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> Timing Issues
Blister
post Jun 14 2012, 04:25 AM
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I've been working on my lessons & also video recording so I can finally start sending in my REC takes . Now that I see & hear myself in the video recordings, I can hear that my timing is off & I am rushing my playing during the first half of my playing. sad.gif But by the second half my timings seems much better. I have watched a lot of REC takes & noticed this to be an occasional problem. I have been involved in music (school & church...not professionally) for years & this is certainly a blow to my musical ego. mad.gif

I think I know what you are going to say, "submit the take anyway" but the perfectionist in me wants it to be better. unsure.gif Is this something that will slowly resolve itself as I continue recording & listening to myself or are there any exercises to help with this problem?

And to all those who have submitted REC takes I applaud you. I am inspired by each of you & the comments from the instructors are incredibly helpful to me. smile.gif


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Nihilist1
post Jun 14 2012, 04:36 AM
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QUOTE (Blister @ Jun 14 2012, 03:25 AM) *
I've been working on my lessons & also video recording so I can finally start sending in my REC takes . Now that I see & hear myself in the video recordings, I can hear that my timing is off & I am rushing my playing during the first half of my playing. sad.gif But by the second half my timings seems much better. I have watched a lot of REC takes & noticed this to be an occasional problem. I have been involved in music (school & church...not professionally) for years & this is certainly a blow to my musical ego. mad.gif

I think I know what you are going to say, "submit the take anyway" but the perfectionist in me wants it to be better. unsure.gif Is this something that will slowly resolve itself as I continue recording & listening to myself or are there any exercises to help with this problem?

And to all those who have submitted REC takes I applaud you. I am inspired by each of you & the comments from the instructors are incredibly helpful to me. smile.gif


Slow down the parts you are rushing and gradually speed them back up. I am pretty sure that is the best and only way to fix the issue. Don't forget to keep tapping your foot or moving a part of your body to the rhythm. I didn't do that for years and ever since I started tapping a foot or counting, I noticed a massive improvement. I am certain you will master whatever it is that you are working on in no time.

Keep it up!





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MonkeyDAthos
post Jun 14 2012, 05:08 AM
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i found playing in a band a huge boost for fixin my timing problems

This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Jun 14 2012, 06:00 AM


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Alex Feather
post Jun 14 2012, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE (Blister @ Jun 14 2012, 03:25 AM) *
I've been working on my lessons & also video recording so I can finally start sending in my REC takes . Now that I see & hear myself in the video recordings, I can hear that my timing is off & I am rushing my playing during the first half of my playing. sad.gif But by the second half my timings seems much better. I have watched a lot of REC takes & noticed this to be an occasional problem. I have been involved in music (school & church...not professionally) for years & this is certainly a blow to my musical ego. mad.gif

I think I know what you are going to say, "submit the take anyway" but the perfectionist in me wants it to be better. unsure.gif Is this something that will slowly resolve itself as I continue recording & listening to myself or are there any exercises to help with this problem?

And to all those who have submitted REC takes I applaud you. I am inspired by each of you & the comments from the instructors are incredibly helpful to me. smile.gif

I can help you with your timing! I have a lot of perfect exercises that will develop your inner rhythm very fast!
Send me a PM and I will explain you details!


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Nihilist1
post Jun 14 2012, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Jun 14 2012, 04:08 AM) *
i found playing in a band a huge boost for fixin my timing problems


+1

QUOTE (Alex Feather @ Jun 14 2012, 04:54 AM) *
I can help you with your timing! I have a lot of perfect exercises that will develop your inner rhythm very fast!
Send me a PM and I will explain you details!


He definitely does! Hell, the first exercise I got from him is what inspired me to start using my body again to keep time. It worked like a charm!


--------------------
All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

All the elders have fallen down...

Heal her now...

Grandfather elk
Turned to me
And spoke:

Light the fire deep inside.
Light the fires!

