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> Mr. Spock's Applied Theory Galactic Compendium
Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 16 2013, 10:52 PM
Post #41


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Hey mate, you are 100% correct on all your assumptions smile.gif And yes, my ultimate question was what notes ar making up those chords smile.gif

If harmonizing meant using notes that belong only to the E major scale and you have the formulas for minor, major and diminished chords, apply the formulas for each chord you have and you'll discover the notes that make them up. As an example:

E major chord - it is a major chord thus it is built by using the root, major third and 5th -> 1 3 5 - we are in the E major scale, meaning that the notes making up the E major chord are E G# B

Now, your task is to figure out the rest of the chords smile.gif

Cosmin


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Spock
post Jan 17 2013, 12:31 AM
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Okay - so the formula is

Major: Root > Major 3rd > 5th or (1>3>5)
Minor: Root > Minor 3rd > 5th or (1>3b>5)
Diminished: Root > Minor 3rd > Minor 5th or (1>3b>5b)

(Remember 6th note is Relative minor in Scale)
(Remember 7th note is Diminished)

E Major Chord: E > G# > B

F# Minor Chord: F# > A > C#

G# Minor Chord: G# > B > D#

A Major Chord: A > C# > E

B Major Chord: B > D# > F#

C# Minor Chord: C# > E > G#

D# Diminished Chord: D# > F# > A

For the above, I'm just trying to encapsulate what I'm learning for easy reference.




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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 17 2013, 10:15 AM
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100% Correct!!!

Let's try the same drill for Db major scale smile.gif Sorry for being a nag, but I want you to cement these in your system biggrin.gif


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Spock
post Jan 17 2013, 09:50 PM
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Okay, I'm seeing the pattern, but I haven't got it to where my mind will automatically jump to if the next note in the progression should be flat or not (or sharp or not).

The toughest part of this was transposing the sharps to flat and not getting confused.

If I did not get something wrong, just let me know which line has an error and let me see if I can figure it out.

Thanks!

BTW - don't worry about "nagging", this repetition is what will eventually work, and I wish I had done as a child.

Major: Root > Major 3rd > 5th or (1>3>5)
Minor: Root > Minor 3rd > 5th or (1>3b>5)
Diminished: Root > Minor 3rd > Minor 5th or (1>3b>5b)

(Remember 6th note is Relative minor in Scale)
(Remember 7th note is Diminished)

Db Major Chord: Db > F > A

Eb Minor Chord: Eb > Gb > Bb

F Minor Chord: F > Ab > C

Gb Major Chord: Gb > Bb > Db

Ab Major Chord: Ab > C > Eb

Bb Minor Chord: Bb > Db > F

C Diminished Chord: C > Eb > Gb

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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 18 2013, 10:00 AM
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This is great man! biggrin.gif You got the hand of it it seems biggrin.gif

Well, now, I think it's time to discuss about 7th chords - have you ever heard about those? It's actually your first step into the world of chords made out of 4 different notes instead of 3.

Let's imagine that we have the C major scale and we want to add the 7th for each chord that we obtain after we harmonize the scale.

I want you to tell me which is the 7th of each note making up the scale - remember that the 7th must belong to the C major scale as well smile.gif


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Spock
post Jan 20 2013, 10:44 AM
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Okay, I guess that means to simply add the 7th (or diminished) note of each root…

Major: Root > Major 3rd > 5th or (1>3>5)
Minor: Root > Minor 3rd > 5th or (1>3b>5)
Diminished: Root > Minor 3rd > Minor 5th or (1>3b>5b)

(Remember 6th note is Relative minor in Scale)
(Remember 7th note is Diminished)

C Major Chord: C > E > G > B

D Minor Chord: D > F > A > C

E Minor Chord: E > G > B > D

F Major Chord: F > A > C > E

G Major Chord: G > B > D > Gb <--- Gb/F# wrong here, I don't understand?

A Minor Chord: A > C > E > G

B Diminished Chord: B > D > F > A

I just guessed that the formula for the Diminished Chord would be 1 > 3b > 5b > 7b off the major scale?


There must be an error in this calculation Captain.

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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 20 2013, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jan 20 2013, 09:44 AM) *
G Major Chord: G > B > D > Gb <--- Gb/F# wrong here, I don't understand?

I just guessed that the formula for the Diminished Chord would be 1 > 3b > 5b > 7b off the major scale?


Everything is correct - aside from the G dominant 7th as it is called - which has G B D A - that's 1 3 5 b7 as a formula and indeed the 1 b3 b5 b7 is the correct formula for the half diminished chord (m7b5) formed on the 7th scale degree.

