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> Where's The Guitar Music Heading?
Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 7 2012, 10:47 AM
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Should we really think about the possibility of changing 'Guitarmasterclass.net' into 'DJmasterclass.net'? That would be a nightmare of gargantuan proportions, but nowadays, it seems that guitar music is losing ground to electronic/ pop stuff - or is it?

This I read in a very interesting article which I will post as a link below:

Hard times for guitar music?

The conclusion is that the big record labels are only promoting 'safe' rock music, perfectly fitting selling recipes, rather than experimenting and trying to sign bands with an original sound or approach, out of what I synthesized from this article.

On the other hand, there are a lot of good examples of great modern rock bands which have made it by propelling themselves through smaller labels, backed up by a lot of work and touring, thus really making it out there and having a solid organically built fan base.

This is a very interesting matter for all of us having bands in here and I know there's a lot of us and I also know we all are thinking: MAN HOW DO I GET MYSELF AND MY MATES OUT THERE?

What's the best approach I'm wondering? And is it that good to be signed by a big label out of the blue?

Questions, questions...questions? laugh.gif

Cosmin


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Dinaga
post Jun 7 2012, 10:55 AM
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It's not just music. Today you can mostly only encounter "safe" movies, "safe" video games, "safe" everything - which follows a formula that works. People are afraid to break the wall and try something new. And I notice that there's a LOT less dynamics in songs nowadays, it's like they all follow one production formula and that's why almost every song sounds the same (at least to me)...

It's going downwards and generally it's all about the money - but I think there'll always be good music out there, it will not consume us all!

I don't even hate electronic music - I used to listen to a lot of electronic before, and I'm a big trance fan even today, but it's gotten worse, because songs in general are really getting less and less creative, usually based on one single catchy part. And everything revolves around that.

Also, in today's "reality show world", artists' personal lives and incidents are much more important than their art, which is truly sad.

Oh, and the music videos, of course. The more nudity, violence and random useless stuff - the better! It's not that I don't like watching that but music should come first! Hell, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest had some of the cheesiest music videos ever but at least the music rocked! Now you have bad music combined with bad music video. Oh the industry!

This post has been edited by Dinaga: Jun 7 2012, 10:57 AM


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Yash
post Jun 7 2012, 10:59 AM
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This is important for me too, given I want to be a pro musician and that's the reason my parents aren't supporting me as a musician anymore. sad.gif

How does a new artist break out nowadays ?

The only recent breakout during this time I remember is Bullet For My Valentine and Avenged Sevenfold making it really big.


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 7 2012, 11:00 AM
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I think if we remove ourselves from the immediate times and look back, I think we will find that it's always been this way to a certain degree. Record companies and the media always go with what is most likely to sell, sell, sell. The only thing that's changed over the years is what's selling at that time. So, the products will change and people's tastes will (maybe) change but the approach of the media and record companies (who are losing their influence anyway) will always remain focused on the product most likely to sell and make money, which makes sense from a business point of view, which is what they are. If musicians can always hold on to the idea that they're dealing with businesses, not idealists, then we can never be surprised or disappointed. Only surprised or disappointed at the new ways in which they can surprise or disappoint us !! laugh.gif



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Yash
post Jun 7 2012, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE (Dinaga @ Jun 7 2012, 03:25 PM) *
It's not just music. Today you can mostly only encounter "safe" movies, "safe" video games, "safe" everything - which follows a formula that works. People are afraid to break the wall and try something new. And I notice that there's a LOT less dynamics in songs nowadays, it's like they all follow one production formula and that's why almost every song sounds the same (at least to me)...

It's going downwards and generally it's all about the money - but I think there'll always be good music out there, it will not consume us all!

I don't even hate electronic music - I used to listen to a lot of electronic before, and I'm a big trance fan even today, but it's gotten worse, because songs in general are really getting less and less creative, usually based on one single catchy part. And everything revolves around that.

Also, in today's "reality show world", artists' personal lives and incidents are much more important than their art, which is truly sad.

Oh, and the music videos, of course. The more nudity, violence and random useless stuff - the better! It's not that I don't like watching that but music should come first! Hell, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest had some of the cheesiest music videos ever but at least the music rocked! Now you have bad music combined with bad music video. Oh the industry!


Very true Dinaga. Every word counts.

