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> Axefx2 V Mesa Mk V, For those of you who perform live on stage
Todd Simpson
post Dec 7 2012, 04:40 AM
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So after hearing everyone tell you three different things, you are back to square one! smile.gif Hehehehe. That's the way the cookie crumbles eh?

KEMPER: KIller modeling. Many folks seem to agree that it does pure modeling a smidge better. However, the routing, and Effects section are very limited compared to the Axe Fx. The kepmer as 4 slots for stomp box style effects. The Axe FX has a list off effects as long as your arm and all of them are great quality. But if TONE is your goal, pure, amp, tone. This is probably the way to go. BUT for live, your "Tone" will sound a lot like whatever you mic it with. (SM57) and the house PA. Something to consider. But for recording, many pros refuse to use anything else, producers as well. In a controlled setting, hard to beat.

AXE FX: Not quite as good at modeling as the Kemper, so the bulk of reviews seem to say, but only just barely. And superior routing/efx. However, though it's great for live since you can skip the amp, (modeling/cab emulation/straight to the board and BINGO!) for recording it's rated just a hair behind the kemper from what I"ve read but of course, people that own them/love them will tell you that's crap.

AMP: The previous two are MODELLING an amp. This option IS AN AMP. It's the real deal. It's what the others are trying to fake. Nobody ever woke up crying cause they own a MESA RECTO. It's an heirloom. Something you can give to your kids. It's nearly eternal. The tone, the prestige, the curb apppeal, it's all there. But so is the price and hassle factor. A valve amp is a living breathing beast. Like a frisky pet, it's sometimes unpredictable but always fun.

Todd

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Dec 5 2012, 03:26 PM) *
That's the tricky part for me to answer - My band does covers of everything from Talking Heads to Dio - I mean we cover rock from the 80's to the present, and each song we play calls for a different guitar tone. But - and here's the kicker - we've been getting along fine so far with my current tube amp and a pedal here and there - so I don't need a modeler to exist. A Mesa would sound better to my ear (I currently have a Peavy). But would modeler benefit me more than say my existing pedals? I don't know... I'm inclined to hook up my HD500 for my next show to see how going fully emulated goes. But I sure do love the growl of a tube amp on stage. But I'm guessing something like the AxeFX growls too based on what I'm reading smile.gif Grrrrr.



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Alex Feather
post Dec 7 2012, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Dec 6 2012, 02:32 PM) *
This is a very good comparison. The kemper is closer to the real amp, but the real amp wins! smile.gif

I think so too!


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SirJamsalot
post Dec 7 2012, 09:16 AM
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haha - well stated Todd.
I've decided on going for a Mesa stage amp - the real deal. The thing I'm grappling with right now is which one? This evening, I played a gig with my peavey classic 50 2x12. At 50 watts, it was plenty loud to fill the room - there were roughly 100+ people - it was a great time. I told the sound engineer when he came to mic my cab that I really wanted to crank my amp up past 6 - so the tubes would saturate. I told him I'd turn my amp backwards to the wall, so we did, and it was pretty good! The sound reflected off the back corner wall and filled the stage nicely so I could hear myself play, and the engineer was happy because he could control what the audience got through the PA system. It was a win win. It was hilarious - after the show, like 5 people came up to me after the show to ask why I turned my amp backwards to the wall. All of them guitarists, of course haha.

Okay, so I tell you this why? Because Recto's heads are 90/100 watts! The venues I play are small. There's no way I'm going to bring a half stack to a show and turn it down! haha. They sound best cranked up, so I need to come up with a way to saturate tubes for tone, but not kill anyone's ears, so I'm thinking of a mesa combo instead of a head.

I'll save my money and the debate for what modeler is best for a later time. Now to start a new thread on amps! haha. JK.

Thanks everyone!
Chris

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 6 2012, 07:40 PM) *
So after hearing everyone tell you three different things, you are back to square one! smile.gif Hehehehe. That's the way the cookie crumbles eh?