Now, the harmonized major scale would have the following chord structure: M7 m7 m7 M7 7 m7 m7b5 M7

M7 - major 7th - 1 3 5 7
m7 - minor 7th - 1 b3 5 b7
7 - dominant 7th - 1 3 5 b7
m7b5 - half diminished - 1 b3 b5 b7

Knowing all these now, can you take care of the same drill for the E major scale?

Cosmin


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Spock
post Jan 21 2013, 07:54 PM
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Everything is correct - aside from the G dominant 7th as it is called - which has G B D A - that's 1 3 5 b7 as a formula and indeed the 1 b3 b5 b7 is the correct formula for the half diminished chord (m7b5) formed on the 7th scale degree.

Now, the harmonized major scale would have the following chord structure: M7 m7 m7 M7 7 m7 m7b5 M7

M7 - major 7th - 1 3 5 7
m7 - minor 7th - 1 b3 5 b7
7 - dominant 7th - 1 3 5 b7
m7b5 - half diminished - 1 b3 b5 b7

Knowing all these now, can you take care of the same drill for the E major scale?



I'm not understanding a couple of things

The G Dominant 7th being G>B>D>A doesn't make sense to me, with the 1>3>5>b7 formula? G major scale would have G > B > D > F#, so if we go a half step down from F# that gives us an F. I'm confused on how we calculate G > B > D > A out of that?

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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 21 2013, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jan 21 2013, 06:54 PM) *
Everything is correct - aside from the G dominant 7th as it is called - which has G B D A - that's 1 3 5 b7 as a formula and indeed the 1 b3 b5 b7 is the correct formula for the half diminished chord (m7b5) formed on the 7th scale degree.

Now, the harmonized major scale would have the following chord structure: M7 m7 m7 M7 7 m7 m7b5 M7

M7 - major 7th - 1 3 5 7
m7 - minor 7th - 1 b3 5 b7
7 - dominant 7th - 1 3 5 b7
m7b5 - half diminished - 1 b3 b5 b7

Knowing all these now, can you take care of the same drill for the E major scale?



I'm not understanding a couple of things

The G Dominant 7th being G>B>D>A doesn't make sense to me, with the 1>3>5>b7 formula? G major scale would have G > B > D > F#, so if we go a half step down from F# that gives us an F. I'm confused on how we calculate G > B > D > A out of that?


Hey mate - it's easy - you see you are dealing with the b7 not the major 7. In the case of G, the major 7 would've been F# but since we are in the key of C major, F# wouldn't fit, right? But F does and F is the flat 7th in respect to G - true? smile.gif


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Spock
post Jan 24 2013, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 21 2013, 05:28 PM) *
Hey mate - it's easy - you see you are dealing with the b7 not the major 7. In the case of G, the major 7 would've been F# but since we are in the key of C major, F# wouldn't fit, right? But F does and F is the flat 7th in respect to G - true? smile.gif


I'm sorry Cosmin, I'm trying to understand and have looked at it over and over, and I still am not getting how we get "A".

This is how my mental process is working...

When I was harmonizing the G note in the C Major scale, it is a major in the formula M>m>m>M>M>m>D, and the formula is 1 > 3 > 5 > b7

So this is the way I am calculating that...



I am not understanding when you said "since we are in the key of C major, F# wouldn't fit"?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 25 2013, 09:51 AM
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Mate, it's pretty much under your nose biggrin.gif

It's also written in the little tab below the diagram - it says G and 'Major scale' - that means the G major scale, but we are harmonizing the C major scale smile.gif Which contains F not F # so if we build the G chord using notes belonging to the C major scale we will have G B D (G major chord) and if we add the 7th, we will discover that it's a b7th due to the fact that we are in the key of C major.

That gives us F not F# smile.gif is it clear now? I know it's a bit mind boggling, but they'll make sense once you get used to these ideas biggrin.gif

Cosmin


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Spock
post Jan 25 2013, 03:56 PM
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Okay, I do understand it - as it IS G > B > D > F ! biggrin.gif

I was bad confused because I was trying to figure out how you got an "A" in that in post #47

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 20 2013, 10:55 AM) *
Everything is correct - aside from the G dominant 7th as it is called - which has G B D A - that's 1 3 5 b7 as a formula and indeed the 1 b3 b5 b7 is the correct formula for the half diminished chord (m7b5) formed on the 7th scale degree.


