Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Muddy Mixes!, Need help with mixing/mastering my songs.
eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Nov 26 2012, 04:12 AM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 23-May 11
From: U.S Virgin Islands
Member No.: 12.894



Hey, guys can you give me some tips on mixing and mastering my songs. My guitar tone is alright. It's a bit muddy in the mix, but I don't really know what to do. I'm not satisfied with my overall mix of the songs I do most of the time! Can you tell me what free plugins I can use or effects, and in which order if it makes a difference. I just need my songs to sound full, louder, and clear.
Thanks
IsiahDrew

Here's a song I'm working on with my current tone. Check it out and tell me what you think, these are the raw guitar tracks!
Attached File  _metalcore_song_rough_version.mp3 ( 11.31MB ) Number of downloads: 83


*If you have any suggestions please tell me, I really what to get good at making songs!

Like my Facebook fan page: https://www.facebook.com/IsiahDrewstx


--------------------
Follow me on Twitter
Visit My Website
Please like my Facebook page
Please Subscribe to my Youtube Channel




There's only room for improvement. Never give up on what you love!
#TheWorldisYours

-IsiahDrew
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Saoirse O'Shea
post Nov 26 2012, 09:45 AM
Post #2


Moderator - low level high stakes
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 6.173
Joined: 27-June 07
From: Espania - Cadiz province
Member No.: 2.194



Mud is usually down in the low mid in the 100-450 Hz range. You may need to attenuate the low mid; you may also be able to clear some of it up by moving instruments in the stereo panorama a bit. Also, if you are using a lot of processing and/or have lots of tracks you will likely get a build up so also think about the production.

You shouldn't need any additional vsts - you should already have eqs and you can pan tracks using the mixer.

I have to say that most mixes have issues in this area - usually too much mud. A major part of the issue is inadequate/poor monitors and placement.

I also have to say that you need to get the recording and mixing as good as you can before you think about mastering. So concentrate on learning how to record and
mix.


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Nov 26 2012, 10:35 AM
Post #3


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.425
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



Less distortion on the rhythm guitar parts and more layered Rhythm guitar tracks with some slight EQ changes and stereo placement

Can you give a list of your tracks you are working with

On the positive side of things, I listened to the whole thing, quite often I'll get bored and turn things off after 30 sec -1 min!

This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Nov 26 2012, 10:32 AM


--------------------
Currently Working on

PosterBoy's Modern Riffing with Gabriel

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Nov 26 2012, 11:31 AM
Post #4


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



It's great that you're trying to improve on this area, Isiah.. I admire anyone who wants to work on something and asks for help in doing so smile.gif

Tony is the man, he'll always tell it to you straight smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 27 2012, 05:38 PM
Post #5


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 28.427
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Tony said it perfectly! A Ben said... he is the man! Keep on experimenting! smile.gif


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Nov 28 2012, 01:05 AM
Post #6


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.124
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



I know you were probably wanting to hear something like

"THERE IS A FREE MAGIC VST THAT WILL FIX YOUR MIX!!!"

But in truth that would be a HUGE disservice to you. Being able to properly record and mix is something you can using the tools you already have in any modern DAW. The plugins that do what you are talkiing about (OZONE, EZMIX) are essentially just doing it for you without telling you what they are doing. Dont get me wrong these are fine plugins and have their place. But learning how to actually record and and mix using EQ, Compression, etc. is a base level, crucial skill that you will need to have in order to succeed on any level. So dig in to the EQ and Compressor and experiment. It takes time but it's worth it.


QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 26 2012, 03:45 AM) *
Mud is usually down in the low mid in the 100-450 Hz range. You may need to attenuate the low mid; you may also be able to clear some of it up by moving instruments in the stereo panorama a bit. Also, if you are using a lot of processing and/or have lots of tracks you will likely get a build up so also think about the production.

You shouldn't need any additional vsts - you should already have eqs and you can pan tracks using the mixer.

I have to say that most mixes have issues in this area - usually too much mud. A major part of the issue is inadequate/poor monitors and placement.

I also have to say that you need to get the recording and mixing as good as you can before you think about mastering. So concentrate on learning how to record and
mix.



