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> Unnecessary Solos
Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 7 2012, 04:51 PM
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A post by Btrian that said:

"and the solo on the last vid did just about nothing to me especially the middle part, feels more like "hey there is no solo in that song yet, let's put some fast noodling in and we're done"

I found this thinking very clever and interesting to discuss... what do you think about this? Are there some songs or artist that you know and seems to do??


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Ben Higgins
post Nov 7 2012, 08:11 PM
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Hey Gab, I'm not sure I understand the question.. are you asking us to think of bands that put unnecessary solos in their music or bands that avoid putting unnecessary solos in their music ?

In terms of unnecessary solos.. probably every metal band that ever existed is guilty of doing this at some point. I definitely think Megadeth have been putting way too much busy, widdling solos in their music since United Abominations and especially on Endgame. I'm a guitarist but even I think it's stupidly overkill, like they're trying to prove a point. Doesn't matter how many notes they put in, they're never gonna erase Poland and Friedman wink.gif

In terms of bands that avoid unnecessary solos I would nominate Opeth.


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 7 2012, 08:52 PM
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Well said! Pretty much every Metal band can be painted with this brush to at least some extent on some tracks. And MEGADETH in particular has been trying to overcompensate for the loss of Poland then Friedman. Nothing against the new guy in Megadeth as he is a fine player. Technically he is truly astounding. Sadly, a tad predictable IMHO. Chris Poland on the other hand, I never knew where he was going in a solo til I heard him play the whole thing then I'd have to go back and make sure what the heck I just heard. Friedman managed to have the same impact on me but comes from an entirely different direction musically.

Todd


QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 7 2012, 02:11 PM) *
Hey Gab, I'm not sure I understand the question.. are you asking us to think of bands that put unnecessary solos in their music or bands that avoid putting unnecessary solos in their music ?

In terms of unnecessary solos.. probably every metal band that ever existed is guilty of doing this at some point. I definitely think Megadeth have been putting way too much busy, widdling solos in their music since United Abominations and especially on Endgame. I'm a guitarist but even I think it's stupidly overkill, like they're trying to prove a point. Doesn't matter how many notes they put in, they're never gonna erase Poland and Friedman wink.gif

In terms of bands that avoid unnecessary solos I would nominate Opeth.



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TeoWulf
post Nov 7 2012, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 7 2012, 08:11 PM) *
Hey Gab, I'm not sure I understand the question.. are you asking us to think of bands that put unnecessary solos in their music or bands that avoid putting unnecessary solos in their music ?

In terms of unnecessary solos.. probably every metal band that ever existed is guilty of doing this at some point. I definitely think Megadeth have been putting way too much busy, widdling solos in their music since United Abominations and especially on Endgame. I'm a guitarist but even I think it's stupidly overkill, like they're trying to prove a point. Doesn't matter how many notes they put in, they're never gonna erase Poland and Friedman wink.gif

In terms of bands that avoid unnecessary solos I would nominate Opeth.

I could write books about unnecessary solos...
Seriously, I hate it when somone does a solo just to show off his skills, or how fast he can play.
And as you said almost evrey band does that. People don't really recognize that solos are meant to give depth to the song, not to demonstrarte how bad ass you are. I came to hate most of the "progressive" bands because of their mindless-boring-fifteen minuites long solo blocks that just make no sense at all.

Happily, there are quite a lot of bands who tend to avoid unnecessary solos.
Blind Guardian, Dio, Iced Earth/though I still don't like them at all/, Demons and Wizards, Nightwish, Accept etc... and these are just the ones that came to my mind at the moment
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Ben Higgins
post Nov 7 2012, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 7 2012, 07:52 PM) *
Chris Poland on the other hand, I never knew where he was going in a solo til I heard him play the whole thing then I'd have to go back and make sure what the heck I just heard.


Totally. Nobody's ever come close to what Poland does ! smile.gif


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Slavenko Erazer
post Nov 7 2012, 10:54 PM
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Symphony X is the band that avoid noodling for sure, Romeo phrasing and solos are astonishing every note is exactly on it's place as it should be...
On the other hand there're loads of bands in Prog/Math metal music that use too much rooms for solos..

This post has been edited by Slavenko Erazer: Nov 7 2012, 10:55 PM
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 8 2012, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (TeoWulf @ Nov 7 2012, 05:09 PM) *
Happily, there are quite a lot of bands who tend to avoid unnecessary solos.
Blind Guardian, Dio, Iced Earth/though I still don't like them at all/, Demons and Wizards, Nightwish, Accept etc... and these are just the ones that came to my mind at the moment


This is a good list of bands that don't play unnecessary solos!


