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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 28 2015, 01:19 PM
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Hi mate, I'm writing about the new sample that you've sent of your song. I had a small issue that I'd like to share because it can be used as a part of the feedback. I listened to the tune twice and I couldn't really identify the structure, even having your description. It would help If you can give me timings for each part but this shows that the parts still need some work give the song a more defined evolution. I notice that the overall tune is a bit linear and this are some possible reasons:

- Groove: You said that you still have to work on drums, I think that at least some early changes for the different parts can bring some clarity to the structure.

- Harmony: The chord progressions used for each part are similar, there is a clear movement on any of the parts. I usually see the verse as the beginning of the story, the pre chorus as a tense moment, and the chorus the release or explossion of that tense pre chorus. I don't feel it on this song. I think that maybe changing a bit the pre chorus progression could be a good plan.

- Arrangements: There is no apparent change in instruments, type of arrangements and what's leading the tune in different parts. We have the looped drum, the backing guitar and a lead guitar. Arrangements, sound, and different instruments can generate different feelings and can help to differentiate the parts of your song.

Other than that, I think that you song has really tasty melodies and progressions, everything sounds dreamy so you have the essential, now it's time to adjust it to make it cooler to hear.


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ElHombre
post Jan 28 2015, 02:15 PM
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Yes, but about the drums, Im not so good with them, I will have a friend who will do very good drums for my track.
So if we can focus just on the instrumental bit.

Yes, I noticed how similar the instrumentation is.
Now, I think maybe I can keep the idea about the pre chorus/verse 2, but I need to throw some other chords and progression in there.
Some minor chords would be cool since the other are major/sus

The chorus has very similar parts, just a rythm change, but I kind of like it.
First the original riff is played, then a change with a melody over it

So i think the key to this is to change the pre chorus?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 28 2015, 02:27 PM
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Hi mate, yeah, sorry that I insist with drums, but as it can be one of the reasons, I cannot avoid at least add it to the list of things that can be generating the feeling that I had when I listen to the tune. Honestly, I don't think that you will find tricky to change a bit the groove, it doesn't mean that you will create the best drum groove ever, but at least something to differentiate sections could really help. Moving the snare to another beat can do the trick.

Now getting back to harmony, yes, I feel that a change in the pre chorus can really help to mark a difference between verse and chorus, and to direct the tension. Maybe staying on the Vi chord can help, or an ascending passage from the I chord to II, III, IV and V to then resolve on I for the chorus. There are many different possibilities, and it would really help to analyze some pre chorus of songs that you like listening.


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ElHombre
post Jan 29 2015, 01:03 AM
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Im on it smile.gif
Yes I can switch the groove. of course, we have the element of lead guitar, bass ,production and everything that will be done later on to get the song right.

But the harmony in that section needs improvement. I will try my best with drums as well, I will send you a track soon and you can also analyze it, with ignoring the drums if you know what I mean, just to see if the harmony is good in itself.

Alright, a problem I face now is, many ideas but, now I moved away too far from the track and the mood.
I made a new idea for the pre chorus, I got so happy I will save it for another song xD
Also It didnt really fit the mood.

I will keep the tempo and time signature throughout the song, but there will be a small break after the chorus in 6/4 I think where I have a nice idea.

I will try to do something simple, that goes along but is a bit different and creates tension



This post has been edited by ElHombre: Jan 29 2015, 01:59 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 29 2015, 02:24 PM
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Hi mate, this sounds good. It's really interesting to see you working hard on this one, trying, experimenting, doing yourself lots of questions. This is a killer learning process, it's the real learning process because you are MAKING MUSIC. As everything in life, the more your practice, the better composer you'll become, and the easier will be to transpose your ideas to your voice, guitar or multitrack software.

Let's do something more analytic, please write down here the chord progressions used for each of the parts and we will analyze what's happening together, ok?


