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> Any Welsh Here?, Just had a quick question.
Todd Simpson
post Jun 26 2012, 09:33 PM
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I was watching a documentary about King Arthur and learned that it was actually a WELSH legend that was later sort of adopted by the English. Also, that the Welsh didn't historically consider the Anglo Saxons to to be British? But they saw them as sort of German invaders? I never really got the English/Welsh divide until watching this documentary. Then I read that 75 percent of Welsh to this day don't see themselves as British but Welsh. Is this really true?



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llibach
post Jun 26 2012, 10:40 PM
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Oh man Todd, you just had to get me going. tongue.gif The English are invaders and when we see them we start sharpening our axes. laugh.gif But yeah most of us do consider ourselves to be Welsh not British, of course we understand that we are part of the UK but we have a very strong national identity and in some areas like where I live we still speak Welsh as our first language, my kids are 4 + 2 and don't speak English yet apart from what they pick up off TV.
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that for years we've been the weaker nation but have still held on to many traditions and the language and it gives us a sense of pride in our nationality.
And don't even start with Prince Charles the so called Prince of Wales. When I consider him my prince I'll eat my own ......... .
CYMRU AM BYTH!

Just remembered too. That village they were in on the youtube clip, Pennal, used to be on my delivery rounds and about 5 mins drive away is the house Bron yr aur where Led Zepplin stayed and wrote the song Bron Yr Aur stomp. Just a little trivia for you biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by llibach: Jun 26 2012, 11:29 PM
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Mudbone
post Jun 26 2012, 11:17 PM
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Unfortunately most of what I hear about Wales comes from Jeremy Clarkson laugh.gif I must say though, the amount of cultural and linguistic diversity in the British Isles is quite remarkable. For centuries, the English failed to eradicate non-English languages. In North America however, everybody speaks pretty much the same kind of English, with some regional variations of course.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 27 2012, 12:06 AM
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Thanks for the reply wink.gif This sort of lingering resentment is something we see hear in the Southern United States as well. There are still groups of folks who resent being beaten in Civil war. The state I live in even flew the Battle Flag of the confederate Army on the state capitol flag pole until about ten years ago. Hopefully the good bits are what get kept and bad bits eventually fall away. The flag being taken down for example. I was all for it being removed as it was never a "State Flag", it was a battle flag, and that battle is over. Thankfully many fine things that are "Southern" have remained in terms of music, food, literature, etc. The good bits. smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (llibach @ Jun 26 2012, 05:40 PM) *
Oh man Todd, you just had to get me going. tongue.gif The English are invaders and when we see them we start sharpening our axes. laugh.gif But yeah most of us do consider ourselves to be Welsh not British, of course we understand that we are part of the UK but we have a very strong national identity and in some areas like where I live we still speak Welsh as our first language, my kids are 4 + 2 and don't speak English yet apart from what they pick up off TV.
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that for years we've been the weaker nation but have still held on to many traditions and the language and it gives us a sense of pride in our nationality.
And don't even start with Prince Charles the so called Prince of Wales. When I consider him my prince I'll eat my own ......... .
CYMRU AM BYTH!

Just remembered too. That village they were in on the youtube clip, Pennal, used to be on my delivery rounds and about 5 mins drive away is the house Bron yr aur where Led Zepplin stayed and wrote the song Bron Yr Aur stomp. Just a little trivia for you biggrin.gif



Clarkson does bag on Whales a bit. But it doesn't seem malicious. More like an older brother teasing a smaller sibling. But I don't imagine it goes over very big among the Welsh!

QUOTE (Mudbone @ Jun 26 2012, 06:17 PM) *
Unfortunately most of what I hear about Wales comes from Jeremy Clarkson laugh.gif I must say though, the amount of cultural and linguistic diversity in the British Isles is quite remarkable. For centuries, the English failed to eradicate non-English languages. In North America however, everybody speaks pretty much the same kind of English, with some regional variations of course.



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Ben Higgins
post Jun 27 2012, 09:09 AM
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I'm not really exactly what my lineage is.. I know on my Dad's side it goes back to Ireland from his grandfather but that's all I know. Not sure where the other half comes from laugh.gif

In some way most of us Englanders came from Europe. If you go back far enough in any nation, there's no real such thing as a native when you consider that people travelled over continents that were once joined together to get somewhere else. It's funny when you hear about people going on about being this or that.. we're all immigrants really.

