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Opetholic
post Jun 26 2012, 01:07 PM
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Hey GMCers,

Inspired by much of the gear and Axe Fx 2 and whatnot talk that is going on in the forums, I want to ask all of you something I have been wondering about for some time. I haven't found a decent youtube video or a review of what I am looking for so maybe you can directly answer or direct me to somewhere. My question is very simple:

Could anyone compare the sound/tone of a tube amp (ex. Mesa Boogie Mark V) directly miked without any additional effects to say one of these high tech digital machines like Axe Fx 2 simulating a tube amp that is directly connected to computer via USB without any additional effects (no additional distortion, overdrive, delay, reverb, no nothing, just the distortion from the amp and the simulated amp) .. I would very much like to hear how these compare with my own ears, both sounding from the same speakers, played with the same guitar..

Thanks smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 26 2012, 06:25 PM
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Interesting request! I don't own an Axe so I can't help you but I'm also interested on this! smile.gif


This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Jun 26 2012, 06:25 PM


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ElHombre
post Jun 26 2012, 06:29 PM
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search on youtube for fearedse, ola englund a guy who tests amps and digital simulators.
I dont know if he uses any effects tough.


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Opetholic
post Jun 26 2012, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (ElHombre @ Jun 26 2012, 05:29 PM) *
search on youtube for fearedse, ola englund a guy who tests amps and digital simulators.
I dont know if he uses any effects tough.

I know this guy. As far as I have seen he hasn't done what I am asking..


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SirJamsalot
post Jun 26 2012, 09:04 PM
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I can't speak for recording tone, but I've used pedals through a tube amp, and I've played through a Mesa stack dry, and the stack is hands down better for live performance. The tone(s) are just so organic and full, you can't go wrong with a Mesa head. I can't speak for the FX though.


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Opetholic
post Jun 26 2012, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Jun 26 2012, 08:04 PM) *
I can't speak for recording tone, but I've used pedals through a tube amp, and I've played through a Mesa stack dry, and the stack is hands down better for live performance. The tone(s) are just so organic and full, you can't go wrong with a Mesa head. I can't speak for the FX though.

Thanks for the info Jams smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 26 2012, 11:53 PM
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Actually yes! smile.gif Here is a vid from OLA ENGLUND where he compares an Axe FX with a Mesa. The spiff thing about the axe fx is that it can sound like a Mesa, or anything else for that matter and you can record it direct so you dont have to have a loud amp in your recording space competing with your monitors. Having a Mesa is a WONDERFUL thing, like owning a Ferrari or something. Just not always practical.



QUOTE (Opetholic @ Jun 26 2012, 08:07 AM) *
Hey GMCers,

Inspired by much of the gear and Axe Fx 2 and whatnot talk that is going on in the forums, I want to ask all of you something I have been wondering about for some time. I haven't found a decent youtube video or a review of what I am looking for so maybe you can directly answer or direct me to somewhere. My question is very simple:

Could anyone compare the sound/tone of a tube amp (ex. Mesa Boogie Mark V) directly miked without any additional effects to say one of these high tech digital machines like Axe Fx 2 simulating a tube amp that is directly connected to computer via USB without any additional effects (no additional distortion, overdrive, delay, reverb, no nothing, just the distortion from the amp and the simulated amp) .. I would very much like to hear how these compare with my own ears, both sounding from the same speakers, played with the same guitar..

Thanks smile.gif



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Opetholic
post Jun 27 2012, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 26 2012, 10:53 PM) *
Actually yes! smile.gif Here is a vid from OLA ENGLUND where he compares an Axe FX with a Mesa. The spiff thing about the axe fx is that it can sound like a Mesa, or anything else for that matter and you can record it direct so you dont have to have a loud amp in your recording space competing with your monitors. Having a Mesa is a WONDERFUL thing, like owning a Ferrari or something. Just not always practical.