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Nov 29 2012, 12:02 AM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 23-May 11
From: U.S Virgin Islands
Member No.: 12.894



I only used two tracks for the ryhtmn, they're panned 100% Left and Right. I don't really know much about frequencies so messing around with the EQ isn't going to help me, I think. I really don't have a clear understanding on where the bass, mids, and highs are.

For the equipment I use, I only use a zoom g1, shure sm-57, randall rx120rh and r412 cab, and the focusrite 2i2 audio interface, and reaper.
What effects are mainly used when mixing.. is it just compression and eq? I'm really new to this, so please bare with me.




--------------------
Follow me on Twitter
Visit My Website
Please like my Facebook page
Please Subscribe to my Youtube Channel




There's only room for improvement. Never give up on what you love!
#TheWorldisYours

-IsiahDrew
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Saoirse O'Shea
post Nov 29 2012, 11:48 AM
Post #8


Moderator - low level high stakes
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 6.173
Joined: 27-June 07
From: Espania - Cadiz province
Member No.: 2.194



Sorry for repeating myself - mud is in the low mid in the 100-500 Hz range. You need to use an eq on a wide bell to reduce this. Try centering it at @350 Hz, set a wide bell, and attenuate.

In mixing the two main types of processors are EQ and compressors, they are not the only processors used though in mixing but they are arguably the most important. Mixing however is really about balance the various tracks and so you also need to learn how to pan and set levels appropriately and how to gainstage. These, along with EQ and compression, are essential for getting a good mix and I wouldn't worry about other types of processing until you can nail these. Personally I wouldn't even attempt to master a track if you do not know how EQ and compression works as a minimum. Take a look at my previous threads on how to use EQs and compressors, sorry but you'll have to search around on the board for them.


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Nov 29 2012, 10:21 PM
Post #9


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 23-May 11
From: U.S Virgin Islands
Member No.: 12.894



Thank, but I'm found someone who can help me... and a guy on Youtube aswell: https://www.youtube.com/user/recordingrevolution


--------------------
Follow me on Twitter
Visit My Website
Please like my Facebook page
Please Subscribe to my Youtube Channel




There's only room for improvement. Never give up on what you love!
#TheWorldisYours

-IsiahDrew
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Nov 30 2012, 02:11 AM
Post #10


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.124
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Here is a chart that will hopefully give you some insight in to EQ/sound in general. It helped me wink.gif
Attached Image

I think you may be missing a bit of the point i"m trying to make on your mix/learning. What I"m saying is, this is your chance to learn more about EQ. Nobody is born knowing how to EQ a mix. You start moving the knobs around and it it helps you understand what they are doing. Imagine if you said "I don't know anything about guitar so I guess I just can't play". It's along that line with mixing/recording. Practice and experimentation are great ways to get your feet wet and learn. Once you mess with it, you'll actually develop questions. Then we can answer them smile.gif

Quick and dirty on EQ
Bass (Kick drum, bass drum, toms, bass guitar)
Mid (guitar, vocals)
High (high hats, cymbals and give crispness to other instruments)

This is vastly generalized but the basics are a good place to start. If you are having MUDDY mix issues. Pull out some mud. Meaning, pull back the bass on the guitar and bass guitar a bit. Thats a good place to start. Dig in!


Todd


QUOTE (eLeCtRoFrEaK0036 @ Nov 28 2012, 06:02 PM) *
I only used two tracks for the ryhtmn, they're panned 100% Left and Right. I don't really know much about frequencies so messing around with the EQ isn't going to help me, I think. I really don't have a clear understanding on where the bass, mids, and highs are.

For the equipment I use, I only use a zoom g1, shure sm-57, randall rx120rh and r412 cab, and the focusrite 2i2 audio interface, and reaper.
What effects are mainly used when mixing.. is it just compression and eq? I'm really new to this, so please bare with me.



TONI: Great advice but you are asumming here that he knows what a "WIDE BELL" even is sad.gif . As he mentioned, he knows pretty much zip on EQ so each term/lingo, is something he will need to either lookup, or get a link from us in the post for. Your info is SPOT ON of course. Its hard to remember sometimes what is and isn't "Lingo" when you use certain terms everyday. I run in to this in computer land all the time.



QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 29 2012, 05:48 AM) *
Sorry for repeating myself - mud is in the low mid in the 100-500 Hz range. You need to use an eq on a wide bell to reduce this. Try centering it at @350 Hz, set a wide bell, and attenuate.