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Jun 27 2012, 09:09 AM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 27 2012, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 26 2012, 09:33 PM) *
I was watching a documentary about King Arthur and learned that it was actually a WELSH legend that was later sort of adopted by the English. ...
Todd


There are many countries and regions that claim to have originated the Arthurian legends Todd although Wales have a very srong/strongest claim.

As for Wales and the Welsh and how they perceive the English and vice versa - eveything that Laibach says.

The UK is not a single country and English identity/culture does not define the national cultures and identiites of the other countries. The sociologist and writer Darkus Howe undertook a project some years back to identify and clairfy what English identity and culture are. He concluded that it is too variable and pretty much impossible to describe and define.

Even as a country England struggles to be unified - the North East wants a local assembly, local autonomy and many actually would prefer to be part of Scotland/ Liverpool for decades has not looked to London and Downing Street and many there also would like autonomy...

Far too often and despite the ephemerality of whatever English culuture and identity are they are assumed to be synonimous with British cultures and identities. Against that it's perhaps a little ironic that Wales has a much clearer and more coherent sense of self. Ironic given the historical suppression of other British cultures. I think the Irish historian Robert Kee once said that the tragedy for Ireland is that it is so close to England that the English covet it but not far enough away that the Irish can safely ignore England. The same is arguably true - perhaps more so - for Wales. Charles, 'Prince of Wales', yeah right dry.gif .

Cerys Matthews sang 'Every morning I wake up and thank God I'm Welsh.' Similarly I used to have a tee-shirt that said (in Irish) 'I'm Irish' on the front and 'I thank God I'm not English' on the back.





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PosterBoy
post Jun 28 2012, 11:50 AM
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Just remember that the Severn Bridge a toll bridge which takes you from England to Wales, it's free to go across into Wales but you have to pay to get the hell out of there!!!


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 28 2012, 12:59 PM
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I believe that all the British Isles have an outstanding cultural heritage and I can't wait to visit! I don't agree with arguing over things which happened in the past - WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS? As that song goes biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Jun 28 2012, 12:59 PM


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 28 2012, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 28 2012, 12:59 PM) *
I believe that all the British Isles have an outstanding cultural heritage and I can't wait to visit! I don't agree with arguing over things which happened in the past - WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS? As that song goes biggrin.gif


Well I definitely agree that it's silly to carry the burden of a grievance that our ancestors may have started. That was their problem. I've always liked the Welsh and the Scots.. I've got them in the family as well !


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bleez
post Jun 28 2012, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 28 2012, 03:03 PM) *
Well I definitely agree that it's silly to carry the burden of a grievance that our ancestors may have started. That was their problem. I've always liked the Welsh and the Scots.. I've got them in the family as well !

couldn't agree more smile.gif

Ive only been to Wales once but it was really nice.... even if they wouldn't take my Scottish money! LOL I had to go into a bank and change it into english notes........ they can exchange my money but they can never exchange my FREEDOM biggrin.gif



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llibach
post Jun 28 2012, 09:55 PM
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Of course there's no real animosity towards the past but I think it's the same everywhere, everybody wants their own identity whatever their nationality.
My Theory is we prefer to call ourselves Welsh because a lot of people outside the UK think Wales is a part of England and not it's own seperate nation. When I travelled a few years ago I always had to explain to people where Wales was and that we were not a part of England. Calling ourselves Welsh not British is merly a staement that we are a seperate nation not an actual refusal of being a part of Britain.
But I'd still like to string up Jeremy Clarkson. tongue.gif
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Ben Higgins
post Jun 28 2012, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 28 2012, 07:20 PM) *
they can exchange my money but they can never exchange my FREEDOM biggrin.gif


laugh.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Jun 29 2012, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (llibach @ Jun 28 2012, 09:55 PM) *
Of course there's no real animosity towards the past but I think it's the same everywhere, everybody wants their own identity whatever their nationality.
My Theory is we prefer to call ourselves Welsh because a lot of people outside the UK think Wales is a part of England and not it's own seperate nation. When I travelled a few years ago I always had to explain to people where Wales was and that we were not a part of England. Calling ourselves Welsh not British is merly a staement that we are a seperate nation not an actual refusal of being a part of Britain.

