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> Direct Box For Recording?
Todd Simpson
post Sep 3 2012, 06:36 AM
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Special thanks to SLAVENKO for pointing out this new DIRECT BOX to me. These are about 40 euro and just came out from Behringer. They make less expensive yet functional gear. It's not high end but it's not pricey either.

Some folks tell me that when they are trying to use Amplitude or Guitar Rig that they can't get enough signal in to their system without compromising tone/hiss etc.

The way I get around this (A MILLION WAYS TO SKIN A CAT FOLKS) is by using a direct box. The box puts 20 db of gain on the signal so I can use a fader on my mixing board to pull down the level instead of pushing it up and it helps me a lot. IT's not for everyone or everything and it is NOT A TUBE INTERFACE but it's cheap and more than up to home recording and can help cure some common issues.

Disclaimers finally over whew!

Anyhoo, here is the link and info. This thing is not only a direct box but also does AMP EMULATION. It's NOT A RECORDING INTERFACE it's a DIRECT BOX (Google is your friend) but in short it does not have USB/firewire, it's just something that goes in the signal chain before your recording interface.

Secondary disclaimers over whew! ( I can almost read responses to posts in my head as I write the initial post these days, thus the disclaimers to just save having to repost in response to expected responses)

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/GDI21.aspx

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Slavenko Erazer
post Sep 3 2012, 09:18 AM
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Ur welcome Todd'

As u probably know this Behringer GDI 21 is direct copy of (a lot expensiver) Tech 21 Sansamp Gt2 (which freaking Rawwwks)



I have read divided opinions regarding this GDI 21 - some folks like it, some not!
If somebody uses this thingy, feel free to write a bit about it wink.gif

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Todd Simpson
post Sep 3 2012, 10:22 AM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Sep 3 2012, 04:18 AM) *
Ur welcome Todd'

As u probably know this Behringer GDI 21 is direct copy of (a lot expensiver) Tech 21 Sansamp Gt2 (which freaking Rawwwks)



I have read divided opinions regarding this GDI 21 - some folks like it, some not!
If somebody uses this thingy, feel free to write a bit about it wink.gif


I didn't realize it was a copy but it makes sense now smile.gif Those sansamp boxes are AMAZING. But they are a bit pricier!


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 3 2012, 12:14 PM
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QUICK AND DIRTY RECORDING TERMS:



AUDIO INTERFACE (Often called an "External Sound Card"

-Typically, these are external little boxes, some look like mixers. Some have one input, some have many. Most connect via USB, firewire etc. Some Audio Interfaces require internal PCI cards as well as external expansion boxes. Pro Tools rigs at the high end are a good example. They have internal "daughter cards" and external Input output boxes. But for most folks, recording at home, on a budget. you are looking at a USB/Firewire connected box with one ore more inputs.

The scarlett is a good example. I know that language itself is sometimes a barrier and that there is a lot of info to track here. So I thought it might help to spell this out a bit?

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Just so we can establish a reference really.


Now if you want to record directly in to your laptop (most of GMC students I"ve spoken with tend to record on laptops but certainly not all. Some use Towers. Most use PC's but some use Macs.) You typically have a MIC LEVEL INPUT that looks like a small headphone jack. MIC LEVEL inputs are different than LINE LEVEL inputs. Here is a

GREART ARTICLE ON WHAT THE HECK THE DIFFERENCE IS!!!!!
http://recordmixandmaster.com/2010-02-mic-...-the-difference

But either way, if you use some sort of adapter, and plug your guitar, or a microphone, or the output of a pedal/amp/rack gear etc. directly in to your laptop/pc, you are "Recording Direct". This can often sound quite bad unless you take some steps. As you are bypassing a speaker cab, you usually have to fake it. Either with speaker emulation of some type, or in software.

BACK TO THE DIRECT BOX

If you are recording directly in to your machine, the DI BOX alone, probably isn't worth doing IMHO. But if you are going to use some sort of hardware emulation (LIKE THE SPIFFY BEHRINGER DI WITH EMULATION) you may be able to skip the amplitude plugins altogether if you like. This box acts like an amp/speaker etc. It's more about being a SANSAMP type unit than about being an direct box when used like this.



So then we have

HARDWARE EMULATION
-LIke the SANSAMP, or this new BEHRINGER DI, that let you sound like you are playing through a full amp/rig, without needing one. You can record direct to computer, or use an audio interface.

SOFTWARE EMULATION
-Like Amplitude and such. These let you plug either direclty in or through an audio interface and sound like a full amp/rig without needing one using software running in your computer.

