Triads/ Minors,dim Or What?
enlo22
Dec 20 2012, 09:07 PM
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So i've been trying to figure this out for a while and still can't seem to so hopefully someone here can help me tongue.gif
I've been trying to understand something i read which says" if you build a triad from each note of the G major scale you'll get the following diatonic chords G,Am,Bm,C,D,Em and F#dim"

so my main question was understanding how do you know if the triad/arpeggio will be minor or not because i know that in the G major scale the notes are g,a,b,c,d,e,f#... so lets say you're playing those arpeggios diatonicly down the neck how would you know which ones to make minor as in the A would be minor according to what i read and the f# would be diminished... how do you figure that out?? HELP! ohmy.gif

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Patrik Berg
Dec 20 2012, 09:29 PM
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A triad is 1,3,5 so whichever note you start on becomes 1 you then move up the scale to find 3 & 5 you will end up with the chord pattern within that scale. Eg A-C-E gives you Am and E-G-B gives you Em. Hope that helps.

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HungryForHeaven
Dec 20 2012, 09:30 PM
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A minor triad consists of the root, minor 3rd and (perfect) 5th, while a major triad has the major 3rd instead of the minor.

Building triads using 1 3 5 from a certain scale, using various notes as root notes, results sometimes in major triads and sometimes in minor triads. In some exceptional cases we get other options as well (such as the black sheep F#dim in your example).

Now, from the major scale, in this case G major - if we use the A as the root note, the other two notes in the triad are C - which is a minor 3rd from the A - and E - which is a 5th from the A; together they make a minor triad (because of the minor 3rd).

I hope this makes sense.

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This post has been edited by HungryForHeaven: Dec 20 2012, 09:31 PM
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PosterBoy
Dec 20 2012, 11:09 PM
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I've just started creating a big Triads lesson project for the Wiki.

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This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Dec 20 2012, 11:10 PM


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enlo22
Dec 20 2012, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Dec 20 2012, 10:09 PM) *
I've just started creating a big Triads lesson project for the Wiki.


awesome man, i'm still lost in it, i understand how to build them just how to play them all the way in order.

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Socky42
Dec 21 2012, 01:22 AM
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1 - major
2 - minor
3 - minor
4 - major
5 - major
6 - minor
7 - diminished

In a major scale it'll always follow the pattern, if that's what you're looking for?

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This post has been edited by Socky42: Dec 21 2012, 01:26 AM


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scottl
Dec 21 2012, 03:17 AM
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Wait until you start superimposing triads on top of the existing harmony in order to get all the upper structure tensions!

Then on to triad pairs and hexatonic scales!!!

Triads are where it is at..... You can really spice up your playing by learning to use them to compliment scales and arps.

I'm eventually going to film some lessons on these topics.

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PosterBoy
Dec 21 2012, 07:10 AM
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I'm creating it as I wanted some core fundamental things to practice and drill into my brain, fingers and ears, when I feel uninspired, but want to use my time well.
So this isn't something I'm a master of, rather something I know I need to master.

I'm using Neck Diagrams to create lots of useful visual aids.

Topics I'm thinking of so far are

What are triads and how to build them from the diatonic scales
Triads on String Sets 654, 543, 432, 321
Wide Voiced Triad Ideas (Eric Johnson, Neil Zaza)
Superimposing Triads


And Scott, yes I will be taking most of the ideas from all of Tomo's triad threads in TGP!

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This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Dec 21 2012, 07:14 AM


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enlo22
Dec 21 2012, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE (Socky42 @ Dec 21 2012, 12:22 AM) *
1 - major
2 - minor
3 - minor
4 - major
5 - major
6 - minor
7 - diminished

In a major scale it'll always follow the pattern, if that's what you're looking for?


Yesss that's it, what's the one for minor etc... But how did you come up with it

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PosterBoy
Dec 21 2012, 09:38 AM
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If we take the Chromatic scale (the entire 12 notes of western music)

C, C#/ Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb, B, C

Each note is a Semitone or Half Tone away from the next (there is no E#/Fb or B#/Cb)

The Major Scale is created using the intervals T, T, H, T, T, T, H

So if we start with C
C, D, E, F, G, A , B, C
Start with G
G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G


To get the triads we take the 1, 3, 5 intervals from each note of the major scale

1, 3, 5
C, E, G
D, F, A
E, G, B
F, A, C
G, B, D
A, C, E
B, D, F#

If you look at the 1 and 3 notes on the Chromatic Scale

C to E is 2 whole tones away so a 3rd interval
Whereas D to F is a whole half tone away, so we call that a flatted 3rd or MINOR 3rd

The 5th in these triads are all

This is what makes the difference with the major and minor triads

The diminished is weird because it has a flat 3rd interval and a flat 5th interval too

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PosterBoy
Dec 21 2012, 12:31 PM
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Crap I didn't edit that correct, Ignore the incomplete sentence about the 5th, it's just a 5th!

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Cosmin Lupu
Dec 21 2012, 05:30 PM
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The easiest way to look at this - in my opinion - is to think of these arpeggios or chords as being made up ONLY of notes belonging to THAT scale you are in. In our case G major:

If we pick a random chord/ arpeggio, obtained by harmonizing the G major scale, we will get a chord being made up only of notes belonging to the G major scale. So for instance, the A chord will be minor because it is made up from the A C E notes which all belong to the G major scale. It could not have been a major chord, as we would need C# and C# DOES NOT belong to the G major scale.

Hope this one helps as well biggrin.gif

Cosmin

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Socky42
Dec 21 2012, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Dec 21 2012, 07:47 AM) *
Yesss that's it, what's the one for minor etc... But how did you come up with it


Just using the 1 3 5 triad method like everyone else in the thread has.

If you're asking WHY it's like that, then I dunno. It just is. (But, I think it has something to do with frequency ratios and pythagorus? Screw maths.)

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This post has been edited by Socky42: Dec 21 2012, 05:43 PM


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enlo22
Dec 21 2012, 09:17 PM
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ok so after reading all of this, it all makes sense now, just use the 1,3,5 formula on the next note of the scale you're working with following the notes of that scale.. smile.gif

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Patrik Berg
Dec 22 2012, 05:56 AM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Dec 21 2012, 08:17 PM) *
ok so after reading all of this, it all makes sense now, just use the 1,3,5 formula on the next note of the scale you're working with following the notes of that scale.. smile.gif

Spot on

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enlo22
Dec 23 2012, 08:41 AM
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ok one last thing i need cleared up so i'm taking a shot that the minor one would be minor,diminised, major,minor,major,major,diminished?

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MonkeyDAthos
Dec 23 2012, 08:52 AM
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Major - (I) Major, (II) Minor, (III) Minor, (IV) Major, (V) Major, (VI) Minor, (VII) Dim - (I) Major

Minor - (VI) Minor, (VII) Dim, (I) Major, (II) Minor, (III) Minor, (IV) Major, (V) Major - (VI) Minor.


Think it works like that. Your thinkin is correct but you skipped a degree.

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This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Dec 23 2012, 08:54 AM


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Cosmin Lupu
Dec 23 2012, 03:10 PM
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If you want to use 7th chords, it goes like this:

Major - (I) Major 7th, (II) Minor 7th, (III) Minor 7th, (IV) Major 7th, (V) Dominant 7th, (VI) Minor 7th, (VII) Minor 7th Flat 5 - (I) Major 7th

Minor - (VI) Minor 7th, (VII) Minor 7th Flat 5, (I) Major 7th, (II) Minor 7th, (III) Minor 7th, (IV) Major 7th, (V) Dominant 7th - (VI) Minor 7th.

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