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awat
post Jun 14 2012, 07:07 AM
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I found by using a metronome helps a lot. Also it did not hurt that I was snare drummer in high school and concert band. The metronome is very important. I read a article where Vinne Moore said. He did not use a metronome in the beggining, but wishes he did. I really do not think he needed a metronome, because you listen to some of his earlier music and it is spot on. My problem with timing is playing syncopated rhythms like the Police Sprits in a material world. If you do not count correctly you will end up off beat which will sound like you are on the beat until they go back into the syncopated part of the song "keyboards" Go with the exercises If you do not have a guitar instructor who can help you with timing issues.

Tony
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maharzan
post Jun 14 2012, 07:13 AM
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Its a great find in itself that you know your timing sucks! I had the same problem, still have it. When I played, I thought i was always on time. It took quite many years to find that out specially when I was recording myself and listening. Even in a band, I was like ending a solo half bar earlier or so. I have recorded a lot now, 47 RECs and it has improved quite a bit. I have never played properly on a metronome, maybe thats one reason. I have noticed that when recording, you have to put your backing track volume pretty high so you hear the drum beats/rhythm. Also, singing the solo with the backing helps so you know exactly when to start/how long the note should ring etc.

Do some Jazz and you will learn a lot of it. smile.gif Good Luck!


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Alex Feather
post Jun 14 2012, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Jun 14 2012, 05:27 AM) *
+1



He definitely does! Hell, the first exercise I got from him is what inspired me to start using my body again to keep time. It worked like a charm!

Thanks man! I do have a lot of exercises! It was very hard for me to learn music so I had to come up with my own exercises! And it turned out to be they are very useful! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Alex Feather: Jun 14 2012, 08:03 AM


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 16 2012, 06:22 PM
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Hey Gary. Rushing in front of the beat is a very common thing to all guitarists.. I think we all suffer from it at some point. I always advise people to get to know 3 different positions:

In front of the beat (rushing)
Behind the beat (getting left behind)
On the beat

You already know how it feels and sounds to play in front of the beat so I advise you to try and deliberately play behind the beat for a while. Get the know the feeling of behind slightly late with your playing.. from that position it's only a small adjustment to make until you're on the beat.

For some reason, I think it's easier to correct your rhythm from behind to being on than trying to correct it from being in front to being on. I don't know why that is.. I guess it's because from being behind you can hear the drum beats where you need to be but when you've gone too far ahead you lose your reference easier.

I hope that all makes sense. This might not work for everyone but it does the trick for me smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Jun 16 2012, 06:23 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 16 2012, 07:57 PM
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I agree with Ben smile.gif I also have the tendency to slow some grooves down because that's how I usually feel them and the drummer always works on pulling me after him and I am getting annoyed because I don't think that FASTER is a good way for the particular song laugh.gif


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derper
post Jun 16 2012, 11:46 PM
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It's already been said, but practicing with a metronome (always) will help you a TON!! You'll get to know your timing issue a bit better, as well. For example, I've found that my timing isn't as accurate until I warm up for at least 10 mins. Great to know!! Also,timing issues can be different for each "lesson". Sometimes you may subconsciously be playing AHEAD of the beat, to give you a bit of breathing room on an upcoming difficult part of that run/riff/lesson. Understanding the cause of your "mistakes" can always help you to better correct them!!

Also, to help with REC vid timing.... as Dinaga had previously mentioned in another thread (which earned him a GMC funny!!), is to leave the video running while taking runs at REC takes. That way, you'll be more relaxed and it gives you a chance to improve your timing on several successive runs, as opposed to hitting "record" right before EVERY run!! Also, loop the backing! If you're not doing that currently for your REC takes, I guarantee that you will see a HUGE difference!! Of course, then just edit off the whole beginning of the video, to isolate your (last) KILLER rec-take!!!

Also....you've discovered the #1 way to improve your timing already!!! Watching yourself on video!! For example.....




My last EMULATOR show (above) was last-minute, and none of us were REALLY into it. Unfortunately, I let my timing and vibrato slip just a bit because I didn't care 100% (live, and learn!!). The BubbleMan Stage (starts about 3:36) has a riff where I just don't seem to groove it with the drums/band 100% precisely (shown at 3:46). I've put a lot of effort into perfecting my timing, riffs, and vibrato as much as possible with this band....so it's great to learn and see my mistakes, so I can find out both...

