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> Anders Breivik Gets 22 Years For Killing 69 Kids
Todd Simpson
post Aug 28 2012, 04:39 AM
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I was a bit shocked to hear that the psycho nut job in Norlway that killed 69 kids on an island camping spot was sentenced to 22 years in jail. Thats about 100 days per murder.

THATS JUST CRAZY

IHe would have gotten the chair or the needle for that crap in the states.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19365616


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Ben Higgins
post Aug 28 2012, 09:18 AM
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True Todd, true. Although for 22 yrs, read 'for the rest of his life'. Although I believe that death is sometimes too easy a way out sometimes, they should live with what they did.. but then it's no real punishment if they don't have a conscience to rot in a cell with.



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korblitz
post Aug 28 2012, 09:21 AM
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Sorry, but how the hell did he kill 69 kids?
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Slavenko Erazer
post Aug 28 2012, 09:23 AM
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Yeah , but i think they can pro-long the sentence after 21 years, because by the Norway's law you can't be in jail longer then 21 years whatever you did! ohmy.gif

The needle or chair is also a weak punishment for such bastard ...

QUOTE (korblitz @ Aug 28 2012, 08:21 AM) *
Sorry, but how the hell did he kill 69 kids?


Sorry man, do youi watch the news or read newspapers?? mellow.gif

The world was shocked on that faitfull day 22 of july 2011.
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 28 2012, 09:30 AM
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I believe that 22 years is the maximum sentence in Norway and so under there legal system just.

In England there have been far too many cases of wrongful conviction and because of this I don't agree with a death penalty.

Just three examples (there are plenty of others):

In 1975 the 'Birmingham 6' were sentenced to life imprisonment for the Birmingham pub bombing where 21 people died and nearly 200were injured. At the time the English tabloid press wanted the men to receive the death penalty. Nearly 20 years later in 1991 they were released after an appeal, which stated that the men had been wrongfully convicted based on false evidence and police perjury.

There are other cases like the Guildford 4 and the Maguire 7 - all of whom were also wrongfully convicted and many years later were exonerated and, with the exception of Pat Conlon who had died in prison, released. With the Guildford 4 - they were tried and convicted of murder, which no longer has a death penalty. The judge at the time said he regretted that they had not been charged with treason as he could then have handed out death sentences (which confuses justice with retribution and treason with murder).

So 17 innocent men served 20 or so years each for a crime they did not commit. One died in prison. If the UK had a death penalty all 17 would quite likely have been sentenced to death.



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Ben Higgins
post Aug 28 2012, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 28 2012, 09:30 AM) *
I believe that 22 years is the maximum sentence in Norway and so under there legal system just.

In England there have been far too many cases of wrongful conviction and because of this I don't agree with a death penalty.

Just three examples (there are plenty of others):

In 1975 the 'Birmingham 6' were sentenced to life imprisonment for the Birmingham pub bombing where 21 people died and nearly 200were injured. At the time the English tabloid press wanted the men to receive the death penalty. Nearly 20 years later in 1991 they were released after an appeal, which stated that the men had been wrongfully convicted based on false evidence and police perjury.

There are other cases like the Guildford 4 and the Maguire 7 - all of whom were also wrongfully convicted and many years later were exonerated and, with the exception of Pat Conlon who had died in prison, released. With the Guildford 4 - they were tried and convicted of murder, which no longer has a death penalty. The judge at the time said he regretted that they had not been charged with treason as he could then have handed out death sentences (which confuses justice with retribution and treason with murder).

So 17 innocent men served 20 or so years each for a crime they did not commit. One died in prison. If the UK had a death penalty all 17 would quite likely have been sentenced to death.


I also don't believe in the death penalty, just for the fact that I don't think we have that right.. and once you start down that road, where does it end ? But I can totally understand why people want it.. it's just like the subject of revenge, retribution, whatever word you use.. it's the first thing you want and seems the logical thing to want. Annoyingly, it doesn't make it the right thing to do. That's our test.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 28 2012, 09:43 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 28 2012, 09:36 AM) *
... it's just like the subject of revenge, retribution, whatever word you use.. it's the first thing you want and seems the logical thing to want. Annoyingly, it doesn't make it the right thing to do. That's our test.