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SirJamsalot
post Nov 8 2012, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 7 2012, 12:35 PM) *
Totally. Nobody's ever come close to what Poland does ! smile.gif


I just watched a few vids of Chris Poland after reading this. He looks older than he should at 54. He doesn't use his little finger AT ALL. But those other 3 fingers are pretty durn fast smile.gif Trippin'


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BTrian
post Nov 8 2012, 12:33 AM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Nov 7 2012, 10:54 PM) *
Symphony X is the band that avoid noodling for sure, Romeo phrasing and solos are astonishing every note is exactly on it's place as it should be...
On the other hand there're loads of bands in Prog/Math metal music that use too much rooms for solos..



the entry quote was aimed at a symphony x song you posted biggrin.gif
whatever, I listened to this thing some more times and it didin't really change, starts quite nice but that scale running part just kills it for me.

I agree on the argument Solos shouldn't be an element just to show off skills.
A solo to me is some kind of song within a song.
I don't have a problem with some fast stuff being thrown in, but it should always lead somewhere and the solo should end up being sth memorable like the song itself. That scale running stuff in guitar/key lead or unision seems to be in most solos of more technical bands but it just gets boring really fast if it just feels thrown in instead of really being part of the whole thing.
Another Huge factor is the backing instrumentation.

one solo where this works for me would be this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN0kWlDSG0Q
(starting at 3:00 or sth)

big room for solos and such isn't a bad thing in general either if it doesn't feel like "yeah let's put a 15 min solo here"
it is just more likely that you don't enjoy parts of it the longer it is.

Just the same as with the epic song topic... some are at a point where you don't even notice that was 20 minutes, some others just feel thrown together and stretched.



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 8 2012, 12:52 AM
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I was also watching videos like this one... his finger are still very fast and his licks very unique.





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Ben Higgins
post Nov 8 2012, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Nov 7 2012, 11:31 PM) *
I just watched a few vids of Chris Poland after reading this. He looks older than he should at 54. He doesn't use his little finger AT ALL. But those other 3 fingers are pretty durn fast smile.gif Trippin'


Yeah that's what drug abuse can do to ya..

He cut his tendon when his brother pushed him through a plate glass window so his little finger sticks out at a weird angle and he can use it to fret notes a lot higher up than normal guitar players but you're right, he does tend to use the first 3 mainly. smile.gif

Re: Solos... I think a big contributing factor comes down to how melodic and interesting the chord progression is underneath. If the chords already sound good then you don't need to do a lot to outline a melody and make it sound good. If you got good chords you shouldn't ruin it with noodling.

If the backing only has one chord then that's where you have to get inventive tongue.gif


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BTrian
post Nov 8 2012, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 8 2012, 11:56 AM) *
Re: Solos... I think a big contributing factor comes down to how melodic and interesting the chord progression is underneath. If the chords already sound good then you don't need to do a lot to outline a melody and make it sound good.



so true

and that poland guy indeed does some insane stuff, interesting right hand thingy, too.
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waynedcoville
post Nov 8 2012, 02:36 PM
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I was once in a band with a guy who put solos whenever the singer wasn't singing. It got old quick. and to make it worse, no matter the tempo or feeling of the song, he would play these blazing fast solos. Its like he didn't understand the concept of SONG quality, only SOLO quantity. The band didn't last long, lol.

This post has been edited by waynedcoville: Nov 8 2012, 02:37 PM


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Ben Higgins
post Nov 8 2012, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (waynedcoville @ Nov 8 2012, 01:36 PM) *
I was once in a band with a guy who put solos whenever the singer wasn't singing. It got old quick. and to make it worse, no matter the tempo or feeling of the song, he would play these blazing fast solos. Its like he didn't understand the concept of SONG quality, only SOLO quantity. The band didn't last long, lol.


Oh man, he's annoyed me and I wasn't even there dry.gif

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Nov 8 2012, 03:20 PM


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DeGroot
post Nov 8 2012, 05:10 PM
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I do agree tasteful soloing in a song is more important. I like to hear something that will stick with you for a while after listening rather then just a total shred fest. Joe Satriani, Andy Timmons are good examples of both great melody and still having that top class technique. Having that whole package is probably harder to accomplish then just having amazing skill.

Though I admit, it is a guilty pleasure of mine to listen to wall to wall shred sometimes like, Rusty Cooley, George Bellas, etc. Too much of it though can sound redundant after a while.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 8 2012, 06:11 PM
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Well, my list would be huge ... sadly, I haven't heard any good solos that can stick to my mind lately.


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