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ElHombre
post Jan 29 2015, 02:52 PM
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I will do my best to write it down smile.gif I never written a progression like this before, since this one is a little mix between chords and "riff" if you know what I mean. But I will manage, I will also write down the entire verse and my first pre chorus idea, even though Im not going to use that one, we can see whats going on


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 29 2015, 02:54 PM
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When the riffs are single notes, you can say the root of the riff, and specified the scale or mode. For example E Phrygian Riff.


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ElHombre
post Jan 29 2015, 10:20 PM
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Ok, here it is so far

Intro/chorus



A/C# Major - C#sus2 sharp 5th - C# minor Sharp 5th

B/D# Major D# minor sharp 5th. -=- (octave)

A/C# Major - C#sus2 sharp 5th - C# minor Sharp 5th

B5 - Bsus2 - B maj (inversion root 5th, major 3rd)

Verse


Distortion: A5, B5

Ambient acoutstic, Amaj7, B

Pre chorus

A5, C# sus2, B5, Bsus2

Chorus again
=-=

Hope it makes sense ^^


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 30 2015, 03:32 PM
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Hi mate, it's cool to have the chords because now I can follow even more the structure of this one. After playing along with the song, I have a new question in mind, please let me know what you think.

Don't you feel that the pre-chorus, sounds more like a "chorus" than the "chorus"?


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ElHombre
post Jan 30 2015, 06:32 PM
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hmm that is possible Gab. Now that I think of it, the chorus doesnt sound more "chorus" than the pre chorus.
Im not sure I think the pre chorus sounds like a chorus, but its defintly not a big enough contrast to release the chorus smile.gif
Ok, so the goal here is too:

Wihtout thinking of drums and lead guitar and percussions, make a pre chorus that sound good in itself.

I mean, think like this, lets say we will make a song without drums or anything, just a rythm guitar. We want the pre chorus to sound strong and fitting on its own, so that it will be even more powerful, it will be awesome when we have good drums and lead guitar to enhance the effect.

Ok, so if we analyze the pre chorus, what makes this not such a powerful pre chorus?

Is it the note/chord choice.
Or the rythm?

Cause, the idea I had in my head that came out. I kind of like the little change of pace, you know on the first A power chord there
And then hitting some high strings.

Or should it be less pacy?
What would you change in the harmony/rythm to make it a more solid pre chorus?

What do you think of the riffs in the end with the drum fills?
I think that can be a good ending to the pre chorus somehow, maybe with other chords

This post has been edited by ElHombre: Jan 30 2015, 06:33 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 31 2015, 04:06 PM
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Hi mate, this thread is becoming really interesting. All the question that you are doing yourself should be answered by yourself. As you are on the trial and error stage, it would be very helpful to create different versions of the song trying the different possibilities for the structure and pre chorus. There is no "theory" behind it, it must be tried and then listened. There is off course always a "safe" version that will work, but going for the safe roads, and avoiding trying risky ideas is like killing your own creativity.

My thoughts about the current structure are:

- The pre chorus has the harmony and structure of a chorus. It is catchy, long, and creates a cool emotion. I like the part a lot.
- The chorus is not strong, it's a bit stable. I feel that it's a good intro for a song but it's weak as a chorus unless it contrasts better with the pre chorus.

Both combines don't work for me.



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ElHombre
post Jan 31 2015, 10:56 PM
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Good stuff Gab!
I think you are right, but I also a thing came to my mind.

wow.. so hard to explain.. biggrin.gif I will try my best, maybe you can relate!

Ok, I think you view this song differently than me. The reason for this is. I made this song 100 % in my head.
I listen to tons of instrumental music, especially such music that builds songs you know in a way, with the lead guitar like the voice.
Melodies, ideas for pre chorus everything coming to my head, bang just like that, an idea.

Like, the song is different in the recording from how it is in my head, and when I listen to it.
The way I vizualie it

I think I will record a video tommorow, cause this is so hard to explain in words!

