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> Soloing Help Needed!
rokq22
post Dec 23 2012, 06:58 PM
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I gotta do this. And please bear with me if I jump around.

I guess I might be considered an intermediate guitarist. Certainly not a beginning. Or maybe I'm a beginning bordering on intermediate? IN any case, I'm not bad but it's that I bore myself after two minutes and start sounding the same. sad.gif Needless to say I get frustrated by my lack of progress. Oh, I have some chops. Plus a ton of instructional books/DVDs, I belong to a couple different guitar instruction sites, (like this one), I have tons of solos in tablature, I know some theory (That is, I know what an interval is, triads, arpeggios, scales and modes.), I have written out tons of stuff on neck diagrams adn the different modes and their degrees. And I love the Aeolian mode (of which I can also play the Minor pentatonic and blues scale). However, I don't' even yet have the CAGED system and the minor/major pentatonic scales associated with the chord shapes down yet. But I don't want to. It bores me. (But I would probably enjoy learning them if I knew where I could find solo ideas from each of the shapes. I bore myself trying to make up my own. sad.gif )

Okay, and then there is this. I'm lost when it comes to chord changes and making up stuff that doesn't sound like the stuff I played three minutes ago. sad.gif

For example. Take this progression. Am, Dm, E. Now I'm fairly sure that if the chords were A, D, E it would be a I IV V progression. But what type of progression would a Am, Dm E be?

Okay, cue my Band In A Box. Now I know I can use the A Aeolian (or A Dorian, A minor Pentatonic or A Blues scale), over the Am chord (and I know why the notes work) but when it gets to the Dm do I simply stay in the A Aeolian mode but switch my emphasis to the notes that make up the Dm chord? Or what? What other options are there? And when the progression goes to the E, I'm fairly sure I can use the E major pentatonic, the E mixolydian and/or the E Harmonic Minor. Right?

Okay, having said all that, now what? There are just so many instructional videos and soloing ideas here I really don't know where I should start at. And I have this problem of having too many irons in the fire in that when I do I get overwhelmed and frustrated. Thus, I'd like to know some sort of starting point but not something that might bore me. As Some sort of starting point here which I can progress from and KNOW that I'm progressing.

Your thoughts/ideas are needed! (Please be nice to me sad.gif )

Thanks!

Bob

P.S. I'm 61 and have been playing guitar forever. It's quite embarrassing. I know I have NO speed so I have to concentrate on being more melodic.

P.P.S. I hope this all made some kinda sense.
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Bossie
post Dec 23 2012, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (rokq22 @ Dec 23 2012, 06:58 PM) *
I gotta do this. And please bear with me if I jump around.

I guess I might be considered an intermediate guitarist. Certainly not a beginning. Or maybe I'm a beginning bordering on intermediate? IN any case, I'm not bad but it's that I bore myself after two minutes and start sounding the same. sad.gif Needless to say I get frustrated by my lack of progress. Oh, I have some chops. Plus a ton of instructional books/DVDs, I belong to a couple different guitar instruction sites, (like this one), I have tons of solos in tablature, I know some theory (That is, I know what an interval is, triads, arpeggios, scales and modes.), I have written out tons of stuff on neck diagrams adn the different modes and their degrees. And I love the Aeolian mode (of which I can also play the Minor pentatonic and blues scale). However, I don't' even yet have the CAGED system and the minor/major pentatonic scales associated with the chord shapes down yet. But I don't want to. It bores me. (But I would probably enjoy learning them if I knew where I could find solo ideas from each of the shapes. I bore myself trying to make up my own. sad.gif )

Okay, and then there is this. I'm lost when it comes to chord changes and making up stuff that doesn't sound like the stuff I played three minutes ago. sad.gif

For example. Take this progression. Am, Dm, E. Now I'm fairly sure that if the chords were A, D, E it would be a I IV V progression. But what type of progression would a Am, Dm E be?

Okay, cue my Band In A Box. Now I know I can use the A Aeolian (or A Dorian, A minor Pentatonic or A Blues scale), over the Am chord (and I know why the notes work) but when it gets to the Dm do I simply stay in the A Aeolian mode but switch my emphasis to the notes that make up the Dm chord? Or what? What other options are there? And when the progression goes to the E, I'm fairly sure I can use the E major pentatonic, the E mixolydian and/or the E Harmonic Minor. Right?

Okay, having said all that, now what? There are just so many instructional videos and soloing ideas here I really don't know where I should start at. And I have this problem of having too many irons in the fire in that when I do I get overwhelmed and frustrated. Thus, I'd like to know some sort of starting point but not something that might bore me. As Some sort of starting point here which I can progress from and KNOW that I'm progressing.

Your thoughts/ideas are needed! (Please be nice to me sad.gif )

Thanks!