RECORDING AN ACTUAL AMP
-Here is where new recordists run in to trouble. They may take the headphone output, or line output of their fav practice amp/stack etc. and run that in to their computer/laptop or in to their audio interface. The results can be quite crap.
Unless the amp has 'speaker simulation" the signal isn't going to sound right as it's not getting "speaker color" it's not going through a speaker.

*The best way to record a real, live, honest to God amp. Is with a real, live honest to Microphone. Usually an SM57 is a good place to start, but in a pinch whatever you have can work. Louder is often better (to a point) and recording loud guitars at home has all sorts of problems. Not the least of which is lack of isolation (unless you put your stack in the living room and have your mix position in the bedroom) and neighbors. Bringing us back to emulation.


FULL CIRCLE!

Hopefully this lays it out in basic terms and gets you over some of the initial problems / issues of being a new home recordist. It's frustrating at first. Just like playing guitar. But it gets way better the more you do it. And it's no good in a vacuum. So share your recordings and be open to criticism. Also, taking criticism well requires practice. Take in everything, absorb what is useful - Bruce Lee


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I'm going to put this in my recording thread. It got HUGE!


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Sep 3 2012, 12:15 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 3 2012, 01:48 PM
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Cool equipment here Todd. Another variation to the Behringer one could be the Pandora emulators by korg (Am I right?) and talking about audio interfaces, my favorite in the lower range price are the M-audio Fast track. Are this Focusrite better?

the new fast track model looks great! biggrin.gif

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Todd Simpson
post Sep 4 2012, 05:32 AM
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Hard to say they are "better" or not, so many variables (money/who's using it and for what, etc.). Those little M audio fast track units are just KILLER! And they work well with PRO TOOLS LE if pro tools is what one is looking to setup.

BIT OF NEWS!

AVID (owns pro tools) JUST SOLD M-AUDIO!!!!

So the future of maudio products is a bit up in the air more so than before I think. I'm sure they will keep making great products and such. They just won't be directly connected to Avid / Pro Tools like they used to be.

The FOCUSRITE stuff is pretty spiff all around and they usually have nice pre-amps built right in. Some vendors scrimp on the preamps in one piece units. But you can always buy an external pre amp which folks often do.

WHY? Did Avid sell of it's entire consumer division? MONEY! Avid admitted in the press that the profit margins in prosumer/consumer gear were 10 percent lower than their high end stuff on average so they said skip that! Now AVID is going back to high end only. Just too much competition, and too little profit. Same reason APPLE is abandoning prosumer stuff.


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 3 2012, 08:48 AM) *
Cool equipment here Todd. Another variation to the Behringer one could be the Pandora emulators by korg (Am I right?) and talking about audio interfaces, my favorite in the lower range price are the M-audio Fast track. Are this Focusrite better?

the new fast track model looks great! biggrin.gif

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Max Sokolov
post Sep 4 2012, 05:46 AM
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I use instrumental inputs with gain controls on my TC Electronic Impact Twin for this purposes, but direct box is a great way too!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 4 2012, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 4 2012, 01:32 AM) *
Hard to say they are "better" or not, so many variables (money/who's using it and for what, etc.). Those little M audio fast track units are just KILLER! And they work well with PRO TOOLS LE if pro tools is what one is looking to setup.

BIT OF NEWS!

AVID (owns pro tools) JUST SOLD M-AUDIO!!!!

So the future of maudio products is a bit up in the air more so than before I think. I'm sure they will keep making great products and such. They just won't be directly connected to Avid / Pro Tools like they used to be.

The FOCUSRITE stuff is pretty spiff all around and they usually have nice pre-amps built right in. Some vendors scrimp on the preamps in one piece units. But you can always buy an external pre amp which folks often do.

WHY? Did Avid sell of it's entire consumer division? MONEY! Avid admitted in the press that the profit margins in prosumer/consumer gear were 10 percent lower than their high end stuff on average so they said skip that! Now AVID is going back to high end only. Just too much competition, and too little profit. Same reason APPLE is abandoning prosumer stuff.



Wou! This are very interesting news mate. I has been always amazed by how cheap the m-audio fast track interfaces were in the USA so I can really understand the reasons why Avid decided to sell m-audio part. I always find that the relation quality/price of m-audio was really good, and I have never been into Pro Tools, however I feel that Focusrite has more status... maybe it's because they also have some high end preamps.


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 5 2012, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 4 2012, 09:28 AM) *
Wou! This are very interesting news mate. I has been always amazed by how cheap the m-audio fast track interfaces were in the USA so I can really understand the reasons why Avid decided to sell m-audio part. I always find that the relation quality/price of m-audio was really good, and I have never been into Pro Tools, however I feel that Focusrite has more status... maybe it's because they also have some high end preamps.