Hey Todd, thanks a lot for sharing this!! Actually I have seen this before. I know I am being difficult but this is not exactly what I am looking for. In my opinion this is rather a poor demonstration, I want something more academic. Firstly he records over a backing track and everything sounds just great over a backing track with nice drums and loud bass. Second he uses a tube screamer which already changes the tone of the amplifier itself. Third it is not clear at all to me what he does with the Axe unit. Does he connect it in series with the effects loop of the Mesa and bypass its preamp, does he directly connect via USB to computer which I doubt? It is very unclear from this video what he is comparing. It sounds basically like there is absolutely no difference with Axe Fx and the Mesa head which I don't believe unless I hear with my own ears from a clearer and more just demonstration. Simply because I find it very hard to imagine that you can simulate the work function of a tube transistor by means of a digital circuit with such precision... I want to hear it !!! biggrin.gif

What I want is so simple: No backing tracks, no other effects. Just connect the Mesa via a microphone to your computer or whatever and then to a set of speakers and play a power chord and then connect Axe Fx via USB to the computer or whatever and then to the same set of speakers and play the same power chord. I want to hear the difference smile.gif


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JaxN4
post Jun 27 2012, 11:11 AM
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Once again, this isn't exactly what your after but ex GMC Instructor, David Walliman explains the depth and features of the AXE 2 compared tto the 11 rack and Axe ultra.

Have a look anyway


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 27 2012, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (Opetholic @ Jun 27 2012, 08:08 AM) *
...

What I want is so simple: No backing tracks, no other effects. ...


I'd be surprised if there is one. Many of the comparisons of equpiment are more about marketting one or other product and so not rigourous ABX tests with no additional effects/processing/backing/whatever.Personally I take Youtube tests/trials with a pinch of salt for all of your reasons and more. I'd also say that a simple AB test even with all those extras you mention excluded would still not necessarily be the level playing field that you rightly want for a comparison.

Best advice I can give, albeit I accept that you may not be able to do this, is hire both and control the test yourself.


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JaxN4
post Jun 27 2012, 12:19 PM
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Sorry, I forgot to post the link I mentioned ,in the previous post:



This post has been edited by JaxN4: Jun 27 2012, 12:20 PM


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SpaseMoonkey
post Jun 27 2012, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jun 27 2012, 07:18 AM) *
I'd be surprised if there is one. Many of the comparisons of equpiment are more about marketting one or other product and so not rigourous ABX tests with no additional effects/processing/backing/whatever.Personally I take Youtube tests/trials with a pinch of salt for all of your reasons and more. I'd also say that a simple AB test even with all those extras you mention excluded would still not necessarily be the level playing field that you rightly want for a comparison.

Best advice I can give, albeit I accept that you may not be able to do this, is hire both and control the test yourself.


I have to agree with this, even if it is a clean comparison. Nothing beats being in person to hear the difference considering everyone has a different taste in what they hear.


I can honestly comment towards 1 statement you said Opetholic. You mentioned him using an OD pedal. Have you heard a Rectifier in person plain jane? Because I really can't stand the sound for every day playing, unless I have an OD/Distortion pedal on it. The amp alone sounds really dull to my ears. For recording I can deal with it adding it as a layer to give more frequency but that is about it.


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Opetholic
post Jun 27 2012, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (JaxN4 @ Jun 27 2012, 10:11 AM) *
Once again, this isn't exactly what your after but ex GMC Instructor, David Walliman explains the depth and features of the AXE 2 compared tto the 11 rack and Axe ultra.

Have a look anyway

Thanks for sharing the video Jax, I will have it a go..

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jun 27 2012, 11:18 AM) *
I'd be surprised if there is one. Many of the comparisons of equpiment are more about marketting one or other product and so not rigourous ABX tests with no additional effects/processing/backing/whatever.Personally I take Youtube tests/trials with a pinch of salt for all of your reasons and more. I'd also say that a simple AB test even with all those extras you mention excluded would still not necessarily be the level playing field that you rightly want for a comparison.

Best advice I can give, albeit I accept that you may not be able to do this, is hire both and control the test yourself.

