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> Got A Problem - Need Some Help
Owen
post Jun 23 2007, 09:36 PM
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Both guitarists in my band are annoying the hell outta me.

I'll explain -

In my band I am vocals, I dont play guitar just in it fyi.

Anyways - We had a practice today, jamming with a new drummer for only the second time. They had got together the weekend before and had told me they had knocked up a song and a half of material and that it was all sounding great blah blah blah. The day before though I had said to the drummer, putting my complete faith in them, that they would have some sound material for him to lay some decent beats too.

Big mistake.

They come in, and hammer at random power chords for a whole hour and a half, looking like complete muppets, no synchronization at all, standing around frowning at each other whilst I try and put my heart and soul into singing whilst the drummers going so fast to inject energy to the equation he's getting blisters. So that continued for an hour or so and at the end of that I just thought "F**k this" and told them to stop what they were doing and jam to a concept I had come up with, so I drove energy into what was happening, straining myself just to get them going, eventually it goes alright - purely because I was trying to drive everyone to the brink, however, they were still incoherent and only just managed to get 15 minutes of jamming in without sounding retarded and thin on the ground - in short they turned the amps up >__>

But yeah, this is ridiculous, I dont want to kick either of them, they're both good friends on mine and each other, but they have completely no idea how to play in synch with each other after three months of playing together and the drummer wants another jam next weekend, I need some ideas for them to play with each other well. They're in denial and blaming it on the equipment but I know whats going on as I was watching and listening both of them carefully and no doubt the drummer was too, it needs sorted.

How do other people in two guitar bands manage this? Help? Suggestions please?

Come to my aid! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Owen: Jun 23 2007, 09:39 PM


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MickeM
post Jun 23 2007, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE (Owen @ Jun 23 2007, 10:36 PM) *
How do other people in two guitar bands manage this? Help? Suggestions please?

Come to my aid! tongue.gif

Aid is on it's way laugh.gif

Being the only guitar is easy, just have to do everything and doesn't have to bother.

Two guitars, a different story.

NEVER try to play the exact same rhythm, unless you got it all together. Even if you do it will sound thicker if one play f.ex an F with its root on the thick E string while the other play it root on the A string.
If both try to play the exact same thing, it will not sound as good. I mean, what's the point? Rather have one guitarist do it and run it through yet a set of cabinets. rolleyes.gif Nah, a fat rhythm can be sweet but both really have to be syncronised.

How do we archive it in the band I'm in, that got two guitarists?
First and most important, decide the roles for each song. Who will play what? If both do different chord positions it may sound better and if it's deifficult, one does the rhythm pattern and the other can just strike a chord and let it ring.
As soon as things start to sound crappy, break it up, especially if they can't realize it themselves and correct themselves. It's GOOD if someone (you?) can perform as manager to keep things organised.

Discuss the approach before each song. Make notes to use at the next session (with plenty of songs it's sometimes easy to forget tiny details)

* Dont play the exact same stuff
* Maybe do chords in different octaves. One may do licks the other rhythm etc. There's a lot of approaches.
* Decide before the song who does what
* Take notes
* Have a manager to steer things up

Hope you can use one or two things of my band experiences that applies to yours smile.gif


EDIT: And I think that avatar of yours of a screaming man speaks for itself laugh.gif

This post has been edited by MickeM: Jun 23 2007, 11:32 PM


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Robin
post Jun 23 2007, 11:40 PM
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I'm the only guitarist in my band, but some years ago we were 2 guitarists. We were complete noobs, but we made songs, some times we played the same stuff, sometimes one did backing and one "main" riff/melody or twin guitar stuff. We were totally Iron Maiden fans, so of course we had 1 solo each in every song smile.gif Two solos in one song could be a good idea so it wont be arguing beetween the guitarists biggrin.gif

And in Paralyzed, my other soft band, I play electric and the 2 other girls play acoustic. No problem at all.

About the drummer playing fast and all, sounds like he is just trying to show skills or something? Speed has nothing to do with skill, try to make him understand that tongue.gif (Maybe he do already, but from what I just read it doesnt sound like he does laugh.gif)
When we make songs, lets say we have a riff or two, we work on that. We take one riff and say "Lets use this one for intro, can you come up with some good drum rythms for this?". And we also make something up for the bass, unless the bass is playing the same as the guitar.
Then we get the intro done, then maybe theres another instrumental part, then maybe a verse, maybe we go back to the intro again, another verse, and then some instrumental middle part etc. etc.
We dont really jam for hours. When we're warming up me and the bassist just play random stuff, and thats when we come up with really good riffs. We do as I said above, we make a song out of it, instantly when we get some good material, even if its only 1 riff. Your question was about having 2 guitarists, I dont know if this answers that, but try to actually organize a song instead of jam around for hours.


I really hope this helped.


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Smikey2006
post Jun 23 2007, 11:52 PM
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Ive played in a few 2 guitar bands and im realising a few things that i hope will help.
#1- its never good to have 2 good friends both playing guitar, because heres the deal, both guitarists will never admit to being worst than the other when they are both friends. to overcome this you always want to try and have 1 guitarist willing to admit defeat. in the case of my band.. thats me smile.gif my other guitarist owns me and i know it biggrin.gif. doesn't mean we arn't friends it just means when he wants to step on the overdrive and do some fancy sh*t i step back and watch the fireworks.

#2- if your playing the same thing, its easy to stay together if you both practice it to a METRONOME. really fast riffs with two guitars don't always work unless its alot of open notes or your both gods, this why is whys its always great to have 1 guy chording with simple riffs while the lead plays the more technical stuff, THERE MUST BE A DEFINATE LEAD TO RYTHEM difference! without it both guitars try to take over and it equils CHAOS!

#3- during a jam if it doesn;'t sound right, don't keep pushing, just put the guitars in the cases and quit,.. sell them on ebay or something .. biggrin.gif jk but take breaks hour and a half of crappy jam probably does less good than 15 minutes of good jam. go get coffee, or sit around turn the amps of and twink around a bit, just move the drummer away from the drums because i have yet to meet a drummer who isn't annoying as hell.

#4- new drummer, let them get in tune with you, FOLLOW THE DRUMMER DON"T OLLOW THE GUITARS!.. simple concept.

Thats most of my advice. bands are a hard deal, sometimes its just doesn't work, find new members and start again it takes alot of trys before you get the right chemistry for playing live or for making a demo.
for just jams.. just remmeber its supposed to be fun so take it slow and things will come

PS: ive been in a band with 3 guitars before... it was chaos

hope this helps smile.gif


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Owen
post Jun 24 2007, 12:16 AM
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Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming if anyone has any more, I think I know where I might be going with this.

@ Smikey - We cant really sit around and have a break, we're in paid practice rooms on scheduled times.


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Smikey2006
post Jun 24 2007, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Owen @ Jun 23 2007, 07:16 PM) *
Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming if anyone has any more, I think I know where I might be going with this.

@ Smikey - We cant really sit around and have a break, we're in paid practice rooms on scheduled times.


Sry about that 1 smile.gif guess thats why im a fan of garages and basements or my schools practice room, maybe thats another thing to work on, stress sucks when jamming music is about expression and about enjoying to do it, being stressed out about having time limits and such wouldn't be too fun


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Owen
post Jun 24 2007, 01:28 AM
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Yeah, I know, its just finding a place and time to do some jamming.


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Ryan
post Jun 26 2007, 04:19 PM
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I wish i could find a band rolleyes.gif



offtopic dont mind me!!


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