Very well put! I have never had any problems with the Welsh. I used to go there at least a couple of times a year for Holidays or long weekends. We also used to go to quite a few gigs at Aberystwyth Uni as well as Surfing and Canoeing at the Gower, near to Rhossili. Always had a good time, even despite the inclement weather at times!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

QUOTE (llibach @ Jun 28 2012, 09:55 PM) *
But I'd still like to string up Jeremy Clarkson. tongue.gif

You and a lot of the rest of the World!!
laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Sensible Jones: Jun 29 2012, 01:28 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 30 2012, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 28 2012, 05:12 PM) *
laugh.gif


DOUBLE smile.gif smile.gif

Some very interesting replies. It seems we are in a bit of transition as everything heads more and more 'Global" and ask folks tend to get a bit "clannish" from bit to bit, especially when the economy is in a bit of a funk. Over here in the states, we are as divided as we have ever been since our Civil War according to several studies. The lines are being drawn more over ideology than territory though. It seems there is a "Pro/Tolerance of Govt" and an "Anti/Suspicious of Govt" (not that folks can't be bits of both, they are) that seems to be splitting up the country.

One of the things we are dealing with is that our demography is changing, as it always has changed over the years. But this is a natural thing I think. I'm all about "By and for the People", if the people change, so should the rest of it. The flexibility is what keeps it spiff, not the rigidity. This coming from a "Southerner" might strike my countrymen in the "North" as a bit of a shock. People from the Deep South can be a bit, well, ...........resistant to change? But hopefully we will see less of that as wel all realize it's one big boat we are sailing in, not lots of little slips with oars. smile.gif
Todd


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Ben Higgins
post Jun 30 2012, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 30 2012, 03:48 AM) *
DOUBLE smile.gif smile.gif

Some very interesting replies. It seems we are in a bit of transition as everything heads more and more 'Global" and ask folks tend to get a bit "clannish" from bit to bit, especially when the economy is in a bit of a funk. Over here in the states, we are as divided as we have ever been since our Civil War according to several studies. The lines are being drawn more over ideology than territory though. It seems there is a "Pro/Tolerance of Govt" and an "Anti/Suspicious of Govt" (not that folks can't be bits of both, they are) that seems to be splitting up the country.

One of the things we are dealing with is that our demography is changing, as it always has changed over the years. But this is a natural thing I think. I'm all about "By and for the People", if the people change, so should the rest of it. The flexibility is what keeps it spiff, not the rigidity. This coming from a "Southerner" might strike my countrymen in the "North" as a bit of a shock. People from the Deep South can be a bit, well, ...........resistant to change? But hopefully we will see less of that as wel all realize it's one big boat we are sailing in, not lots of little slips with oars. smile.gif
Todd


I have to agree with you here, Todd. Although I find it very cool, interesting and, up to a point, important to identity with our cultures we have to remember that we're only here on this earth for a short period of time and when we're gone, we're gone.. better to harmonise with and accept any other breathers of the same air as us.. life's too short to worry about the other rubbish.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 1 2012, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jun 30 2012, 04:05 AM) *
I have to agree with you here, Todd. Although I find it very cool, interesting and, up to a point, important to identity with our cultures we have to remember that we're only here on this earth for a short period of time and when we're gone, we're gone.. better to harmonise with and accept any other breathers of the same air as us.. life's too short to worry about the other rubbish.


Well said! smile.gif I think we should start our own political party LTSTWATOR!!!!! (Life's too short to worry about the other Rubbish!) Whaddya think? We could hook up with the Pirate part and probably get seats in European Parliament!


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Ben Higgins
post Jul 1 2012, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 1 2012, 07:05 AM) *
Well said! smile.gif I think we should start our own political party LTSTWATOR!!!!! (Life's too short to worry about the other Rubbish!) Whaddya think? We could hook up with the Pirate part and probably get seats in European Parliament!


I think us guys here at GMC are always up for a subversive revolution ! biggrin.gif


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