FOCUSRITE have a higher end reputation generally than M-Audio but I"ve always been happy with my M_Audio gear. Always sounds good and at a good price.

The company that owns AKAI has bought M-Audio. SO the connection of M-Audio to higher end stuff, is going to be severed and Avid will focus on really expensive systems that require additional hardware. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Hopefully AKAI and MAUDIO will come up with great stuff that will be cheap!


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 7 2012, 10:44 AM
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Focusrite often use the preamps from some of their mid range proaudio preamps in their prosumer range and so they're of a better quality then what you find in most prosumer stuff.

Interesting decision by Avid. They originally had M-Audio as a means to market PT to the prosumer/project studio end. The original idea was that PTHD new stuff filtered down to the PTLite and M-Audio after a couple of generations, which helped to spread development costs and increase market share. Guess they now intend to focus on PTHD.

Still it seems a bit odd to me as most pro end recording/mixing and post studios that want PTHD already have it so would only be in the market for the occassional upgrade. They get some new pro end studios users each year but I wouldn't have thought that it was that many. (Mastering studios don't tend to use PTHD as it's not high end enough smile.gif but Avid aren't bothered as we're a very small market niche .) I do know a few PTHD studios though who were unhappy as they thought the M-Audio 'cheapened' the product by association.

Avid though are good at marketing. They originally supplied PT to a couple of high profile pro studios in the USA for free way back. Many other US studios which were unsure how to go digital then bought PT assuming that PT had to be the best around. (They pretty much ignored Europe, which allowed Steinberg to build it's user base.) Over the years Avid have locked users in to the PTHD platform by integrating the hardware and software to a high degree.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 7 2012, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 7 2012, 06:44 AM) *
Focusrite often use the preamps from some of their mid range proaudio preamps in their prosumer range and so they're of a better quality then what you find in most prosumer stuff.

Interesting decision by Avid. They originally had M-Audio as a means to market PT to the prosumer/project studio end. The original idea was that PTHD new stuff filtered down to the PTLite and M-Audio after a couple of generations, which helped to spread development costs and increase market share. Guess they now intend to focus on PTHD.

Still it seems a bit odd to me as most pro end recording/mixing and post studios that want PTHD already have it so would only be in the market for the occassional upgrade. They get some new pro end studios users each year but I wouldn't have thought that it was that many. (Mastering studios don't tend to use PTHD as it's not high end enough smile.gif but Avid aren't bothered as we're a very small market niche .) I do know a few PTHD studios though who were unhappy as they thought the M-Audio 'cheapened' the product by association.

Avid though are good at marketing. They originally supplied PT to a couple of high profile pro studios in the USA for free way back. Many other US studios which were unsure how to go digital then bought PT assuming that PT had to be the best around. (They pretty much ignored Europe, which allowed Steinberg to build it's user base.) Over the years Avid have locked users in to the PTHD platform by integrating the hardware and software to a high degree.


Great info mate! I was wondering now which use interface is the best one among the smaller ones (like fast track)... there are many ones from brands like m-audio, presonus, focustire, lexicon, avid (mbox), motu, etc...



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Todd Simpson
post Sep 12 2012, 02:13 AM
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They are basically going to sell off all of the "transitional" prosumer/mid range stuff and focus on high end builds in Avid systems and Pro Tools systems and integration. So more focus on major facilities, new orgs, sports orgs, etc. According to their own press the margins in prosumer are 10 percent on average under Pro so they are going to streamline to service the pro end.

Follows a shift we are seeing elsewhere IMHO, e.g. Apple deciding to take Final Cut Pro (which was finally overtaking Avid in user base) and turn it in to iMovie Pro and refuse to release a Pro level tower in almost three years. Not to mention moving laptops toward the ipad model of everything soldered in at the factory.

These are very different things with similar outcome. The main market segment being cut out by both companies is the higher end prosumer/lower end pro. So the consumer level gets a boost (imovie pro for apple, Maudio gets to do it's own thing to make consumers happy) and the Pro user gets more focus from Avid/Pro Tools. But it seems the margins have gotten so squeezed that a big chunk of the middle ground prosumer area has sorta been left to swing in the breeze.

Of course, I can see many counter arguments depending on ones view. This one just happens to be mine. I'm involved in purchasing gear/software at an enterprise level and planning for production needs when apple gave up on FCP threw many folks in to a quandry. Do you go Premiere? Solid, but still not considered to be on the level of Final Cut Pro 7, do you go back to Avid? Many folks would rather be shot that get back on that wagon and be beholden to crazy pricing structures and proprietary everything.