And I truly agree on that "Reality Show World" We know most pop artists because of their life outside the art and not because of the art. And yes, its all about the money


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Gitarrero
post Jun 7 2012, 11:13 AM
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Well, seeing that the festival season just started and all major german rock and metal festivals are sold out since the beginning of the year I'd say there is still a place for guitar music.
But I agree, if you stick to the safe, moderately rock'n'roll side it will be much easier to make it in the business.
Though there is a thing I want to tell you:
We got this new band in Germany, called Kraftklub. They sound pretty much like an Indie band, but one of their singers comes more from the rap scene and does a mixture between rap and singing in the verse, while the guitar player sings the chorus. Their music is really groovy, and they opened for huge rap acts as well as for huge rock bands. They've been touring for like 2 years like crazy until they got there and got to support huge bands. Even before they released their first album! When they released their first single and album a couple of months back...both shot to the number one spot in the charts.
I know a few other bands who seem to tour 365 days a year, they are chosen to support a huge band and over time, they themselves are getting bigger and bigger.
So the recipe seems to be: get a huge band to like you, so you can go on tour with them. Or be the son of a member of a huge band laugh.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 7 2012, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Jun 7 2012, 10:13 AM) *
Well, seeing that the festival season just started and all major german rock and metal festivals are sold out since the beginning of the year I'd say there is still a place for guitar music.
But I agree, if you stick to the safe, moderately rock'n'roll side it will be much easier to make it in the business.
Though there is a thing I want to tell you:
We got this new band in Germany, called Kraftklub. They sound pretty much like an Indie band, but one of their singers comes more from the rap scene and does a mixture between rap and singing in the verse, while the guitar player sings the chorus. Their music is really groovy, and they opened for huge rap acts as well as for huge rock bands. They've been touring for like 2 years like crazy until they got there and got to support huge bands. Even before they released their first album! When they released their first single and album a couple of months back...both shot to the number one spot in the charts.
I know a few other bands who seem to tour 365 days a year, they are chosen to support a huge band and over time, they themselves are getting bigger and bigger.
So the recipe seems to be: get a huge band to like you, so you can go on tour with them. Or be the son of a member of a huge band laugh.gif


The last presumption does not quite apply in Romania sad.gif the drummer in Voodoo is the son of Romania's most famous rock band drummer...and still...nothing is really happening out of that. Well, the relationship between the two of them is a bit special, so that might really be the reason smile.gif


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SpaseMoonkey
post Jun 7 2012, 11:31 AM
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Would have to agree with the playing it safe card. You can't blame them tho, they do take chances here and there but its rare anymore. But if it was my money I'd have to say, I'd go the safe route as well. Sadly everything is evolved to that and its the same non sense repeating for everything. TV, competition shows like x factor, american idol, who has talent are the top shown shows. But what kills me is the fact that stations are given a name say for instance. MTV, they play drama shows, where is the music aspect? No one promotes this way, I think that is due to the internet.

But on the other hand you do have the internet! I can use all sorts of sites to find new music. Youtube, Spotify, Last.fm, and even the record company label pages. You may not hear them advertise all the bands, but by checking the site you may find some less known bands that are signed. I think that they only put up popular choices, but if you take the time to look you can surely find more. It's not that music or the guitar is dying, its just, its not what companies feel people want.

I will use my mom for example, I remember growing up she listened to stuff like the Beach Boys, Wilson Phillips, and such. The radio was always set to the oldies for years, just in the last 10 years she started with the modern music. She has the top 100 greatest hits of today stations on the radio. She likes Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars, and so on now. I think this is why labels choose and play what they do. It's a really broad age group that listens to these bands/people.

But as for just given the label spot. No I wouldn't want to just be handed something I'd rather work for it, I believe to much is handed out for the sake of handing it out. Some elbow grease and some well spent time learning and building your dream, you will have fans that have seen you from the start to the finish. That way you feel accomplished for all the hard work you put in.


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Sensible Jones
post Jun 7 2012, 04:21 PM
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We have to face the facts that the main record Companies are only there to operate and return the best premium for their Investors. Therefore they will always follow what is a particular 'trend' in a certain place, this is why certain Bands get backing to sell in America but almmost none to promote them here in Europe. (And vice versa.)
If we go back in History this has always been the case. Through the 60's, 70's and 80's Bands could only make a name 'worldwide' with the backing of a Record company. Since the 80's however, trends have changed, with the predominance of DJ, Rap and Hip-hop based genres that could be produced cheaply and relatively easily (compared to a full band set-up) these genres were fully supported and exploited by the Companies, also the influence of Youth Culture has a bearing on this. The Companies will support and promote whatever will bring them the largest Profit, so, with the predominance of 'Dance' music through the 80's and 90's there was still a healthy Rock/Metal scene and certain Bands recieved full backing through this time.
That being said, due to the more diverse ways of promotion these days (Internet etc) there is no reason why anyone cannot write, produce and record something and promote it themselves. One thing that hasn't changed over the years is this....
There's always a certain amount of self-sacrifce that's needed in order to succeed.

