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> Sumit's Chords And Melodies
Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 25 2012, 12:41 PM
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Hey Sumit smile.gif

This is your thread wink.gif Please tell me a little bit about yourself and your playing experience/ abilities! This is where we'll start talking about building around your melodic lines, so feel free to ask anything you need to know!

Cosmin


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sumitnxt
post Aug 25 2012, 01:01 PM
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thanks cosmin,

My skills are - i understand about scales , i started on scales only2 months back. i can jam over the backing tracks of G major ionian. I haven't learnt more scales yet. I am trying on building my lead speed. About rhythm i know about 10-15 of the most basic chords and have been singing and playing bacing music based on that. recently i have bought an electric guitar, and joined GMC ,

MY approach for the moment is that I learn atleast one small lick every day. mostly i am picking up the GMC lick of the day and so far learnt 2 of them ( though not exactly mastered them ). I am doing this so that each day i don't get confused on what to do and what not to do and have a clear goal of learning 1 lick per day .

also during the day, i pick up a song whose chords i don't know and practice new chords and improve strumming. So with this approach i am aiming to improve both finger control and speed required for the lead and chord vocabulary and strumming.

So thats about my backgound. Now about melodic lines and chords -

on your videochat that day, i asked you how to come up with the right chord progression once i know the melodic line. this will be really helpful to me in performing the excercises that you were showing on videochat that day but also for learning chords of indian music. you see unlike western music the chords of indian music are not readily available on the internet. and being an indian i would like to work on indian music as well as western.
I would sure like to play on guitar any song whose music is playing in my head. So i think now i have answered your question(s)
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sumitnxt
post Aug 25 2012, 05:24 PM
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cosmin , i was wondering , based on my background could you suggest me one of your licks to start with, i would work work on it with you and you could guide me through
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 26 2012, 11:49 AM
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Hey Sumit smile.gif

I love the instrumental Indian music and it's flavors so this will be a very interesting thing to tackle.

First, we should aim to understand the theory behind scales, their structure, the way chords are being built and the relationship between chords and notes/ phrases/ arpeggios.

Based on this, you will build a strong knowhow of music disection and analysis so that you may be able to understand almost every music piece that you will hear - if you practice and focus on this, of course smile.gif

What do you say? I would start out like this smile.gif

Cosmin


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sumitnxt
post Aug 26 2012, 12:37 PM
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good to hear that you like indian instrumental music smile.gif
yes i wan't to build up the right foundation you mentioned.

I am sure under your guidance i would be more successful than trying theory on my own. Also lets make it equally practical and i would request you to help me with melodical lessons for excercises rather than kind of excercises that feel completely like a robot
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 26 2012, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (sumitnxt @ Aug 26 2012, 11:37 AM) *
good to hear that you like indian instrumental music smile.gif
yes i wan't to build up the right foundation you mentioned.

I am sure under your guidance i would be more successful than trying theory on my own. Also lets make it equally practical and i would request you to help me with melodical lessons for excercises rather than kind of excercises that feel completely like a robot


Alright! Let's get to work then smile.gif

Let's start with the following little drill, which I've used with other theory enthusiastic students and it provided good results wink.gif

1) We have the major scale built up using this formula: w w h w w w h.

w = whole step
h = half step

2) Any natural major scale is built after this formula. Example:

C D E F G A B C

there's a w between C and D
there's a w between D and E
there's a h between E and F
there's a w between F and G
there's a w between G and A
there's a w between A and B
there's a h between B and C

Now, if you look at your guitar, you will notice that if you play the C note (3rd fret D string) the D note is one whole step up, on the same string. That means that the note right next to the C note is C# and the note next to C # is D. So, 2 frets up means one whole step and one fret up means a half step.

3) Now, we have concluded that E is the major third in the case of C major and if we lower the major 3rd with one half step, we get the minor third and automatically, we can create a minor chord - C minor in our case.

