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> Who Teaches Who ?
Ben Higgins
post Jun 22 2012, 09:36 AM
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Just wanted to put some thoughts down. I kind of had a mini revelation yesterday, although it may sound simple and obvious when I repeat it.

I cannot teach you how to play guitar.

That's right. I cannot teach you how to play guitar. Neither can anybody else. Neither can anyone teach me.

Words can guide you. Someone can share experience. Show you how they do something or how it's 'supposed to be done'. Point out something that may be a mistake or a hindrance. But one persons experience can not be felt by another. Their experience and their truth is theirs. Their attempt to convey their experience of life to you via word and actions can only show you something but can it teach ?

I believe only our own bodies and minds are capable of teaching us. It's our own experience that teaches us because only our own experience is real. Anybody else's experience is merely a re-telling of something that happened to somebody else. An oration. A story. The only way something can be real is if it's happening to you.

I'm not trying to down-play 'teachers' or 'mentors' in any way. It's more about the fact that I think every human being should become aware of the true capabilities within themselves. The more we surrender our trust in someone's 'word', the less we start listening to ourselves. Why should we trust someone's word over our own experience ? In some cases the 'word' may be right but not always so.. either way, experience should be the real word that you listen to.

The human body is the greatest machine we possess.. it can already move, can already learn from experience, can already mould itself to the demands we make of it. Ask questions and your bodily experiences will provide the answers. But only if you ask the body. What do I mean ? By putting the body through the work.. in other words, practice. You have to put in the work yourself.

But this is just my 'word'. Don't take it as truth. Ask yourself the questions. Look back through your life and see if there has been any time where you have learned something through your own bodily experience. Where something has just 'come together' through your own perseverance and trial and error. You can use that as an indicator of what your body and mind are capable of.

So who teaches who ? At best, we can guide you, hopefully inspire you, direct you, help you, seek answers with you... but we can't have your experiences for you. smile.gif

So, I say..

Trust your own experience. It's your teacher.


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Opetholic
post Jun 22 2012, 10:55 AM
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This is very inspiring Ben. It needs some thinking over it.. But if it is not too personal, I would be interested to hear what made you achieve this mini revelation.. Maybe you can share?


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 22 2012, 10:57 AM
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QUOTE (Opetholic @ Jun 22 2012, 10:55 AM) *
This is very inspiring Ben. It needs some thinking over it.. But if it is not too personal, I would be interested to hear what made you achieve this mini revelation.. Maybe you can share?


Yeah, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.. and anybody else too smile.gif

Maybe some time I'll explain a bit more but for now I'll let you guys explore your own thoughts and experiences wink.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 22 2012, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 22 2012, 09:36 AM) *
... It's our own experience that teaches us because only our own experience is real. Anybody else's experience is merely a re-telling of something that happened to somebody else. An oration. A story. The only way something can be real is if it's happening to you.


To some extent I'd agree and recently Western university education tends to be built around the Hegelian concept of advancement: antithesis, thesis, synthesis. Thus UK Ubiversity students are now often termed 'self-learners'. People learn in different ways and need different teaching styles and different levels of support. To suggest that we are all au fait with being (self motivated to be) self-learners just isn't the case in my educational experience. Self-learning presumes a large degree of reflexivity in order to want to identify and learn from issues. The problem is that for some they may well experience antithesis but that is not necessarily sufficient for them to compare that to their thesis let alone identify how the two are brought to synthesis and progression/improvement.

Also, philosophically speaking, to say that something 'can [only] be real if it happening to you' is rather centric. Then again Western Philosophy - including Hegel - has a long history of centrism...


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 22 2012, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jun 22 2012, 12:01 PM) *
To suggest that we are all au fait with being (self motivated to be) self-learners just isn't the case in my educational experience. Self-learning presumes a large degree of reflexivity in order to want to identify and learn from issues.


I agree.. we don't all automatically think like this. I believe we all have the capability though. And I reckon that we've all experienced this at some point in our lifetimes even if we don't remember or recognise it. I think if people can at least become aware of the potential of their own self to learn and overcome situations that require an ability or skill to be developed, then they might start having more faith in themselves. It's just a thought, maybe I'm being naive !? smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 22 2012, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 22 2012, 12:53 PM) *
... maybe I'm being naive !? smile.gif


Or just being positive about whatever it is that constitutes human nature smile.gif


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PosterBoy
post Jun 22 2012, 01:14 PM
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I've been very aware of the fact that it's through practice and application we learn not through lessons or books.

Knowlege can be imparted by a person or by buying material. I've got an embarrassing amount of guitar instruction material.

That hasn't made me a better guitarist.

I can read the material or listen to an instructor.

That doesn't make me a better guitarist

I can apply the information and practice it

It's only then that i'm becoming a better guitarist


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 22 2012, 01:41 PM
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Ben, you had the guts to put out a truth which can trigger two things:

1) A bit of fear towards people who think that we can teach them no matter what

2) A revelation towards self discovery - I would go for this one tongue.gif

I totally agree with your thoughts man. The only thing is, that human nature drives us to be inspired by others who are at a higher level of mastery in the field we are interested in. Everyone wants to play like x, y and z but I have heard TOO FEW people stating that they want to play like themselves at the HIGHEST degree possible smile.gif

That should really drive us - I'm not saying it's wrong to want to play like some famous guitarist - but as long as you are seeking yourself out, you should want to surpass that idea, right?