So sort of a holding pattern. I deployed 100 workstations with iMovie Pro (FCP X) and Premiere. Let the users decide. smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 7 2012, 05:44 AM) *
Focusrite often use the preamps from some of their mid range proaudio preamps in their prosumer range and so they're of a better quality then what you find in most prosumer stuff.

Interesting decision by Avid. They originally had M-Audio as a means to market PT to the prosumer/project studio end. The original idea was that PTHD new stuff filtered down to the PTLite and M-Audio after a couple of generations, which helped to spread development costs and increase market share. Guess they now intend to focus on PTHD.

Still it seems a bit odd to me as most pro end recording/mixing and post studios that want PTHD already have it so would only be in the market for the occassional upgrade. They get some new pro end studios users each year but I wouldn't have thought that it was that many. (Mastering studios don't tend to use PTHD as it's not high end enough smile.gif but Avid aren't bothered as we're a very small market niche .) I do know a few PTHD studios though who were unhappy as they thought the M-Audio 'cheapened' the product by association.

Avid though are good at marketing. They originally supplied PT to a couple of high profile pro studios in the USA for free way back. Many other US studios which were unsure how to go digital then bought PT assuming that PT had to be the best around. (They pretty much ignored Europe, which allowed Steinberg to build it's user base.) Over the years Avid have locked users in to the PTHD platform by integrating the hardware and software to a high degree.



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 12 2012, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 12 2012, 02:13 AM) *
...

So sort of a holding pattern. I deployed 100 workstations with iMovie Pro (FCP X) and Premiere. Let the users decide. smile.gif

Todd


Yep - and I definately agree that the middlemarket is going to be squeezed. Seems a bit rash as some of that middle represents future professional users who now may well be ticked off at being dumped.

I also wonder if Avid really understand how much convertors have improved since they launched Accel HD384.

I'm going to buy a big box of popcorn and settle back to watch it unfold biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 12 2012, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 12 2012, 06:02 AM) *
Yep - and I definately agree that the middlemarket is going to be squeezed. Seems a bit rash as some of that middle represents future professional users who now may well be ticked off at being dumped.

I also wonder if Avid really understand how much convertors have improved since they launched Accel HD384.

I'm going to buy a big box of popcorn and settle back to watch it unfold biggrin.gif


I'll join ya wink.gif It honestly seems like avid is sorta shooting themselves in the foot by removing the "gateway drug" versions of AVid/Pro Tools, but hey, dems da breaks. So we will just have to see what the heck happens moving forward. I'm guessing it will get tricky before it gets smooth but it will eventually find some stable ground. I hope. smile.gif"

Todd


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Slavenko Erazer
post Jul 22 2013, 08:32 PM
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I've bought this little piece of gear Behringer GDI 21, almost whole year after we opened a thread about it ! cool.gif
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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 22 2013, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Jul 22 2013, 09:32 PM) *
I've bought this little piece of gear Behringer GDI 21, almost whole year after we opened a thread about it ! cool.gif


Congrats! That is a very cool piece of gear. I played with the bass version of it which is also a copy of a famous tech 21 sansamp pedal and it works really well (+ the price is amazing). I couldn't find it in stores to buy though and I ended up with a different DI unit - Markbass Super Booster which works well for my purpose. Though behringer DI would come in handy for band rehearsals where we don't use amps, rather go straight to the board as it has a preamp with basic eq.


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Darius Wave
post Jul 23 2013, 12:32 AM
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I was testin GDI for some time and with respect to any Behringer haters...this really worked fine. Also had sans amp for quite some time.


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David.C.Bond
post Jul 23 2013, 10:38 PM
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Heard good things about these. Seems like a good solution for a first recording setup smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 23 2013, 11:42 PM
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Reocrd some sound samples!! Let us hear how it sounds smile.gif

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Jul 22 2013, 03:32 PM) *
I've bought this little piece of gear Behringer GDI 21, almost whole year after we opened a thread about it ! cool.gif



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Slavenko Erazer
post Jul 24 2013, 08:50 AM
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Here's my take for thrash metal collab, i've recorded it with CALIF (Messa Boogie sim) with High Gain MOD and MIC clasic position.
Must say that it sounds damn good for 20$ (how much i've paid for it) smile.gif


https://soundcloud.com/slavenko/totalthrashwback

This post has been edited by Slavenko Erazer: Jul 25 2013, 10:56 PM
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