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> Improving Recording Tone Quality With Vsts
Todd Simpson
post Jan 28 2013, 04:41 AM
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Some fine tips and some great progress on your tone!!! Keep experimenting and keep the samples coming!

Todd

QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Jan 27 2013, 02:56 AM) *
Thanks man, this is helping a lot.

First thing I would do is crank up the mids on your amp plugin to at least 7 or 8. That's what you will need in order for your guitars to cut through in a mix.

Secondly, take out the Xcita plugin for now. It's not necessary to get a great tone, and in my experience you need to start small, get a great tone, then slowly add in things rather than throwing a bunch of plugins on at once and trying to get them all to work together.

Next, turn the volume on the tube screamer plugin to FULL. If it's too loud control your volume elsewhere (your track volume, input level etc). This will give you more dynamics and clarity.

Now, for your EQ plugins you should be using ONE EQ plugin and ONLY ONE EQ plugin on your guitar tracks for now. You should open ONE instance of ReaEQ and it should look more like this:



Start there, simple and straight forward. The way you've EQ'd things is not effective at all. Large cuts and boosts are NOT what you should be doing, especially if you're not very well educated with EQ and recording basics. Some engineers still prefer to do larger cuts and boosts, but these are people who are very well educated and chose this method over the more conventional method of isolating smaller areas to EQ.

Another tip is if you find that there's a frequency you don't like but can't put your finger on it, make a really small Q (area that the EQ point will effect) and boost it as high as you can. Slowly sweep through the whole frequency range until you find the frequency you don't like, then cut it out. You would think that if your tone is just "meh" that a small modification might not do much, but it can do an incredible amount. A small cut like that can bring clarity to muddy guitars, widen up narrow sounding instruments, even fatten up thin sounding instruments.

Lastly, I would pick an impulse that is NOT in the center of the speaker. I almost never see people record with the mic on the dead center of the speaker. Try an impulse that's On Axis, about half way between the cone and the edge of the speaker. Dead center will give you a heck of a lot of harshness. Here's a general reference guide:



Now, you can pretty much get any tone you want with an impulse on a V30 speaker with a 57 half way between the cone and edge of the speaker on axis. The rest can be done with amp and EQ settings really. You'd be surprised how much flexibility you have when you know a lot about EQing and mixing distorted guitars! biggrin.gif

Anyways, hope that helps!



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sammetal92
post Jan 28 2013, 06:26 AM
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Thank you Connor and Tod, I'll update you guys with a sample ASAP smile.gif


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sammetal92
post Jan 28 2013, 07:45 PM
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I've experimented a little, and got a good lead tone with Connor's tips smile.gif I noticed that I liked the sound of the mic at the very edge of the cone and nowhere else, polishes the tone a lot without making it harsh.

Check it out! smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/sam-ryan-stormrage/neoclassical


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ConnorGilks
post Jan 29 2013, 06:03 AM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jan 28 2013, 06:45 PM) *
I've experimented a little, and got a good lead tone with Connor's tips smile.gif I noticed that I liked the sound of the mic at the very edge of the cone and nowhere else, polishes the tone a lot without making it harsh.

Check it out! smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/sam-ryan-stormrage/neoclassical


Sounds great buddy! Keep it up!!

Another tip I wanted to throw in is to use an impulse closer to the middle of the speaker, as I suggested before, and then take your Low Pass filter (Remember, Low Pass mean THE LOWS PASS THROUGH, so we're really talking about the EQ that affects the highs) and pull it down a bit more to cut out more of the high end. You'll find a sweet spot where the harshness is gone, and it's really polished, but by using an impulse a bit further from the edge you'll get more "life" in the midrange and the lows. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by ConnorGilks: Jan 29 2013, 06:04 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 29 2013, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jan 28 2013, 03:45 PM) *
I've experimented a little, and got a good lead tone with Connor's tips smile.gif I noticed that I liked the sound of the mic at the very edge of the cone and nowhere else, polishes the tone a lot without making it harsh.

Check it out! smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/sam-ryan-stormrage/neoclassical


Wou Sam! You tone is improving everyday!! and let me say that Connor's posts are brilliant. Thanks for sharing all that info!
Have you ever used a multi-band compressor for electric guitar?


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sammetal92
post Jan 29 2013, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 29 2013, 01:26 PM) *
Wou Sam! You tone is improving everyday!! and let me say that Connor's posts are brilliant. Thanks for sharing all that info!
Have you ever used a multi-band compressor for electric guitar?


Me? Nah, I want to learn how compressors work so I can use them but I think compressors don't have anything to do with metal guitar (especially extreme metal genres, which I love) cause they turn the volume down. I don't know though


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ConnorGilks
post Jan 29 2013, 11:56 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jan 29 2013, 02:26 PM) *
Me? Nah, I want to learn how compressors work so I can use them but I think compressors don't have anything to do with metal guitar (especially extreme metal genres, which I love) cause they turn the volume down. I don't know though


Compressors turn down the volume because that's their job, is to take the loud parts and make them quieter, and take the quiet parts and make them louder. When you use a compressor you need to compensate by raising the volume level again. It's all part of the process. They're great for every genre to make something sit better in the mix (more consistent volume throughout the whole song) and to make something pump a bit more as well (the attack is loud and uncompressed, then the compression kicks in after the initial attack to smooth it out, but still keeping it dynamic).