Here are the formulas:

1 3 5 - major chord formula. Example: C E G
1 b3 5 - minor chord formula. Example: C Eb G

4) If you know these now biggrin.gif, please tell me how does the D major scale look like - what are the notes making it up. (Use the w w h w w w h formula, starting from D) and tell me the notes making up the D major and D minor chords

What do you think mate? smile.gif

Cosmin


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sumitnxt
post Aug 26 2012, 02:55 PM
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D major scale - using wwhwwwh
D-w- E-w- F#-h- G-w-A-w- B-w-C#-h- D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

D major chord
using 1 3 5 = D F# A
D minor chord
using 1 b3 5 = D F A
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 27 2012, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE (sumitnxt @ Aug 26 2012, 01:55 PM) *
D major scale - using wwhwwwh
D-w- E-w- F#-h- G-w-A-w- B-w-C#-h- D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

D major chord
using 1 3 5 = D F# A
D minor chord
using 1 b3 5 = D F A


This is perfect wink.gif Now, I would like to ask you to workout the same drill for the Bb and Ab major scales biggrin.gif I gave you different ones in comparison with Himansu, so that you two won't cheat biggrin.gif


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sumitnxt
post Aug 27 2012, 02:40 PM
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For Normals you mentioned that

there's a w between C and D
there's a w between D and E
there's a h between E and F
there's a w between F and G
there's a w between G and A
there's a w between A and B
there's a h between B and C

so For Flats i am inferring that

there's a w between Cb and Db
there's a w between Db and Eb
there's a h between Eb and Fb
there's a w between Fb and Gb
there's a w between Gb and Ab
there's a w between Ab and Bb
there's a h between Bb and Cb

Bb plus half = Cb and Cb plus half = C So i am inferring that Bb plus whole = C

first 4 notes are -
Bb // C // D / Eb //

Eb plus half = Fb
Fb plus half = F
so Eb plus whole = F


CODE
so complete Bb major scale
Bb // C // D /  Eb // F // G // A / Bb
major chord (135) = Bb D F
minor chord (1b3 5) = Bb Db F


CODE
Ab major Scale
Ab // Bb // C / Db // Eb // F // G / Ab
major chord (135) =Ab C Eb
minor chord (1b35) = Ab Cb Eb


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 27 2012, 03:39 PM
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Correct wink.gif Now, am I correct to assume that you can figure out any major scale and a major chord derived from its root? If so, how about moving a bit forward smile.gif

Do you know anything about the concept of harmonizing a scale?


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sumitnxt
post Aug 27 2012, 03:50 PM
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alex was teaching on video chat that day , i picked up a few things, but other than that No.
here's what i picked up but not sure if my understanding is correct or not ?

harmonizing means playing chord progressions based on the scale

so if its A major scale we need to harmonize

A major = A // B // Db / D // E // Gb // Ab / A

then using triads we can play the following chord progressions to harmonize

A Db E
B D Gb
Db E Ab
E Ab B
Gb A Db
Ab B D

i am not sure if my understanding is correct , and if it is then i don't know how can we include a minor chord in between the progressions , and is there any other way to create a chord progression other than triads ?

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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 27 2012, 04:20 PM
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Mate, let's take an easier example - G major - it has G A B C D E F# G

Harmonizing it offers us Gmaj Am Bm Cmaj Dmaj Emin F#dim Gmaj

These chords result from the fact that we can only use notes belonging to the scale itself in order to make up chords which harmonize the scale. based on these assumptions, can you please tell me what notes are making up these chords? After that, we'll get to your other question wink.gif


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sumitnxt
post Aug 27 2012, 04:29 PM
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G A B C D E F#- these notes on the fretboard ?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 28 2012, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE (sumitnxt @ Aug 27 2012, 03:29 PM) *
G A B C D E F#- these notes on the fretboard ?