KEMPER: KIller modeling. Many folks seem to agree that it does pure modeling a smidge better. However, the routing, and Effects section are very limited compared to the Axe Fx. The kepmer as 4 slots for stomp box style effects. The Axe FX has a list off effects as long as your arm and all of them are great quality. But if TONE is your goal, pure, amp, tone. This is probably the way to go. BUT for live, your "Tone" will sound a lot like whatever you mic it with. (SM57) and the house PA. Something to consider. But for recording, many pros refuse to use anything else, producers as well. In a controlled setting, hard to beat.

AXE FX: Not quite as good at modeling as the Kemper, so the bulk of reviews seem to say, but only just barely. And superior routing/efx. However, though it's great for live since you can skip the amp, (modeling/cab emulation/straight to the board and BINGO!) for recording it's rated just a hair behind the kemper from what I"ve read but of course, people that own them/love them will tell you that's crap.

AMP: The previous two are MODELLING an amp. This option IS AN AMP. It's the real deal. It's what the others are trying to fake. Nobody ever woke up crying cause they own a MESA RECTO. It's an heirloom. Something you can give to your kids. It's nearly eternal. The tone, the prestige, the curb apppeal, it's all there. But so is the price and hassle factor. A valve amp is a living breathing beast. Like a frisky pet, it's sometimes unpredictable but always fun.

Todd



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Slavenko Erazer
post Dec 7 2012, 10:11 AM
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how was your gig James, do u have any videos recorded?

Did u think about attenuator!?
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zoom
post Dec 7 2012, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Dec 7 2012, 09:16 AM) *
haha - well stated Todd.
I've decided on going for a Mesa stage amp - the real deal. The thing I'm grappling with right now is which one? This evening, I played a gig with my peavey classic 50 2x12. At 50 watts, it was plenty loud to fill the room - there were roughly 100+ people - it was a great time. I told the sound engineer when he came to mic my cab that I really wanted to crank my amp up past 6 - so the tubes would saturate. I told him I'd turn my amp backwards to the wall, so we did, and it was pretty good! The sound reflected off the back corner wall and filled the stage nicely so I could hear myself play, and the engineer was happy because he could control what the audience got through the PA system. It was a win win. It was hilarious - after the show, like 5 people came up to me after the show to ask why I turned my amp backwards to the wall. All of them guitarists, of course haha.

Okay, so I tell you this why? Because Recto's heads are 90/100 watts! The venues I play are small. There's no way I'm going to bring a half stack to a show and turn it down! haha. They sound best cranked up, so I need to come up with a way to saturate tubes for tone, but not kill anyone's ears, so I'm thinking of a mesa combo instead of a head.

I'll save my money and the debate for what modeler is best for a later time. Now to start a new thread on amps! haha. JK.

Thanks everyone!
Chris


Simple answer is turn speaker in cab backwards so it looks cool (important!! laugh.gif ) and your sound engineer and yourself are happy!!
combo doesn't look quite as cool.
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SpaseMoonkey
post Dec 7 2012, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (zoom @ Dec 7 2012, 05:46 AM) *
Simple answer is turn speaker in cab backwards so it looks cool (important!! laugh.gif ) and your sound engineer and yourself are happy!!
combo doesn't look quite as cool.


Ooohhh and add gold plating to it so it really blings in the lights! laugh.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Dec 7 2012, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 7 2012, 12:40 AM) *
So after hearing everyone tell you three different things, you are back to square one! smile.gif Hehehehe. That's the way the cookie crumbles eh?

KEMPER: KIller modeling. Many folks seem to agree that it does pure modeling a smidge better. However, the routing, and Effects section are very limited compared to the Axe Fx. The kepmer as 4 slots for stomp box style effects. The Axe FX has a list off effects as long as your arm and all of them are great quality. But if TONE is your goal, pure, amp, tone. This is probably the way to go. BUT for live, your "Tone" will sound a lot like whatever you mic it with. (SM57) and the house PA. Something to consider. But for recording, many pros refuse to use anything else, producers as well. In a controlled setting, hard to beat.

AXE FX: Not quite as good at modeling as the Kemper, so the bulk of reviews seem to say, but only just barely. And superior routing/efx. However, though it's great for live since you can skip the amp, (modeling/cab emulation/straight to the board and BINGO!) for recording it's rated just a hair behind the kemper from what I"ve read but of course, people that own them/love them will tell you that's crap.