I agree with you completely Tony. I don't think I will find what I am looking for in Youtube and as you say best thing I could do is to do the testing myself. But that is not quite possible so I was hoping that a fellow GMCer could help out smile.gif I am sure there is someone out there who owns a tube amp and an Axe unit smile.gif

QUOTE (SpaseMoonkey @ Jun 27 2012, 11:45 AM) *
I can honestly comment towards 1 statement you said Opetholic. You mentioned him using an OD pedal. Have you heard a Rectifier in person plain jane? Because I really can't stand the sound for every day playing, unless I have an OD/Distortion pedal on it. The amp alone sounds really dull to my ears. For recording I can deal with it adding it as a layer to give more frequency but that is about it.

Hey SpaseMoonkey, I am sure you are right about the sound quality of a rectifier plain. But what I am looking for is a comparison between the tone and the feeling of a Rectifier (no matter how dull or plain it is without an effect) and the Axe unit. I am trying to understand how well these units can simulate a machine with a tube transistor..


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PosterBoy
post Jun 27 2012, 04:23 PM
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Check the Axe Fx Forums there are loads of examples of presets many of them just of Amp and Cab.

It's surprising how much of the tone comes from the cab and mic choice\placement. It dramatically changes things


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ringmar
post Jun 28 2012, 02:53 PM
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The following vids kind of do what you are asking, but some still are "in the mix" (which IMHO is what really matters anyway.. but i do understand you wanting more raw samples.) With a high quality modeler like the Fractal or Kemper stuff, you get 99% of the way to the tube amp/cabinet sound.. but you get TONS of options in the Axe/Kemper so if you feel like playing a rectifier one day, and Hiwatt the next... you can. Plus all the amazing effects (especially in the Axe)











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Opetholic
post Jun 28 2012, 05:04 PM
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Thanks ringmar for the links. I will watch them with great interest!


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 30 2012, 03:54 AM
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I can sorta help you there.

Of course many MESA owners will say I"m nuts. But from my personal experience, without something in front of it (such as in the demo), the Mesa Recto series doesn't sound 'Right". Solos sound a bit hollow and less "gainy". But crank it up and it will MELT YOUR FACE! And the faces of anyone within 100 feet.

The AXE FX is a lot more flexible in that it can sound sorta like a MESA or pretty much anything else. The Boogie is good at being a Boogie. (Again, many Mesa owners will disagree as is their right). You can get other tones out of it, but IMHO, they all sound like variations of a Boogie Recto. Not that this is a bad thing. THAT AMP IS A LEGEND FOR A REASON. It's an awesome, face melting, pile of DOOM and DESTRUCTION!

The Axe FX is entirely emulated so it can fake the sound of several amps/fx/chains/cabs/etc. So it comes down to.

1.)Play live quite a bit? Want to Impress pretty much everyone with a loud, large amp that melts faces? Get a Mesa.

2.)Record at home quite a bit? Gig less? Not tons of room or volume to spare at home? Get an Axe FX.

I hate to break it down so simply but that's the bulk of it.
Todd



QUOTE (Opetholic @ Jun 27 2012, 03:08 AM) *
Hey Todd, thanks a lot for sharing this!! Actually I have seen this before. I know I am being difficult but this is not exactly what I am looking for. In my opinion this is rather a poor demonstration, I want something more academic. Firstly he records over a backing track and everything sounds just great over a backing track with nice drums and loud bass. Second he uses a tube screamer which already changes the tone of the amplifier itself. Third it is not clear at all to me what he does with the Axe unit. Does he connect it in series with the effects loop of the Mesa and bypass its preamp, does he directly connect via USB to computer which I doubt? It is very unclear from this video what he is comparing. It sounds basically like there is absolutely no difference with Axe Fx and the Mesa head which I don't believe unless I hear with my own ears from a clearer and more just demonstration. Simply because I find it very hard to imagine that you can simulate the work function of a tube transistor by means of a digital circuit with such precision... I want to hear it !!! biggrin.gif

What I want is so simple: No backing tracks, no other effects. Just connect the Mesa via a microphone to your computer or whatever and then to a set of speakers and play a power chord and then connect Axe Fx via USB to the computer or whatever and then to the same set of speakers and play the same power chord. I want to hear the difference smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 30 2012, 03:56 AM


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