I am hoping people will get this and feel inspired to explore more of themselves, while having us here to help along the way smile.gif

Cosmin


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 22 2012, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 22 2012, 01:41 PM) *
I totally agree with your thoughts man. The only thing is, that human nature drives us to be inspired by others who are at a higher level of mastery in the field we are interested in. Everyone wants to play like x, y and z but I have heard TOO FEW people stating that they want to play like themselves at the HIGHEST degree possible smile.gif

That should really drive us - I'm not saying it's wrong to want to play like some famous guitarist - but as long as you are seeking yourself out, you should want to surpass that idea, right?

I am hoping people will get this and feel inspired to explore more of themselves, while having us here to help along the way smile.gif

Cosmin


Yeah, that's a good way of putting it Comrade Lupu !! smile.gif


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JTaylor
post Jun 22 2012, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Opetholic @ Jun 22 2012, 05:55 AM) *
if it is not too personal, I would be interested to hear what made you achieve this mini revelation.. Maybe you can share?


Sounds like he's talking about me! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

On a serious note, this is a very good topic! I have nothing to add though.


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Mudbone
post Jun 23 2012, 06:32 AM
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I always enjoy reading your introspective posts, Ben. They're very well thought out and get me to think biggrin.gif


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MonkeyDAthos
post Jun 23 2012, 07:21 AM
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once some one said to me:

i can't teach you how to draw, i can only help you to perfect your abilities.


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 23 2012, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE (Mudbone @ Jun 23 2012, 06:32 AM) *
They're very well thought out and get me to think biggrin.gif


Well, that's great to hear.. although I don't want to make you guys (and me) think too hard or we might tire ourselves out and have to lie down. Us men are simple folk !! laugh.gif


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Dieterle
post Jun 23 2012, 12:54 PM
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So who teaches who ? At best, we can guide you, hopefully inspire you, direct you, help you, seek answers with you... but we can't have your experiences for you. smile.gif

So, I say..

Trust your own experience. It's your teacher.
[/quote]


Great and TRULEY words !

Imagination Inspiration Intuition - One Self .........

The own experience for sure is the most important part to find the OWN WAY , without listen to this you will only follow others

and never find your own way / in music your own style !

To remember always THIS is a good way to get inspired , guided, directed, help , from OTHERS .

You are ALL GREAT GUYS here and pure INSPIRATION ! wink.gif

Dieter
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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 23 2012, 01:45 PM
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Thank you Dieter smile.gif


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JesseJ
post Jun 23 2012, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 22 2012, 08:36 AM) *
Just wanted to put some thoughts down. I kind of had a mini revelation yesterday, although it may sound simple and obvious when I repeat it.

I cannot teach you how to play guitar.

That's right. I cannot teach you how to play guitar. Neither can anybody else. Neither can anyone teach me.

Words can guide you. Someone can share experience. Show you how they do something or how it's 'supposed to be done'. Point out something that may be a mistake or a hindrance. But one persons experience can not be felt by another. Their experience and their truth is theirs. Their attempt to convey their experience of life to you via word and actions can only show you something but can it teach ?

I believe only our own bodies and minds are capable of teaching us. It's our own experience that teaches us because only our own experience is real. Anybody else's experience is merely a re-telling of something that happened to somebody else. An oration. A story. The only way something can be real is if it's happening to you.

I'm not trying to down-play 'teachers' or 'mentors' in any way. It's more about the fact that I think every human being should become aware of the true capabilities within themselves. The more we surrender our trust in someone's 'word', the less we start listening to ourselves. Why should we trust someone's word over our own experience ? In some cases the 'word' may be right but not always so.. either way, experience should be the real word that you listen to.

The human body is the greatest machine we possess.. it can already move, can already learn from experience, can already mould itself to the demands we make of it. Ask questions and your bodily experiences will provide the answers. But only if you ask the body. What do I mean ? By putting the body through the work.. in other words, practice. You have to put in the work yourself.

But this is just my 'word'. Don't take it as truth. Ask yourself the questions. Look back through your life and see if there has been any time where you have learned something through your own bodily experience. Where something has just 'come together' through your own perseverance and trial and error. You can use that as an indicator of what your body and mind are capable of.

So who teaches who ? At best, we can guide you, hopefully inspire you, direct you, help you, seek answers with you... but we can't have your experiences for you. smile.gif

So, I say..

Trust your own experience. It's your teacher.


I agree with you 100% ben. I Personally believe there is no substitute for practice. I always try to have a guitar in my hands , And as you can see my quote is never miss a chance to play. I think the only way to get good is to play, practice, play, practice, gig ,practice, jam, with friends ect.


I also know from my own experience when I discover something about the guitar it cements itself my brain better than if someone were to tell me about it.


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jstcrsn
post Jun 24 2012, 01:58 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 22 2012, 09:36 AM) *
Just wanted to put some thoughts down. I kind of had a mini revelation yesterday, although it may sound simple and ob
So who teaches who ? At best, we can guide you, hopefully inspire you, direct you, help you, seek answers with you... but we can't have your experiences for you. smile.gif

So, I say..

Trust your own experience. It's your teacher.

Ben,Please mail me whatever your'e having
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