Bob

P.S. I'm 61 and have been playing guitar forever. It's quite embarrassing. I know I have NO speed so I have to concentrate on being more melodic.

P.P.S. I hope this all made some kinda sense.



Maybe join a mentoring program with one of the guys here..looks like a perfect solution!

This post has been edited by Bossie: Dec 23 2012, 07:29 PM
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rokq22
post Dec 23 2012, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (Bossie @ Dec 23 2012, 06:26 PM) *
Maybe join a mentoring program with one of the guys here..looks like a perfect solution!


Mentoring program?
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Zaphod65
post Dec 23 2012, 07:58 PM
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What it sounds like you need to do, at least to me, is to stop playing and start listening. You're getting bored of the way you sound because you're running over the same ideas over and over again (at least this is what happens in my experience). This happens because you're letting your fingers run over what you already know and not thinking about the actual sonic effect of what you're doing.

Take a step back from the guitar and hum a solo you would like to hear over the backing you're working with. Work with it that way until you can get a better idea of the sound you want to hear and you can remember. Once you have that idea of what you actually want to sound like you can transfer that to the guitar.

If you practice this process of transferring ideas from your head to the guitar enough you should get better at it to the point where you can do it while you're playing but the most important step of this whole process is taking more time to think.


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Bossie
post Dec 23 2012, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (rokq22 @ Dec 23 2012, 07:34 PM) *
Mentoring program?



Yep personal guidance for everyone who likes to progress in his playin...Ben,Alex,Cosmin,Gabriel and Todd have those programs and all you need to do is send them a message here. They'll spice up your skills in no time in a fun way ...time to break out of the circle smile.gif
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derper
post Dec 24 2012, 12:43 AM
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Bob, I can totally relate to this post....so I'm going to try my best to jump right in, and give some advice that helped me with those same issues.

Also, though I'm only 31, I started playing at age 6....but I never got serious until a few years ago. At age 23 I could play some horrible blues, and some cover tunes, but I was lacking in so many areas. At 25, I moved to Portland Oregon and started playing out live. Awful band, with horrible gear at first...but I'm proud to have progressed quite a bit in a somewhat short time. BUT, I didn't start studying and practicing hard a year ago when I joined up here!! laugh.gif
And in that 1 year, I've progressed more than ever!

Back to your questions....

Q:
QUOTE
However, I don't' even yet have the CAGED system and the minor/major pentatonic scales associated with the chord shapes down yet.


A: Well, you seemed to be "interested" in modes a bit (Aeolian, for example). Do you know which position you're playing in, mostly, for solos? I personally learned more from the "blues/pentatonic" school, and found out that the modes were SO similar to the familiar (yet BORING!!) blues forms. If you can determine how you currently see the fretboard now, it can help to decide how to teach you now and where to fill in the gaps.

And in my opinion, whether it's learning scales, modes, intervals, notes or the CAGED system... they all have a similar "end result". So, again, work off of what you know to more quickly learn what you don't.

AND, you'll already know more than you think!! If you're already familiar with Aeolian, you can "strip it down" a bit to a core "skeleton" or "shape", then more a few choice intervals/notes within that shape and BAM!! You've got a tasty Dorian!! And the instructors here can help provide you with specific exercises and backing tracks to highlight the tonal differences (how each mode sounds/feels) to help feel them out.




Q:
QUOTE
For example. Take this progression. Am, Dm, E. Now I'm fairly sure that if the chords were A, D, E it would be a I IV V progression. But what type of progression would a Am, Dm E be?


A: The "A" or "Am" would still be the same "interval"....so it's still a I IV V. But it's just specifying that the I and IV are minor. I personally think of the "interval" relationship as a way to say that "in this instance, the _ chord/note is a IV interval in relation back to the root chord/note".

For instance, expanding on your example above: "In a I IV V progression in the root key of A, the 'IV' chord would be a 'D' because it is the 4th interval of A major. BUT, if we change the 3rd interval of that D chord to a minor 3rd, the D chord becomes a Dm chord.... but the D chord is always the IV chord of A, regardless of which intervals of D change. Those will just determine which type of D chord you are playing, and those intervals are in reference to the D chord, whereas the chord progression intervals (I IV V) reference the intervals of the root chord" Wordy, but I think that clears it up.




Q:
QUOTE
Okay, cue my Band In A Box. Now I know I can use the A Aeolian (or A Dorian, A minor Pentatonic or A Blues scale), over the Am chord (and I know why the notes work) but when it gets to the Dm do I simply stay in the A Aeolian mode but switch my emphasis to the notes that make up the Dm chord? Or what? What other options are there? And when the progression goes to the E, I'm fairly sure I can use the E major pentatonic, the E mixolydian and/or the E Harmonic Minor. Right?