In mixing the two main types of processors are EQ and compressors, they are not the only processors used though in mixing but they are arguably the most important. Mixing however is really about balance the various tracks and so you also need to learn how to pan and set levels appropriately and how to gainstage. These, along with EQ and compression, are essential for getting a good mix and I wouldn't worry about other types of processing until you can nail these. Personally I wouldn't even attempt to master a track if you do not know how EQ and compression works as a minimum. Take a look at my previous threads on how to use EQs and compressors, sorry but you'll have to search around on the board for them.



Great! Looks like you found some videos on EQ as well!!!

QUOTE (eLeCtRoFrEaK0036 @ Nov 29 2012, 04:21 PM) *
Thank, but I'm found someone who can help me... and a guy on Youtube aswell: https://www.youtube.com/user/recordingrevolution


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 30 2012, 02:13 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Nov 30 2012, 10:25 AM
Post #11


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 30 2012, 01:11 AM) *
Here is a chart that will hopefully give you some insight in to EQ/sound in general. It helped me wink.gif
Attached Image


Great pic, Todd.. thanks for sharing ! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Nov 30 2012, 10:25 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Nov 30 2012, 10:51 PM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 23-May 11
From: U.S Virgin Islands
Member No.: 12.894



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 30 2012, 01:11 AM) *
This is vastly generalized but the basics are a good place to start. If you are having MUDDY mix issues. Pull out some mud. Meaning, pull back the bass on the guitar and bass guitar a bit. Thats a good place to start. Dig in!

TONI: Great advice but you are asumming here that he knows what a "WIDE BELL" even is sad.gif . As he mentioned, he knows pretty much zip on EQ so each term/lingo, is something he will need to either lookup, or get a link from us in the post for. Your info is SPOT ON of course. Its hard to remember sometimes what is and isn't "Lingo" when you use certain terms everyday. I run in to this in computer land all the time.


Thanks for the picture Todd. I have a few VST's for EQ-ing, but which one do you suggest for a basic user like me who's just getting started?

AND NO... I don't have a clue what a "wide bell" is, but I'll look it up. Like I said, "I'm super new to this and I don't know what I'm doing!"


--------------------
Follow me on Twitter
Visit My Website
Please like my Facebook page
Please Subscribe to my Youtube Channel




There's only room for improvement. Never give up on what you love!
#TheWorldisYours

-IsiahDrew
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Dec 1 2012, 01:26 AM
Post #13


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.124
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Nobody knows what they are doing at first so it's totally ok. We are here to help smile.gif Depeending on your DAW, you may not even need a VST for EQ. Most have something built in. For example, REAPER!!! smile.gif

If you are using reaper you are in luck. If not, go download it smile.gif Here is a zip file that contains a REAPER Project. I've used one of the EQs built in to reaper to EQ a drum kit. You can turn it on and off to hear the difference. Click FX then un check the check box to turn the eq off. See if you can hear the difference.

Move the little dots around on the EQ when you have it up. Press play and keep moving them. See the impact that it has.

Let me know smile.gif

[attachment=29715:EQ.zip]

CREDITS: This is DOKUGANS drum track for the DIVINUS MORTUS Project.

Todd



QUOTE (eLeCtRoFrEaK0036 @ Nov 30 2012, 04:51 PM) *
Thanks for the picture Todd. I have a few VST's for EQ-ing, but which one do you suggest for a basic user like me who's just getting started?

AND NO... I don't have a clue what a "wide bell" is, but I'll look it up. Like I said, "I'm super new to this and I don't know what I'm doing!"



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Dec 1 2012, 11:44 AM
Post #14


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 23-May 11
From: U.S Virgin Islands
Member No.: 12.894



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 1 2012, 12:26 AM) *
Nobody knows what they are doing at first so it's totally ok. We are here to help smile.gif Depeending on your DAW, you may not even need a VST for EQ. Most have something built in. For example, REAPER!!! smile.gif

If you are using reaper you are in luck. If not, go download it smile.gif Here is a zip file that contains a REAPER Project. I've used one of the EQs built in to reaper to EQ a drum kit. You can turn it on and off to hear the difference. Click FX then un check the check box to turn the eq off. See if you can hear the difference.