That must have been a typo? I do understand if the G > B > D > F

Now, I'll attempt the next question you've put to me.

BTW - just checked out your band Days of Confusion, awesome stuff! I thought you were only in VooDoo and from what I could tell from You-Tube it looked like you may have been the new guitarist for them. Both your bands are awesome, I just sent my son your "Meta" video - killer song, love the chorus!

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Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 25 2013, 09:57 PM
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Hehe biggrin.gif Thanks man - I am no longer in Voodoo. I quit because things were stalling and I felt like it was holding me in place. Right now I can focus on Days of Confusion without any other restraint smile.gif

Anyway, I'm glad you got that pesky G dominant 7th chord biggrin.gif Now, tell me, can you figure out the notes of A dominant 7th chord, for instance?

Cheers!

Cosmin


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Spock
post Feb 12 2013, 10:54 PM
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Back. I'm in and out as I'm having to deal with some medical issues, so I'm trying to refresh my memory on everything.


Okay - so A Dominant 7th

A C# E G

I feel like I may not be entirely answering the question?


BTW - I was able to make that song idea have more dynamic as you suggested and I like it much better. And working another idea too. Also working on vocal melodies now, lyrics soon.





New idea in the works, this one is just fun to play.

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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 13 2013, 09:07 AM
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Hey mate, welcome back! I hope that you are ok! The answer is correct!!

I love the songs, but who will record the vocals? Really looking forward to hearing that biggrin.gif

One thing which I noticed, is that you should widen your vibrato and make it more fluid sounding - have you ever worked on that as a goal in itself?


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Spock
post Feb 13 2013, 09:27 AM
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Thanks Cosmin. No, I haven't really worked on vibrato that much other than just a whammy bar. I'm really just a very basic enthusiast that wishes I knew much more and could do much more with a guitar. I wish I had taken it much more seriously as I was younger.

I think I am going to do the vocals. I want to get a cheap condenser mic for my computer to get them into Logic though. Also, I'm going to have my son redo all the drum parts when he is home from college one weekend. He's MUCH better at programming drums than I am.

As far as medical, I actually have 2 bulging discs in my neck which send pain down my shoulder and left arm, and numbs my finger tips. I'm looking at surgery. When I put the guitar on the strap ads weight to that side and it hurts very bad after sitting straight up in a chair playing with it for a couple of hours. I refuse to let that get in my way though.

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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 13 2013, 09:30 AM
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Hey man, I suggest you to get your hands on a guitar stand - one of those that keeps the guitar in playing position so you won't keep it strapped or need to sit down holding it, at least until this situation gets fixed sad.gif

Well now, what would you say if we worked on your vibrato technique a bit? it's a shame not to have those solos shining all the way smile.gif


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Spock
post Feb 13 2013, 12:09 PM
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Working on vibrato sounds good, but I would also love to learn some simple "go-to" patterns, does that make sense? I have 1, that I am embarrassed to play anymore, even when by myself. Something just doesn't translate from my head to the fretboard on the spot. But sure vibrato sounds good as well.

Funny, I had not even thought about a guitar stand - excellent idea!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 13 2013, 11:04 PM
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Hmmmm - what do you mean by simple 'go-to' patterns? smile.gif

Regarding vibrato - I totally recommend this one as a starting point: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Vibrato-Odyssey/

Cosmin


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Spock
post Mar 7 2013, 12:29 PM
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Hey Cosmin,

I will start working on this now as I finally got the shot in my neck to relieve some pain, unfortunately, the pain still persists down my left arm, but at least I can strap the guitar over my shoulder.

Anyway - enough of the excuse, I have also run into what may be a horrifying realization, is it possible that I may have maxed my speed potential (at a very slow speed!!!). In one of my songs there is a quick lick that I did and never got it clean, however I got part of it clean, just enough to cut it and loop it thinking it should be no problem to get the finger memorization down and be able to nail it. Well, I have not been able to do it - and to make matters worse, I can't remember the exact notes I was hitting that morning.

The speed for the lick is 280 BPM (I think, the song speed is 140 BPM so I think it is twice as fast), and I have laid on the couch and played that little trill a million times, over and over and over thinking the next day I would pick it up and it would be there - but is has not come. At best playing it clean I'd guess I am up to around 200-220 BPM range, but it is soooo freaking easy, however my right hand will not sync up, and I've never had to work for so long on such small lick - although I've never tried to play that fast either.

Have you ever heard of someone hitting the wall and maxing out their potential? AAAAHHHHHHH!!!! huh.gif
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