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eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Sep 14 2012, 02:00 AM
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Hey guys, Isiah here. I new to recording and mixing my own songs so I'm hoping there's someone here that can help me. When I record a song I usually just pan the rythmn 100% left, then another one 100% right, then, I just leave the lead in the middle. How would you pan the tracks if you want it to blend in perfectly with mutiple guitars that are playing melody? Can you list some ways that you think would work when mixing my songs? I really need the help!! Thanks for your help, btw too....


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Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 16 2012, 11:30 PM
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Very interesting question - I would like to know about this as well since I'll be mixing some guitars soon.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 17 2012, 07:46 AM
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Hey man, I for one always pan the riff guitars (and every guitar that is doubled) then add a little compression, some reverb if I am playing clean chords.

For the leads, I sometimes pan them too if I want it and add reverb or delay. I have tried and tested until I got the result I wanted, that's how things go for me smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 17 2012, 08:00 AM
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This largely depends on the actual audio project and what you are trying to achieve with the mix. Panning and placement is part of balancing and as such everything is relative to the individual tracks, which is the focal track and how you want to make use of the stereo field.

Having said there are some generalisations that you can make:

1/ some mix engineers use 100/100, some however do not pan quite as much and use 80-90% L/R. Whatever you do pay attention how you set he panning law of your daw.
2/ if you pan rhythym to L/R with the lead in the centre you may well end up with what can be termed a 'W' stereo mix. i.e. your mix has audio far L/R and in the middle but nothing/very little between these points. Many engineers will try to make more use of the stereo field and place other parts/instruments in to those 'gaps'. Note though that a 'W' may atually work for some projects - it's depends entirely on your mix and what you are trying to achieve.
3/ The L/R wall of sound is not the only to mix and pan rhythym. In some instances it may actually not be good as it can swallow a lot of sonic space and so make it more difficult to place and balance other tracks.
4/ Any L/R like this needs a collapse to mono check or you may well find that you lose instruments on a mono playback. (And the vast majority of music is listened to in mono or at best quasi-stereo.)


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 17 2012, 08:13 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 17 2012, 07:00 AM) *
This largely depends on the actual audio project and what you are trying to achieve with the mix. Panning and placement is part of balancing and as such everything is relative to the individual tracks, which is the focal track and how you want to make use of the stereo field.

Having said there are some generalisations that you can make:

1/ some mix engineers use 100/100, some however do not pan quite as much and use 80-90% L/R. Whatever you do pay attention how you set he panning law of your daw.
2/ if you pan rhythym to L/R with the lead in the centre you may well end up with what can be termed a 'W' stereo mix. i.e. your mix has audio far L/R and in the middle but nothing/very little between these points. Many engineers will try to make more use of the stereo field and place other parts/instruments in to those 'gaps'. Note though that a 'W' may atually work for some projects - it's depends entirely on your mix and what you are trying to achieve.
3/ The L/R wall of sound is not the only to mix and pan rhythym. In some instances it may actually not be good as it can swallow a lot of sonic space and so make it more difficult to place and balance other tracks.
4/ Any L/R like this needs a collapse to mono check or you may well find that you lose instruments on a mono playback. (And the vast majority of music is listened to in mono or at best quasi-stereo.)


It's clear that Tony's input on this aspect is beneficial for everyone, so I'll just stick around and read! biggrin.gif Thanks Tony!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 17 2012, 05:11 PM
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Interesting thread! Thanks Tony for the cool entry! I use to pan around 65/65 when I have two takes of the rhythm guitar and I want a powerful sound. If I have a guitar arrangement, I pan it to one of the sides. If I feel that the mix is unbalanced, I use to lower the volume of the rhythm guitar in the arrangement side to compensate it.
However, every project is different and it also depends on your taste. I suggest you to listen to music with headphones and pay attention how your favorite tracks are mixed.


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Ben Higgins
post Sep 17 2012, 06:52 PM
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I used to pan 100% L & R but then I started bringing them into about 70% either way. However I went back to full L & R because I felt like my guitars became a little more distant otherwise.