A: And, you just "invented" jazz!! (Well, not you personally...but I think these questions, and exploration is what has expanded music from blues to jazz and beyond!!).

So, while there are no "right" answers to the "what should I play" question, the science of music does give us some very scientific rules as to HOW note will sound in comparison to other notes. So, there is a bit of an outline as to what we hear as "good". Again, the instructors here are awesome at throwing you different lessons to learn this, but it really is a lifelong study. But, you start with the easier, more common progressions and approaches...and eventually start to expand with "outside notes" and tons of cool techniques.

I'll give you one, more direct, answer to this.... generally, if you were to map out the notes of each chord in a progression, there are several shared notes between all or most of the chords (which is why they "work", or sound good together). So, a/many scales or modes will sound good to play through over those chords. But, as you hit a chord change, it helps to emphasize that chord by playing a "chord tone" from that particular chord, or even the root of that chord. Again, the notes may lie within one scale, but usually you want to spice it up by playing at least a note or two outside of that main form, but only over that particular chord change. Blues is a simple way to start learning this. And you don't always have to "switch positions" or "change scales/modes", if you know where to throw that note in. Again....instructors/mentoring will be the way! biggrin.gif

Q:
QUOTE
Okay, having said all that, now what? There are just so many instructional videos and soloing ideas here I really don't know where I should start at.


A: Bob, I'm having so much fun answering these questions, but I hope it helps a bit!! tongue.gif

You're correct. Don't spread yourself too thin, and try not to push into the "frustration zone"! But, at the same time, go explore and have fun!! Here are the things I would suggest, to perhaps save you some time...

-Get in a mentoring program, or 2! The instructors set up your own personal thread, and will answer any questions you have. Here, and everywhere, I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE you to POST VIDEOS of yourself playing! You'll get (by far) the most helpful feedback that way.

-Ask questions!! You'll get great advice from us, and instructors, here in the "Practice Room" and some other places. This, and "Chill Out" are the 2 most frequented boards, I think. But don't be afraid to dig DEEP into the forum...there is "gold" everywhere! If you have any tech questions, or problems with the forum/programs/etc/etc send a PM to Bogdan the "master of internets".

-Challenge yourself to work on 1 or 2 lessons. Post vids to your mentor for tips. When you're ready, submit a "REC" take of your vid to be rated.

-Focus on what YOU want to improve. Have your mentor help build a practice routine that works for you to help achieve what you want. You said you're slow, so maybe dedicate 10-20 mins to a speed building exercise.

-So much to learn...mix it up!! Speed could mean working on picking hand efficiency. Maybe some left hand adjustments. Or hand strength? Outside of speed, there are hammer-ons, vibrato, bends, harmonics and many many more techniques. But, you'll find here, a positive mindset is your biggest ally. Find a way to not get overwhelmed, but to get excited about the learning journey!!

Hope some of that helps.
-Gabriel


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Check out my awesome Nintendo Cover-band, EMULATOR!!
http://www.reverbnation.com/emulator

Now.....go practice!!
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rokq22
post Dec 24 2012, 06:06 PM
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Thanks for all who replied!! smile.gif

@Gabriel,

I think I just want to get "good" too fast.

Anyhow, at least I'm finally being able to SEE the shapes. For the longest time I only knew (for the most part) the standard MINOR pentatonic shape. I then added the notes to, say, the Dorian because I needed more notes to play. But I only randomly hit the notes as if they all had the same "value". But, now, because I want to do some busking next year I REALLY want to learn this thing!

0For starters, I can see the A minor pentatonic. I also see the blues scale in that position and also the Dorian and Aeolian. Hey, there is only a note difference and I SEE that. So, seeing A Aeolian I can also SEE (looking up the neck) the D Dorian "shape" (which is just another fingering of A Aeolian) and also I can SEE the E Phrygian shape (which is, again, the same notes as A Aeolian.) I can also see the G Major shape as well. All of which are just different shapes containing notes of A Aeolian. But I ought to take a step backwards and learn the Major and Minor PENTATONIC SHAPES all over the neck, which I really don't know well. And I understand the C major pentatonic is the same as the A minor. (Hope I've explained that well enough?) Hey, if I'm wrong with any of this at least I'm CLOSE!! biggrin.gif (But please correct me if I"m wrong!!) The thing is that I now, often, understand some of the solos I hear and what the artist might have been thinking about with the notes played. (And, yes, I understand chromatics some also).

Here is a link to a YouTube video I did awhile back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUhwf6ttIPw

I'm not bad. But I couldn't play that again without relearning the whole thing. I'd like to get to the point where I could do that solo, or a better one, without having to think much of it. It'll take time I know.In the meantime I'll study and learn more solos from the bunch that are on this site!!

Thanks again for your help!!

Bob






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