Absolutely agree Ben.

If I remember correctly when Breivik was arrested there was an internview with a leader of the Norwegian Labour Youth movement. He was asked if Breivik should be given a death sentence and he said no. He said that the case would demonstrate that Norway is a civilised, modern society that believes in justice and not retribution.


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TreyDeschamp
post Aug 28 2012, 02:07 PM
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Sickening.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 28 2012, 02:10 PM
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He deserves jail for all his life... mad.gif

He deserves jail for all his life... mad.gif

edit: this appeared twice by error but I will keep it double. :/

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Aug 28 2012, 02:21 PM


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Gitarrero
post Aug 28 2012, 05:12 PM
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Like ( I guess) all europeans I am strongly against the death penalty,

22 years is the maximum you can get in Norway, in Germany it's 25 years I guess. But it can be prolonged (in Germany) and I think it's also the case in Norway. Still, chances are he gets out after these years.
I still remember the day he killed those kids and the bomb exploded in Oslo. I was pretty shocked since a good friend of mine lives there, but she was alright.
I also read about the trial almost every day...this guy sure has some sick and twisted ideas. Gives me the creeps how he is not even sorry but thinks it was the right thing to do.

This post has been edited by Gitarrero: Aug 28 2012, 05:13 PM


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Sollesnes
post Aug 28 2012, 05:36 PM
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22 years, with a minimum of 10 years. As long as he is considered a danger to society, his sentence can be prolonged with 5 years at a time.
Don't put people in jail for revenge, put people in jail for rehabilitation. If he somehow gets rehabilitated, there would be no reason to keep him behind bars, other than for his own protection. The chance for him to change his willingess to go through with actions such as these, in order to force through a belief such as his, is however rather slim... We'll see in 22 years.

About the death penalty... while a lot of people, naturally, would like to see him dead, the government should not be one to enforce some kind of revenge-policy on behalf of the victims. USA and Japan are the only 'modern' countries with death penalties, and neither are known for humanitarian legal systems.

This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Aug 28 2012, 05:46 PM
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AK Rich
post Aug 29 2012, 01:58 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 27 2012, 07:39 PM) *
I was a bit shocked to hear that the psycho nut job in Norlway that killed 69 kids on an island camping spot was sentenced to 22 years in jail. Thats about 100 days per murder.

THATS JUST CRAZY

IHe would have gotten the chair or the needle for that crap in the states.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19365616

I don't know man ,22 years doesn't really sound like justice to me, then again hanging is probably too good for him.
Maybe he could be put into a situation where he is the prey instead of the predator, and his odds of survival the same as those kids he gunned down as if they were vermin.
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Opossum
post Aug 29 2012, 03:11 AM
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If one of those kids had been one of my kids, I'd be hoping for him to get out in 21 years. I could possibly forgive a drunk driver or something along those lines, but that kind of monster - no way. Blood would spill.
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Alex Feather
post Aug 29 2012, 03:43 AM
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Yeah! I have seen it.... Also saw his prison and cell where he will be staying! Looks like a hotel! It is crazy!


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 29 2012, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 28 2012, 04:18 AM) *
True Todd, true. Although for 22 yrs, read 'for the rest of his life'. Although I believe that death is sometimes too easy a way out sometimes, they should live with what they did.. but then it's no real punishment if they don't have a conscience to rot in a cell with.


He's not that old, he's only in his early 30s. So in 22 years he can get out and have plenty of life left. He will be in his 50s when he's done serving. Seems pretty light doesn't it?

QUOTE (korblitz @ Aug 28 2012, 04:21 AM) *
Sorry, but how the hell did he kill 69 kids?


He bought some guns, went to a small island where they had a youth camp and shot a bunch of kids.

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 28 2012, 04:30 AM) *
I believe that 22 years is the maximum sentence in Norway and so under there legal system just.

