Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Explaining Keys, How do you do it?
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 21 2007, 09:43 PM
Post #1


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



Do any of you smart musical guys have a good way of explaing how to identify a key from a song that actually makes sense? I always run ito problems when I try to explain this, and settle for vague analogies such as a feeling of being on home ground when you get to the tonic, or a feeling of resolution.

Perhaps one of you has figured out a good way of explaining this?


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 22 2007, 11:19 AM
Post #2


GMC Founder & Rocker
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.415
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 2



Yes I'd be interested too - I have never found a way of explaining that...!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pavel
post Jun 22 2007, 12:23 PM
Post #3


Instructor
*

Group: Passive
Posts: 3.764
Joined: 8-January 07
From: Rijeka, Croatia
Member No.: 1.055



Well Andrew if you can't explain it than noone can biggrin.gif

I know how to determine it for myself but i don't know how to explain it!


--------------------
"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 22 2007, 02:59 PM
Post #4


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Pavel @ Jun 22 2007, 07:23 AM) *
Well Andrew if you can't explain it than noone can biggrin.gif

I know how to determine it for myself but i don't know how to explain it!


Yes, that's exactly my problem - how to explain something that is so obvious you don't even need to think about it ...

I will be my life's work unless anyone else has an answer for me smile.gif


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 25 2007, 01:54 PM
Post #5


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.958
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



It's very difficult to explain in this way (on internet). Maybe with some song samples you could help the students. You could upload one song and let them some time to discover the key and finally you tell them the resolution.


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Howell
post Jun 25 2007, 03:35 PM
Post #6


Jazz/Fusion Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 250
Joined: 7-May 07
From: Bath, Uk
Member No.: 1.796



I dont know if this helps but i try explaining it this way.

1>)Get the student to write out the chords to the song.

2>) See which key most of the chords come from (if there are some non-diatonic chords)

3>) See what the relation the non-diatonic chords are to the 'main' key i.e. in this progression:

Dmin7-G7-Bbmaj7-Cmaj7

You could explain it as being a ii-V7-bVII-I in C major.

4>) See where the main tonality is i.e. where the 'tonic' home sound lies.

I hope this is of some use!

-Ben

This post has been edited by benhowell: Jun 25 2007, 03:35 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 25 2007, 04:17 PM
Post #7


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (benhowell @ Jun 25 2007, 10:35 AM) *
I dont know if this helps but i try explaining it this way.

1>)Get the student to write out the chords to the song.

2>) See which key most of the chords come from (if there are some non-diatonic chords)

3>) See what the relation the non-diatonic chords are to the 'main' key i.e. in this progression:

Dmin7-G7-Bbmaj7-Cmaj7

You could explain it as being a ii-V7-bVII-I in C major.

4>) See where the main tonality is i.e. where the 'tonic' home sound lies.

I hope this is of some use!

-Ben


Hi Ben,

That's a good start to a methodology for explaining this. I think the crux of it is in step 4 though - how do you explain the concept of "the main tonality" in words? This is the part I am really struggling with. The rest you can do by numbers, but that final step is down to experience and ear training alone, unless there is some magic way to describe it. This is my dilema!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 25 2007, 11:51 PM
Post #8


GMC Founder & Rocker
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.415
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 25 2007, 02:54 PM) *
It's very difficult to explain in this way (on internet). Maybe with some song samples you could help the students. You could upload one song and let them some time to discover the key and finally you tell them the resolution.


Yes I agree that this is the easisest way - basically finding the tonic note by ear. Perhaps just playing chromatic notes up and down on the e-string until it sounds good! smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 27 2007, 03:38 PM
Post #9


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



Thanks guys - I think I see a way forward, which is kind of a combination of the various comments.

Its impossible to explain in words, but I can use examples of various famous songs to show obvious keys, then move to ones that are less obvious and need more thought. I'll write a lesson based around this some time soon.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
David OToole
post Jul 23 2007, 09:58 PM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 158
Joined: 19-May 07
Member No.: 1.886



I mention to students Andrew that if they come across two major chords one after the other in a song, it's the IV and V chords of the key. Well in diatonic progression of course but most of them are using this.

I make them learn the basic chord families first, and then it's an easy enough matter to get the tonic/home chord once you have the IV + V. After I have DRILLED the 1 IV V's into them smile.gif.

But yeh, hope this helps it's not an easy one.

D


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 23 2007, 10:22 PM
Post #11


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (DavidO @ Jul 23 2007, 04:58 PM) *
I mention to students Andrew that if they come across two major chords one after the other in a song, it's the IV and V chords of the key. Well in diatonic progression of course but most of them are using this.

I make them learn the basic chord families first, and then it's an easy enough matter to get the tonic/home chord once you have the IV + V. After I have DRILLED the 1 IV V's into them smile.gif.

But yeh, hope this helps it's not an easy one.

D


Yes, thats a different take on it, thanks!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 13th December 2017 - 08:02 PM