AMP: The previous two are MODELLING an amp. This option IS AN AMP. It's the real deal. It's what the others are trying to fake. Nobody ever woke up crying cause they own a MESA RECTO. It's an heirloom. Something you can give to your kids. It's nearly eternal. The tone, the prestige, the curb apppeal, it's all there. But so is the price and hassle factor. A valve amp is a living breathing beast. Like a frisky pet, it's sometimes unpredictable but always fun.

Todd



I loved this quote "Something you can give to your kids. It's nearly eternal.". Here these kind of emulators and amps are VERY expensive so getting a digital machine that gets old every 2 years is not a good investment...



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SirJamsalot
post Dec 7 2012, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE (SpaseMoonkey @ Dec 7 2012, 04:42 AM) *
Ooohhh and add gold plating to it so it really blings in the lights! laugh.gif



this is win!

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Dec 7 2012, 01:11 AM) *
how was your gig James, do u have any videos recorded?

Did u think about attenuator!?


No video ~ my wife was there with a camera - my new fb profile pic is one she got.

Power trio! My first live gig as a trio! It was pretty awesome - my playing wasn't all that good, but no one seemed to care - I was energetic and played the excited singer / player so people had something to look at.

We played at 9:30 P.M. just before the Headliner - the place was crickets until I hit the first note of our opening song - Twilight Zone by Golden Earring - the doors of the lobby opened up and about 50 people just piled in at one time. By the time we were done the place was filled from front to back. It was a wild feeling. Fun night for sure.

Our set was
Twilight Zone - Golden Earring
A Girl Like You - Smithereens
Psycho Killer - Talking Heads
Where is My Mind - Pixies
Kryptonite - 3 Doors Down
Interstate Love Song - Stone Temple Pilots

I did band intros during the bass solo for Twilight Zone. That song ended up being about 8 minutes long, so we had to chop our last song due to time constraints sad.gif

Cheers!


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jstcrsn
post Dec 7 2012, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Dec 7 2012, 06:51 PM) *
this is win!



No video ~ my wife was there with a camera - my new fb profile pic is one she got.

Power trio! My first live gig as a trio! It was pretty awesome - my playing wasn't all that good, but no one seemed to care - I was energetic and played the excited singer / player so people had something to look at.

We played at 9:30 P.M. just before the Headliner - the place was crickets until I hit the first note of our opening song - Twilight Zone by Golden Earring - the doors of the lobby opened up and about 50 people just piled in at one time. By the time we were done the place was filled from front to back. It was a wild feeling. Fun night for sure.

Our set was
Twilight Zone - Golden Earring
A Girl Like You - Smithereens
Psycho Killer - Talking Heads
Where is My Mind - Pixies
Kryptonite - 3 Doors Down
Interstate Love Song - Stone Temple Pilots

I did band intros during the bass solo for Twilight Zone. That song ended up being about 8 minutes long, so we had to chop our last song due to time constraints sad.gif

Cheers!

if you can get a closed bck cab , it will sound better . Try it in a store and see !
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TeoWulf
post Dec 7 2012, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Dec 7 2012, 09:16 AM) *
haha - well stated Todd.
I've decided on going for a Mesa stage amp - the real deal. The thing I'm grappling with right now is which one? This evening, I played a gig with my peavey classic 50 2x12. At 50 watts, it was plenty loud to fill the room - there were roughly 100+ people - it was a great time. I told the sound engineer when he came to mic my cab that I really wanted to crank my amp up past 6 - so the tubes would saturate. I told him I'd turn my amp backwards to the wall, so we did, and it was pretty good! The sound reflected off the back corner wall and filled the stage nicely so I could hear myself play, and the engineer was happy because he could control what the audience got through the PA system. It was a win win. It was hilarious - after the show, like 5 people came up to me after the show to ask why I turned my amp backwards to the wall. All of them guitarists, of course haha.

Okay, so I tell you this why? Because Recto's heads are 90/100 watts! The venues I play are small. There's no way I'm going to bring a half stack to a show and turn it down! haha. They sound best cranked up, so I need to come up with a way to saturate tubes for tone, but not kill anyone's ears, so I'm thinking of a mesa combo instead of a head.