Yes mate, but let's see what are the note combinations making up the chords, when harmonizing the scale wink.gif


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sumitnxt
post Aug 28 2012, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE
Yes mate, but let's see what are the note combinations making up the chords, when harmonizing the scale


cosmin, i really don't understand what we are trying to achieve here .

for me to be answering this question requires - looking at the chords

Gmaj Am Bm Cmaj Dmaj Emin F#dim Gmaj

on the fretboard and check what notes have been used. is this what we wan't ?

also since i have no theory background - i know the above chord only because i have memorized them ? Are the notes that form these chords to be memorised or is there a way to find how they are formed. sorry but i am getting a little confused. Perhaps before asking the questions if you give me rough outline at what is about to come i would get the bigger picture

thanks
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 28 2012, 06:51 PM
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Hey Sumit smile.gif I was trying to make you harmonize Gmajor like you have done with the Amajor scale and tell me the notes making up the chords so that I may take you to the next level where we use 7th intervals. I thought you knew the formulas needed to harmonize the major scale, since you wrote those chords down for me smile.gif

You do not know the formulas? You have memorized the notes making up the chords from somewhere?

Please let me know and I will explain everything from 0 if you wish. I took things a little bit faster just because I had the impression you knew these things smile.gif

Cosmin


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sumitnxt
post Aug 28 2012, 07:03 PM
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ok , i understand now that you thought i already knew . well i think we should totally start from level 0 on the topic of harmonizing , i don't know the formulas smile.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 29 2012, 08:34 AM
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biggrin.gif Ok mate, here we go smile.gif

Harmonizing means - creating chords out of each note in the scale, using only notes belonging to the scale itself. This rule renders the following chord types: M m m M M m diminished M I.e: Harmonizing C major: Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bdiminished Cmaj

M = major

m = minor

The major chord formula is 1 3 5. I.e: C major is C E G

The minor chord formula is 1 b3 5. I.e: C minor is C Eb G

The diminished chord formula is 1 b3 b5 -> B diminished is B D F

Knowing these smile.gif please harmonize the G major, E major and Ab major

Please let me know if you understood the ideas biggrin.gif

Cosmin


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sumitnxt
post Aug 29 2012, 09:30 AM
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yes now i have understood the idea.
a scale can be harmonized using chords formed by following formula - M m m M M m diminished M
G major, E major and Ab major
G major scale - G // A // B / C // D // E // Gb / G
G major can be harmonized using the following chords - Gmaj.. Am..Bm..Cmaj..Dmaj..Em..Gbdim..GMaj
notes of G major chord (135) = G B D
notes of G minor chord (1b35) = G Bb D
notes of Gbdim chord (1b3b5) --> Gb major scale --> Gb // Ab // Bb / B // Db // Eb // F / Gb --> (1b3b5) --> Gb A C
=======================================================
E major scale = E // Gb // Ab / A // B // Db // Eb / E
harmonizing of E major scale --> M m m M M m diminished M --> Emaj..Gbm..Abm..Amaj..Bmaj..Dbm..Ebdim..Emaj
Eb diminished chord (1b3b5) --> Eb major scale --> Eb // F // G / Ab // Bb // C // D / Eb --> 1b3b5 --> Eb G Bb
=======================================================
QUOTE
Cosmin 1 question here - in your last post you wrote
The diminished chord formula is 1 b3 b5 -> B diminished is B D F

you have directly written B diminished is B D F without writing the B major scale first and the picking up 1b3b5 ... how have you done this without writing it out ... does that mean you are not applying the formula because you remember the notes ??

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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 30 2012, 10:26 AM
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Hey Sumit! Your assumptions are correct but, since we are dealing with major scales which do not imply the usage of flats (cool.gif from the first place (we have G major not Bb major for instance) I would like to ask you to re-do the drill and use # instead of b wink.gif

On the other hand, I know some chords by heart and I can name their notes pretty fast. Otherwise it takes some seconds until I can figure out the notes by using the formulas. Once you know the chord formulas and all the notes making up a scale, you can get really really good at decomposing a chord and quickly stating its notes.

What do you think?

Cosmin


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