So 17 innocent men served 20 or so years each for a crime they did not commit. One died in prison. If the UK had a death penalty all 17 would quite likely have been sentenced to death.


Well this isn't a wrongful conviction case by any stretch right? he admitted his guilt. So honestly, he deserves the chair put on slow burn IMHO.


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Ben Higgins
post Aug 29 2012, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (Sollesnes @ Aug 28 2012, 05:36 PM) *
Don't put people in jail for revenge, put people in jail for rehabilitation. If he somehow gets rehabilitated, there would be no reason to keep him behind bars, other than for his own protection.


That would be ideal wouldn't it ? Although if we look at the prison system how it currently is, there's no incentive for prisoners to change their ways at all, so hoping a mass murderer will be rehabilitated is a bit far fetched and being 'politically correct' just for the sake of it.

And I wouldn't say they're being put behind bars for revenge, we were just discussing the natural human emotions that follow something like that. They're put behind bars for much more logical reasons than that.


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Slavenko Erazer
post Aug 29 2012, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 29 2012, 07:38 AM) *
That would be ideal wouldn't it ? Although if we look at the prison system how it currently is, there's no incentive for prisoners to change their ways at all, so hoping a mass murderer will be rehabilitated is a bit far fetched and being 'politically correct' just for the sake of it.

And I wouldn't say they're being put behind bars for revenge, we were just discussing the natural human emotions that follow something like that. They're put behind bars for much more logical reasons than that.



I agree on this Ben. In most of the ways psycho remains psycho!! I hope they'll double the sentence!!
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Sollesnes
post Aug 29 2012, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 29 2012, 09:38 AM) *
That would be ideal wouldn't it ? Although if we look at the prison system how it currently is, there's no incentive for prisoners to change their ways at all, so hoping a mass murderer will be rehabilitated is a bit far fetched and being 'politically correct' just for the sake of it.


In Norway, people does. I do of course agree that the prisons are too nice here.. for example, it is easier to get a law degree in prison than outside of it, because you need really good grades to get into law school, while in prison you are allowed to get the degree you want.
But again, as I said, the chance for this guy to change is close to none, because it was politically motivated, and because of that, he does in practice have a life-long sentence.

This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Aug 29 2012, 08:58 AM
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 29 2012, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 29 2012, 07:14 AM) *
...
Well this isn't a wrongful conviction case by any stretch right? he admitted his guilt. So honestly, he deserves the chair put on slow burn IMHO.


It was a generalisation as to why I don't agree with the death penalty.

I'd agree with Sollesnes as well that in modern European society the judicial system is supposed to be about rehabilitation rather than retribution. Retribution would also make a martyr of him to those who agree with his ideology. That is almost certainly behind his wanting to be found guilty rather than insane as the latter undermines his desire to be a 'hero'.

We also need to try to understand what causes his ideology, both speicifically for him as an individual and more generally in society, and to then challenge and change it. Heal the cause rather than react to the symptom.

Whether or not he can be rehabiliitated - hopefully he can. I know someone who used to be a violent neo-nazi and who was jailed for racist violence. He changed his views and ideologiy whilst inside. On one occassion before he went to jail he and a few of his neo-nazi friends attacked me and a few of my friends. One of my friends was blinded in one eye during the attack. My friend has forgiven the guy and says he's rehabilitated, so there is hope.



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Todd Simpson
post Aug 30 2012, 09:42 PM
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Rehabilitation? After this guy BUTCHERED 69 CHILDRED IN COLD BLOOD? I"m sorry, but honestly, anyone that far gone is a lost cause.

And he gets a THREE BEDROOM SUITE! his prison cell is nicer than my apartment. And FREE HEALTH CARE/DENTAL! And, after his sentence they might hold him, but they also might let him go, so sorry but NO it's not a "Life Sentence" unless they sentence him with life without paroll. sad.gif

Seems like a slap on the wrist to be honest. We are not talking about skinheads beating people up here guys. This was the cold blooded murder of children.

If anyone on earth, ever deserved the death penalty it's this guy. But to put him in a 3 bedroom condo on tax payer benefits for two decades instead? That's just crazy.


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