(Iknow, I was in a band that was signed to Sony/BMG in the 80's!)
smile.gif


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Yash
post Jun 7 2012, 04:26 PM
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Yes, completely agreed with Mr. Jones. smile.gif Hip-Hop and Rap music is CHEAP music, in all ways wink.gif laugh.gif


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Gitarrero
post Jun 7 2012, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 7 2012, 12:29 PM) *
The last presumption does not quite apply in Romania sad.gif the drummer in Voodoo is the son of Romania's most famous rock band drummer...and still...nothing is really happening out of that. Well, the relationship between the two of them is a bit special, so that might really be the reason smile.gif


Sorry to hear that Cosmin! I was actually referring to the band Rise to Remain, whose singer is the son of a guy named Bruce Dickinson biggrin.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 7 2012, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Jun 7 2012, 03:29 PM) *
Sorry to hear that Cosmin! I was actually referring to the band Rise to Remain, whose singer is the son of a guy named Bruce Dickinson biggrin.gif


biggrin.gif I know, I know tongue.gif well, Rise to remain sounds awesome to me, so nothing to complain about!


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JTaylor
post Jun 7 2012, 05:19 PM
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Strange as it may be, I kind of like the fact that most guitar music is not so main stream. I guess it's just the rebel in me. What I can't stand is when awesome metal bands completely change their music and then everybody is listening to them. There is a certain metal band, whose guitarist is nothing short of phenomenal. I loved the first (I think it was 6) 6 albums. All of a sudden they got sober, cut their hair, changed their sound, and every teeny-bopper loved them then. I never listened to them again. It was funny because, just a few years before this, their lead singer had accused another metal group of being "musical sluts" because they had released a song with a rap group. Hmmmmmm.


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Dinaga
post Jun 7 2012, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (JTaylor @ Jun 7 2012, 04:19 PM) *
Strange as it may be, I kind of like the fact that most guitar music is not so main stream. I guess it's just the rebel in me. What I can't stand is when awesome metal bands completely change their music and then everybody is listening to them. There is a certain metal band, whose guitarist is nothing short of phenomenal. I loved the first (I think it was 6) 6 albums. All of a sudden they got sober, cut their hair, changed their sound, and every teeny-bopper loved them then. I never listened to them again. It was funny because, just a few years before this, their lead singer had accused another metal group of being "musical sluts" because they had released a song with a rap group. Hmmmmmm.


Metallica? laugh.gif


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 7 2012, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (Dinaga @ Jun 7 2012, 06:08 PM) *
Metallica? laugh.gif


And I guess the accused band was Anthrax ? smile.gif


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SCProphet
post Jun 7 2012, 06:19 PM
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The problem is piracy , it's a simple as that.

Big companies , be it in the music, movie or game industrie know that if they release something it will be pirated alot. So if they spend their money in making something 'new' it holds a much bigger risk then making something 'safe'.
Why? because whatever you make, it will end up being pirated alot. And by making safe products it will end up selling a bit and pirated alot, but making "new " products will end up being pirated alot and it might sell alot, but it might also not sell at all.


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JTaylor
post Jun 7 2012, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (Dinaga @ Jun 7 2012, 01:08 PM) *
Metallica? laugh.gif


That would be correct sir! Trying not to say the name because so many people here still like them but I knew it was gonna be obvious. laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 7 2012, 01:18 PM) *
And I guess the accused band was Anthrax ? smile.gif


You are also correct sir! laugh.gif

QUOTE (SCProphet @ Jun 7 2012, 01:19 PM) *
The problem is piracy , it's a simple as that.

Big companies , be it in the music, movie or game industrie know that if they release something it will be pirated alot. So if they spend their money in making something 'new' it holds a much bigger risk then making something 'safe'.
Why? because whatever you make, it will end up being pirated alot. And by making safe products it will end up selling a bit and pirated alot, but making "new " products will end up being pirated alot and it might sell alot, but it might also not sell at all.


I can honestly say, if I released a CD, it would NEVER be pirated!!!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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Nihilist1
post Jun 7 2012, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (SCProphet @ Jun 7 2012, 05:19 PM) *
The problem is piracy , it's a simple as that.

Big companies , be it in the music, movie or game industrie know that if they release something it will be pirated alot. So if they spend their money in making something 'new' it holds a much bigger risk then making something 'safe'.
Why? because whatever you make, it will end up being pirated alot. And by making safe products it will end up selling a bit and pirated alot, but making "new " products will end up being pirated alot and it might sell alot, but it might also not sell at all.