I'll save my money and the debate for what modeler is best for a later time. Now to start a new thread on amps! haha. JK.

Thanks everyone!
Chris


Why not the mini Recto?
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rec...ectifier25.html
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ConnorGilks
post Dec 8 2012, 12:54 AM
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I find the AxeFX II would be your best bet, as you can get a great Mesa Mark V sound, plus any other sound you could possibly want.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 8 2012, 05:23 AM
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A tough decision to be sure! Congrats on reaching any conclusion at all in the amp/modeller quandry as it's a tough call when both cases have merit. So, on to playing live with a MESA in a smallish room.

1.)GET A HOT PLATE!!!!! smile.gif A little box that lets the amp hit saturation at low volume. OR the sound guy will PULL YOU OUT OF THE MIX!!! ARRGGHHH!!!

2.)Get a Mini Recto. Loses out a bit on curb appeal, but sounds like a MESA should at lower volume.

3.)Do what everybody else does and get a TUBE SCREAMER ( I prefer the original 808) and add volume knob up, distortion knob at zero to drive your amp in a good way at low volume wink.gif

Here is a link to long and boring history of the tube screamer and gives info on why the originals are sooooo sought after by tube nuts.

http://www.analogman.com/tshist.htm

Todd





QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Dec 7 2012, 03:16 AM) *
haha - well stated Todd.
I've decided on going for a Mesa stage amp - the real deal. The thing I'm grappling with right now is which one? This evening, I played a gig with my peavey classic 50 2x12. At 50 watts, it was plenty loud to fill the room - there were roughly 100+ people - it was a great time. I told the sound engineer when he came to mic my cab that I really wanted to crank my amp up past 6 - so the tubes would saturate. I told him I'd turn my amp backwards to the wall, so we did, and it was pretty good! The sound reflected off the back corner wall and filled the stage nicely so I could hear myself play, and the engineer was happy because he could control what the audience got through the PA system. It was a win win. It was hilarious - after the show, like 5 people came up to me after the show to ask why I turned my amp backwards to the wall. All of them guitarists, of course haha.

Okay, so I tell you this why? Because Recto's heads are 90/100 watts! The venues I play are small. There's no way I'm going to bring a half stack to a show and turn it down! haha. They sound best cranked up, so I need to come up with a way to saturate tubes for tone, but not kill anyone's ears, so I'm thinking of a mesa combo instead of a head.

I'll save my money and the debate for what modeler is best for a later time. Now to start a new thread on amps! haha. JK.

Thanks everyone!
Chris


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 8 2012, 05:30 AM


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SirJamsalot
post Dec 8 2012, 07:59 AM
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I'm looking at the Mesa Roadster. Either the head or the combo 212. Either would suit me fine at this point. I found a great deal on craigslist, but haven't heard back from the guy. There's a music store going out of business that has the combo on sale. So, ... after all the research, I think it will serve me best given I do covers and it has 4 channels. As for pedals, I had the screamer, and on my current amp, it basically made my clean channel dirty as if my dirty channel were gained down. On my dirt channel, it basically didn't sound right to my ears.

I picked up an EP boost, and I have to say, it's the best pedal I have in my small arsenal. It just adds to every channel in such a great way it's hard to describe.

Thanks. I'll let you know when/if I get an amp.

Chris!

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 7 2012, 08:23 PM) *
A tough decision to be sure! Congrats on reaching any conclusion at all in the amp/modeller quandry as it's a tough call when both cases have merit. So, on to playing live with a MESA in a smallish room.

1.)GET A HOT PLATE!!!!! smile.gif A little box that lets the amp hit saturation at low volume. OR the sound guy will PULL YOU OUT OF THE MIX!!! ARRGGHHH!!!

2.)Get a Mini Recto. Loses out a bit on curb appeal, but sounds like a MESA should at lower volume.