Move the little dots around on the EQ when you have it up. Press play and keep moving them. See the impact that it has.

Let me know smile.gif

[attachment=29715:EQ.zip]

CREDITS: This is DOKUGANS drum track for the DIVINUS MORTUS Project.

Todd


I have Reaper already, but your attachment doesn't work... can you re-upload it or something? Or, you can always send it to my email: [email protected]


--------------------
Follow me on Twitter
Visit My Website
Please like my Facebook page
Please Subscribe to my Youtube Channel




There's only room for improvement. Never give up on what you love!
#TheWorldisYours

-IsiahDrew
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ConnorGilks
post Dec 1 2012, 09:31 PM
Post #15


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 230
Joined: 1-December 12
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Member No.: 17.078



First thing I do with my guitar tracks is roll off everything below 100Hz. Let's the bass and kick breath and brings a lot more clarity to your mix. I do this live and in the studio.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
eLeCtRoFrEaK0036
post Dec 2 2012, 01:13 AM
Post #16


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 23-May 11
From: U.S Virgin Islands
Member No.: 12.894



Can I here any mixes that you guys have done? I would like to see what your capable of!


--------------------
Follow me on Twitter
Visit My Website
Please like my Facebook page
Please Subscribe to my Youtube Channel




There's only room for improvement. Never give up on what you love!
#TheWorldisYours

-IsiahDrew
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ConnorGilks
post Dec 2 2012, 10:05 AM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 230
Joined: 1-December 12
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Member No.: 17.078



http://soundcloud.com/you/sets

All just guitar/drums, no bass yet. Gives you an idea though, roughly.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Dec 2 2012, 10:25 AM
Post #18


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.124
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794




Let me know if this one works smile.gif

Attached File  DokuganDrumsC_EQ.zip ( 8.53MB ) Number of downloads: 30


QUOTE (eLeCtRoFrEaK0036 @ Dec 1 2012, 05:44 AM) *
I have Reaper already, but your attachment doesn't work... can you re-upload it or something? Or, you can always send it to my email: [email protected]



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Saoirse O'Shea
post Dec 2 2012, 02:25 PM
Post #19


Moderator - low level high stakes
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 6.173
Joined: 27-June 07
From: Espania - Cadiz province
Member No.: 2.194



QUOTE (eLeCtRoFrEaK0036 @ Nov 30 2012, 09:51 PM) *
Thanks for the picture Todd. I have a few VST's for EQ-ing, but which one do you suggest for a basic user like me who's just getting started?

AND NO... I don't have a clue what a "wide bell" is, but I'll look it up. Like I said, "I'm super new to this and I don't know what I'm doing!"


Good smile.gif. It's quite important to learn what the various terms are as you'll hear them a lot and you'll keep coming coming across them. It's also useful to learn something about the technical aspects of the equipment you use. In this particular case you need to look in to issues like filters, filter shapes and types of EQ.

The type of vst EQ you need to look at would be (in technical terms) a 3 or 4 band parametric minimum phase. In lay man's terms thats a basic eq that comes with a daw. There will be 3 or 4 controls that let you select what frequence band to adjust and also has controls that let you adjust the width of the band/bell. The one to avoid for mixing is the graphic EQ for the main reason that it doesn't let you adjust the width of th bell.

For the time being don't worry about the term minimum phase. That just refers to how the vst eq processes the filtered signal. The majority of vsts are minimum phase.

Play with an eq like Todd says. When you do the other things to do are:

1/ adjust the width of the band/bell. Set the gain as high as EQ will let you on one band. There's probably a control marked 'Q' that will do this. If the eq has a display first try it so that the 'Q' is adjusted so that the bell is a narrow spike. Then sweep the EQ - that is move it up and down the frequency range to see how the sound changes.

2/ Next do the same but attenuate the eq - instead of making a signal louder your going to make it quieter so set the gain so that it cuts the most signal. Agan start with a narrow bell but this time the 'spike' should be upd=side down. Sweep it again up and down and hear how it changes things. When you mix (and master) you'll often find that you need to attenuate eq far more than add gain.

3/ Repeat 1/ and 2/ but this time increase the width of the bell.

Once you've got used to doing these then you may want to learn how to use the slope and shelf filters.


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th March 2017 - 04:46 PM