Now.
This song, is different in my head from what it is in a recording. Its hard to explain, I got the notes right, the harmony as I want in my head kind of.
I can feel how I want it, and I want it exactly as it is.

Now, the problem is. Bad recording, not fitting drums, no powerful mix etc.
not ONLY that, but it adds.
Of course, maybe this isnt a typical "strong harmony" in terms of pre chorus and chorus.

Is very hard to explain, but now that I listen to the track, after a few days from the recording.
I kind of.. loved how I vizualised it in a way.
For me, It now sounds as I want in a way.

Ok, I did not go so well to explain I think but I think you can understand!


Hey gab! thinking a lot and i will make a second post, easier for you to read (sry for writing so many words)

Intro - exactly as I imgagine/want
Verse - perfect, like I wanted, nice mood
Pre chorus - maybe it seem more like a chorus, but I love my pre chorus, atleast in my head, I think it can turn out great
Chorus - doesnt become so powerful cause the pre chorus is kind of powerful.


So the main problem here is, that the chorus doesnt come out to powerful cause of the effects of the pre chorus!
Now, should I change the pre chorus cause of this?

I think not, but maybe I can adjust the chorus I bit?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 1 2015, 10:16 PM
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Hi mate, this has been a tricky to follow post, but I found it cool because I can see a bit what's happening in your mind while you create and analyse your music. Our thoughts aren't totally clear when we are creating genuine music, so feel happy and enjoy this process.

In the last phrases of your post I could notice that we agree 100% about the current status of your composition. You used other words, but to summarize the idea is the same.

I listened again and I still think this:

- The pre chorus has the harmony and structure of a chorus. It is catchy, long, and creates a cool emotion. I like the part a lot.
- The chorus is not strong, it's a bit stable. I feel that it's a good intro for a song but it's weak as a chorus unless it contrasts better with the pre chorus.

Both combines don't work for me.



So I think that your idea of re-working the chorus is definitely a good plan to go.


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ElHombre
post Feb 2 2015, 10:14 AM
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Yes
The intro Will be a great outro

I have an idea already for a new chorus

I Will still keep the idea with the extended chorus melody, i like it a lot
So the new chorus has to fit with both that one and the pre chorus


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 2 2015, 02:51 PM
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Sounds great! Looking forward a new version. smile.gif


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ElHombre
post Feb 5 2015, 02:10 PM
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Also a thing ive thougt about is to not have too many ideas for a song
I need to make this fit with the song

Also have you checked out, soon comes a competition on jamtrackcentral, very excited


And a non guitar question
I like a lot South America, and spain , the language
In a few years i Think i Will move to one of these countries
How is Argentina ? smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 5 2015, 02:48 PM
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Hi mate, take your time to find the right way for this song. Composing is not something logical, there are some songs that appear clearly soon, while others take many time to take shape and finally be completed. There are no rules about it, so take your time, enjoy the journey, and off course start some new ideas songs if they appear.

About the competition, I didn't know about. What's the theme and topic?

Argentina? It's a beautiful place! You have everything here, since it's a big country. You have snow, mountains, lakes, ocean, jungle, big city, small towns... check it out:





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ElHombre
post Feb 6 2015, 07:57 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEZjQ3QLr0

Here is a teaser video

I might have come up with a solo line for the chorus. It was kind of originally made for the intro rythm. Maybe with another rythm it could work out as a chorus or Ill try something else.

Looks beatiful man smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 7 2015, 03:25 PM
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The teaser looks interesting, let's see if they reveal more info about it. I'll wait for news about the song! wink.gif


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ElHombre
post Apr 23 2015, 06:55 PM
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Hello Gabriel!
Work has eased of a bit. The reason I have worked so much this season, is cause Im going to study next year and need money for that.

Anyway I have stopped producing musical ideas for a little while, moslty cause I no longer have a direction.
By that I mean, I dont know what music I want to write anymore.

Right now learning this song and will put a cover up of this one, beatiful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efQnIDmfLFw


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