Let us agree to disagree.

Piracy exists. That is a true enough fact. Although physical disk sales dropped 13% in 2011, downloadable disk sales in 2011 increased by a total of 24% -- which is HUGE.

We also have to take into consideration that people are purchasing singles more than full albums because let's face it, the economy sucks. People are only buying songs that they know they like since they don't have to take a chance with a full album of music they might not listen to.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/201...never-kill-you/

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/01/02/did-onlin...-sales-in-2011/

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120217/...ollapsing.shtml


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Mudbone
post Jun 7 2012, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (JTaylor @ Jun 7 2012, 12:19 PM) *
Strange as it may be, I kind of like the fact that most guitar music is not so main stream. I guess it's just the rebel in me. What I can't stand is when awesome metal bands completely change their music and then everybody is listening to them. There is a certain metal band, whose guitarist is nothing short of phenomenal. I loved the first (I think it was 6) 6 albums. All of a sudden they got sober, cut their hair, changed their sound, and every teeny-bopper loved them then. I never listened to them again. It was funny because, just a few years before this, their lead singer had accused another metal group of being "musical sluts" because they had released a song with a rap group. Hmmmmmm.


And with that move they became the biggest metal band in history wink.gif I think it was a brilliant strategy, they milked every last drop from the proverbial metal cow, and realized that if they didn't change course, they would just fade away. At that time, 80's metal bands were on the way out, and the bands that didn't change with the times lost their place in the market.

Any band that wants to stay relevant needs to change with the times, and Metallica have done an excellent job at that. Everybody in the music industry anticipates a new Metallica release, and every new studio album they have released in the past 20 years went straight to number one on the charts. If you want to be a successful band, then you should definitely be inspired by Metallica's formula, because it works.

Of course I can't deny Metallica's X factor, which is their character. To me, character is what really sells, not necessarily the music itself. There are millions of great guitarists with millions of great tunes, but not all of them have character. Any song Metallica covers instantly becomes a Metallica song; after listening to it you would never think it was written by someone else. They have that sound, the Metallica sound. And this is what record companies have been selling for years. Franks Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and Johnny Cash didn't write most of their songs, but what sold those songs was their character.

When it comes to selling music, the music itself comes secondary to character.

Edit: Typos

This post has been edited by Mudbone: Jun 7 2012, 09:44 PM


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Dinaga
post Jun 7 2012, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Mudbone @ Jun 7 2012, 07:44 PM) *
And with that move they became the biggest metal band in history wink.gif I think it was brilliant strategy, they milked every last drop from the proverbial metal cow, and realized that if they didn't change course, they would just fade away. At that time, 80's metal bands were on the way out, and the bands that didn't change with the times lost their place in the market.

Any band that wants to stay relevant needs to change with the times, and Metallica have done an excellent job at that. Everybody in the music industry anticipates a new Metallica release, and every new studio album they have released in the past 20 years went straight to number one on the charts. If you want to be a successful band, then you should definitely be inspired by Metallica's formula, because it works.

Of course I can't deny Metallica's X factor, which is their character. To me, character is what really sells, not necessarily the music itself. There are million of great guitarist with millions of great tunes, but not all of them have character. Any song Metallica covers instantly becomes a Metallica song; after listening to it you would never think it was written by someone else. They have that sound, the Metallica sound. And this is what record companies have been selling for years. Franks Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and Johnny Cash didn't write most of their songs, but what sold those songs was there character.

When it comes to selling music, the music itself comes secondary to character.


Sir, I salute you for that post.

I actually grew up on Load and Reload (as well as on their older stuff) and I love those albums, because it's Metallica. I can even listen to St. Anger because of the authentic Hetfield voice and the riffing (although there are no solos! biggrin.gif ). But I see why fans treat that as a sell-out - because it is!

On the other hand, Iron Maiden more or less went the same way throughout their career, and although it's actually my favorite band, I can't stand the last album because I think Steve Harris' creativity passed away a long time ago and he's just repeating himself for a long time:
Slow intro - build up - epic repetitive chorus - bridge - climax with 3 solos - slow outro same as intro... oh yes and a lot of bass...
(talking about a formula that works?)

This topic brought some really interesting discussions. It's really a joy to read all the opinions on the subject.

However, I'm still convinced the industry's going down and losing the soul...
This song could sum it up:



This post has been edited by Dinaga: Jun 7 2012, 09:07 PM


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