3.)Do what everybody else does and get a TUBE SCREAMER ( I prefer the original 808) and add volume knob up, distortion knob at zero to drive your amp in a good way at low volume wink.gif

Here is a link to long and boring history of the tube screamer and gives info on why the originals are sooooo sought after by tube nuts.

http://www.analogman.com/tshist.htm

Todd



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Patrik Berg
post Dec 8 2012, 08:30 AM
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Hughes & Kettener tube meister 18 is a great sounding little head too, get a greenback loaded cab or build one yourself. 18 watts lets you crank it on stage


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 11 2012, 12:56 AM
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That combo is a killer working musicians amp. Great tone and not nearly as hefty to tote as the cab/head combo. Four channels to choose from, all the gain you could want. A fine choice. The Stack of course retains the curb/rock star appeal that doesn't exist IMHO in a "Combo". So again, a personal choice.

BTW, I would NOT suggest using a screamer on your clean channel, it would "Drive" your cleans to dirty. On the dirty channel, on a good tube amp, the original screamers (as in not reissue/recent) sound amazing IMHO. Did you have one of the newer screamers? The new ones IMHO are a bit crap. But if it didn't sound right.........

The EP boost is a really fine pedal wink.gif It's doing what screamer does for most folks which is clean boost. There is a new one that adds a compressor and a mix knob so you can blend compressed signal and original signal so you don't lose attack. Now your thinking "Why a compressor?" The guys at XOTIC added a compressor to their spiff clean boost pedal to compress the signal a bit before it gets boosted which can help wads when playing lead. The mix knob allows you to dial in just enough so you still have your original tone. Folks that use them LOVE them. But if the EP boost is working for ya.......


http://www.xotic.us/effects/sp_comp/index.html

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Todd


QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Dec 8 2012, 01:59 AM) *
I'm looking at the Mesa Roadster. Either the head or the combo 212. Either would suit me fine at this point. I found a great deal on craigslist, but haven't heard back from the guy. There's a music store going out of business that has the combo on sale. So, ... after all the research, I think it will serve me best given I do covers and it has 4 channels. As for pedals, I had the screamer, and on my current amp, it basically made my clean channel dirty as if my dirty channel were gained down. On my dirt channel, it basically didn't sound right to my ears.

I picked up an EP boost, and I have to say, it's the best pedal I have in my small arsenal. It just adds to every channel in such a great way it's hard to describe.

Thanks. I'll let you know when/if I get an amp.

Chris!


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 11 2012, 12:57 AM


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SirJamsalot
post Dec 11 2012, 02:18 AM
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Yah, that's rad! the EP boost I'm using doesn't have the compression but it really does sound good on both the clean and dirt channels. I don't normally go HIGH gain because the covers I do are pretty much rock - not much metal past Dio. I'm looking at the head/cab now. I figure I can set up a 4x12 at my studio, and get a 2x12 to tote around to practice. The combo is like 100 lbs!! Talk about a tank! Being able to grip a 2x12 in one hand and a head on the other should make life a lot easier (I'm guessing). Just more trips to the car - but I'm already at 2 trips with my combo, pedal board and guitar, so 2 trips shouldn't be that much of a hassle! haha.

Thanks for the heads up on that EP. I might have to try one out! EP is just amazing tone-wise. I leave it at about 1/4 turn for cleans, then turn it off for dirty rhythm, then back on for leads. Beautiful tone! And not too much!

The screamer I had just made the dirt channel (fuzzy). Sounded great on the clean Chanel though.



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PosterBoy
post Dec 11 2012, 03:33 PM
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I sometimes think I wish I stayed with the pedals and amp approach so I would develop more of a signature sound.

Plus the fun of buying pedals rather than just trying to emulate them (which is luckily less expensive)

Have a look at these boards by LA Sound Design.

Beautifully put together and cabled and sonically mindblowing.

HRI LA Sound Design search results


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SirJamsalot
post Dec 11 2012, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Dec 11 2012, 06:33 AM) *
I sometimes think I wish I stayed with the pedals and amp approach so I would develop more of a signature sound.

Plus the fun of buying pedals rather than just trying to emulate them (which is luckily less expensive)

Have a look at these boards by LA Sound Design.

Beautifully put together and cabled and sonically mindblowing.

HRI LA Sound Design search results


I've seen this site before. Some of those pedal boards are just Beautiful for being just a bunch of pedals stacked on a board! Thanks for the link!


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