If you've got 1 main lead track then I would go for dead centre. However if you've got multiple solos backing onto each other like a Cacophony or Judas Priest situation then it might be cooler to pan them about 45 or 50 % L & R so there's still some contrast between the two but they're not fighting with the rhythm guitars.

Slightly off topic but on Judas Priest's album, Painkiller, I noticed that the panning of rhythm and lead guitars is quite dynamic with a rhythm channel being mixed down (or cut out) to be replaced by a solo. I guess it was to replicate the effect of them playing live. It's interesting. I noticed it only when I started listening to it in the car ! smile.gif


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VilleFIN
post Sep 17 2012, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 17 2012, 08:52 PM) *
.

Slightly off topic but on Judas Priest's album, Painkiller, I noticed that the panning of rhythm and lead guitars is quite dynamic with a rhythm channel being mixed down (or cut out) to be replaced by a solo. I guess it was to replicate the effect of them playing live. It's interesting. I noticed it only when I started listening to it in the car ! smile.gif

That's exactly what I have been thinking to do next !!
Usually I have panned 100L/100R and doubled solo maybe 45/45.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 18 2012, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE (WeePee @ Sep 17 2012, 06:20 PM) *
That's exactly what I have been thinking to do next !!
Usually I have panned 100L/100R and doubled solo maybe 45/45.


Very interesting biggrin.gif I think it's indeed a method to replicate the live sound.

I like studiowork when it provides more complex options, so if you want to see musical craziness at its best, check out Devin Townsed's records smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 18 2012, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 17 2012, 06:52 PM) *
...

Slightly off topic but on Judas Priest's album, Painkiller, I noticed that the panning of rhythm and lead guitars is quite dynamic with a rhythm channel being mixed down (or cut out) to be replaced by a solo. I guess it was to replicate the effect of them playing live. It's interesting. I noticed it only when I started listening to it in the car ! smile.gif


It also helps to keep sonic space in the mix and so reduce masking. Automation can be fun here. I wrote stuff on this in the 'how to get a commercial mix' series smile.gif. Another thing that is helpful is to x-fade the mix for the start of a solo (or something you want to emphasise like a lead vox line/phrase) so that the level drops quickly before the start and recovers when it starts. You can often make the solo pop up that way.


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Ben Higgins
post Sep 18 2012, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 18 2012, 11:20 AM) *
It also helps to keep sonic space in the mix and so reduce masking. Automation can be fun here. I wrote stuff on this in the 'how to get a commercial mix' series smile.gif. Another thing that is helpful is to x-fade the mix for the start of a solo (or something you want to emphasise like a lead vox line/phrase) so that the level drops quickly before the start and recovers when it starts. You can often make the solo pop up that way.


Yes, I just know it would blow our minds if we were truly aware of all the level manipulations that occur in songs without us knowing smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 19 2012, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 18 2012, 07:59 PM) *
Yes, I just know it would blow our minds if we were truly aware of all the level manipulations that occur in songs without us knowing smile.gif


I want to know everything laugh.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 19 2012, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 18 2012, 07:59 PM) *
Yes, I just know it would blow our minds if we were truly aware of all the level manipulations that occur in songs without us knowing smile.gif


A lot of home/project studios don't use automation, regions, libraries, comps and edl sufficiently. I kind of assume home/project studios don't use it much because it's a technique that most are just not aware of. Automation is very powerful when it's used well and the extent to which automation is used and how are often a significant difference between home/project and many professional mixes, Autechre, for instance, use automation a lot. If you ever get the chance they're worth looking at.


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Ben Higgins
post Sep 19 2012, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 19 2012, 08:59 AM) *
A lot of home/project studios don't use automation, regions, libraries, comps and edl sufficiently. I kind of assume home/project studios don't use it much because it's a technique that most are just not aware of. Automation is very powerful when it's used well and the extent to which automation is used and how are often a significant difference between home/project and many professional mixes, Autechre, for instance, use automation a lot. If you ever get the chance they're worth looking at.


I remember you saying about how many automation fades and edits were in a 3 min pop song once.. just incredible !!

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 19 2012, 08:18 AM) *
I want to know everything laugh.gif


Me too ! We are the knowledge feeders !!!! laugh.gif


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