-why did I make that mistake? In this case, timing.

-how can I help to improve on that mistake in the future, based on the info I have. (this timing issue was really just an "attitude"/consistency issue)


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jstcrsn
post Jun 17 2012, 03:02 AM
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I've been playing five years with a metronome and I am still fighting this .slowly but surely
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Blister
post Jun 17 2012, 04:38 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 16 2012, 01:22 PM) *
Hey Gary. Rushing in front of the beat is a very common thing to all guitarists.. I think we all suffer from it at some point. I always advise people to get to know 3 different positions:

In front of the beat (rushing)
Behind the beat (getting left behind)
On the beat

You already know how it feels and sounds to play in front of the beat so I advise you to try and deliberately play behind the beat for a while. Get the know the feeling of behind slightly late with your playing.. from that position it's only a small adjustment to make until you're on the beat.

For some reason, I think it's easier to correct your rhythm from behind to being on than trying to correct it from being in front to being on. I don't know why that is.. I guess it's because from being behind you can hear the drum beats where you need to be but when you've gone too far ahead you lose your reference easier.

I hope that all makes sense. This might not work for everyone but it does the trick for me smile.gif

Thanks Ben! I know exactly what you mean. This sounds like a good practice technique.

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 16 2012, 02:57 PM) *
I agree with Ben smile.gif I also have the tendency to slow some grooves down because that's how I usually feel them and the drummer always works on pulling me after him and I am getting annoyed because I don't think that FASTER is a good way for the particular song laugh.gif


I can actually understand that even though I have never been in a band. Although, I was in jazz band in high school (played trumpet, not guitar) & we definitely had some issues with the drummer.

QUOTE (derper @ Jun 16 2012, 06:46 PM) *
It's already been said, but practicing with a metronome (always) will help you a TON!! You'll get to know your timing issue a bit better, as well. For example, I've found that my timing isn't as accurate until I warm up for at least 10 mins. Great to know!! Also,timing issues can be different for each "lesson". Sometimes you may subconsciously be playing AHEAD of the beat, to give you a bit of breathing room on an upcoming difficult part of that run/riff/lesson. Understanding the cause of your "mistakes" can always help you to better correct them!!

Also, to help with REC vid timing.... as Dinaga had previously mentioned in another thread (which earned him a GMC funny!!), is to leave the video running while taking runs at REC takes. That way, you'll be more relaxed and it gives you a chance to improve your timing on several successive runs, as opposed to hitting "record" right before EVERY run!! Also, loop the backing! If you're not doing that currently for your REC takes, I guarantee that you will see a HUGE difference!! Of course, then just edit off the whole beginning of the video, to isolate your (last) KILLER rec-take!!!

Also....you've discovered the #1 way to improve your timing already!!! Watching yourself on video!! For example.....

EMULATOR show (above) was last-minute, and none of us were REALLY into it. Unfortunately, I let my timing and vibrato slip just a bit because I didn't care 100% (live, and learn!!). The BubbleMan Stage (starts about 3:36) has a riff where I just don't seem to groove it with the drums/band 100% precisely (shown at 3:46). I've put a lot of effort into perfecting my timing, riffs, and vibrato as much as possible with this band....so it's great to learn and see my mistakes, so I can find out both...

-why did I make that mistake? In this case, timing.

-how can I help to improve on that mistake in the future, based on the info I have. (this timing issue was really just an "attitude"/consistency issue)


I actually use the metronome alot. I master the lick, bump up the bpm, master the lick, etc...

Listening to the recording is where this problem stands out the most. I didn't even think of the loop/replay idea! That is a great idea & I will definitely try this! Thanks!

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 16 2012, 10:02 PM) *
I've been playing five years with a metronome and I am still fighting this .slowly but surely

Well, I can't say this encourages my confidence, but at least I'm not alone! wink.gif


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