necessary ingredient. willingness to let yourself be original. people are under a great deal of pressure to conform today, because of the media. used to be that a person was under pressure of his family, church, local community. but you could escape that. not the mass media, it is everywhere, and pretty much in control.


Sad state of affairs.


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