Gabriel: I appreciate the kind words man! I am no master myself though, my mixes are quite basic... but my band's EP is sounding excellent so far! My best production yet! It's all about learning and moving forward! biggrin.gif

Multi-band compressors are something I haven't messed with extensively... I do use a multi-band compressor if I feel there's some bass frequencies clashing and building up, so that instead of using an EQ to remove the build up of bass, I try to control it with a multi-band compressor.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jan 30 2013, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Jan 29 2013, 10:56 PM) *
Compressors turn down the volume because that's their job, is to take the loud parts and make them quieter, and take the quiet parts and make them louder. When you use a compressor you need to compensate by raising the volume level again. It's all part of the process. They're great for every genre to make something sit better in the mix (more consistent volume throughout the whole song) and to make something pump a bit more as well (the attack is loud and uncompressed, then the compression kicks in after the initial attack to smooth it out, but still keeping it dynamic).


Nicely put - in brief a compressor is normally used to suppress dynamic range and soetimes to limit the peak output of a track. They can however also be used artisitcally on an instrument or in a mix to, for instance, wave form shape, groove and so on.

It's also worth remembering that every make/model of compressor has its own sound. A VCA comp is very different to an optical or a vari-mu and different VCAs
(for instance) will all sound different. That's one reason why a pro mixing studio will have a number of different compressors in their racks. Often the best way of learning how to use a comp is to take one which only has very basic controls and play with it to see what it does and what the controls do.

QUOTE
Multi-band compressors are something I haven't messed with extensively... I do use a multi-band compressor if I feel there's some bass frequencies clashing and building up, so that instead of using an EQ to remove the build up of bass, I try to control it with a multi-band compressor.


Be careful with multi/split bands as they can be a quick way to butcher a mix. At mixing you have the stems/tracks and you are almost always better of using a broadband compressor, with or without sidechaining. A lot of people think us mastering engineers use MBCs routinely on the main mix. Most of us hwever use them only very occassionally and for very specific reasons and with a great deal of care. I think last year I used ours less than 5% of the times I used any of our broadband mastering compressors.

This post has been edited by tonymiro: Jan 30 2013, 11:28 AM


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osiris
post Jan 30 2013, 12:34 PM
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I suck at compressors but I posted a beginner's guide on my blog: http://www.osirisguitar.com/how-to-use-a-c...at-power-comes/


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 30 2013, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jan 30 2013, 07:23 AM) *
Nicely put - in brief a compressor is normally used to suppress dynamic range and soetimes to limit the peak output of a track. They can however also be used artisitcally on an instrument or in a mix to, for instance, wave form shape, groove and so on.

It's also worth remembering that every make/model of compressor has its own sound. A VCA comp is very different to an optical or a vari-mu and different VCAs
(for instance) will all sound different. That's one reason why a pro mixing studio will have a number of different compressors in their racks. Often the best way of learning how to use a comp is to take one which only has very basic controls and play with it to see what it does and what the controls do.



Be careful with multi/split bands as they can be a quick way to butcher a mix. At mixing you have the stems/tracks and you are almost always better of using a broadband compressor, with or without sidechaining. A lot of people think us mastering engineers use MBCs routinely on the main mix. Most of us hwever use them only very occassionally and for very specific reasons and with a great deal of care. I think last year I used ours less than 5% of the times I used any of our broadband mastering compressors.



Tony is here! smile.gif Thanks for clarifying mate. I'm really surprised of knowing that you are not using multiband compressor for mastering. I was one of those thinking that it was part of the routine.


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ConnorGilks
post Jan 31 2013, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jan 30 2013, 10:23 AM) *
Nicely put - in brief a compressor is normally used to suppress dynamic range and soetimes to limit the peak output of a track. They can however also be used artisitcally on an instrument or in a mix to, for instance, wave form shape, groove and so on.

It's also worth remembering that every make/model of compressor has its own sound. A VCA comp is very different to an optical or a vari-mu and different VCAs
(for instance) will all sound different. That's one reason why a pro mixing studio will have a number of different compressors in their racks. Often the best way of learning how to use a comp is to take one which only has very basic controls and play with it to see what it does and what the controls do.


Be careful with multi/split bands as they can be a quick way to butcher a mix. At mixing you have the stems/tracks and you are almost always better of using a broadband compressor, with or without sidechaining. A lot of people think us mastering engineers use MBCs routinely on the main mix. Most of us hwever use them only very occassionally and for very specific reasons and with a great deal of care. I think last year I used ours less than 5% of the times I used any of our broadband mastering compressors.


Great stuff! smile.gif

I should also add that because sometimes it's hard to "hear" what a compressor is doing, while messing around with the controls keep an eye on the output meter (not to be confused the the input meter in your DAW, unless your compressor is before your computer in your signal chain... anyways laugh.gif ) to visually comprehend what's going on. Whenever you're doing this though, you should try to here it as well. A great way to develop your ear is having someone tell you what's happening or to see it visually, and then try to hear it. Sometimes it's easier to have someone point it out to you so you know what you're listening for.

This post has been edited by ConnorGilks: Jan 31 2013, 12:42 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 31 2013, 05:08 AM
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yet more fine tips from Connor! And good idea to explain "LOW PASS". We often used jargon and don't realize. Likewise HIGHPASS lets the HIGHS PASS THROUGH. If you don't hear the "HARSHNESS" that Connor is talking about, try to listen on as many things as you can. E.G car stereo, home stereo, headphones, ear buds, etc. Just to get an idea of how the sound will translate on different systems and maybe to hear things you are not hearing in your primary mix location.

What are you mixing on BTW? Headphones? Monitors? All of which will have it's own impact smile.gif

The good news is your getting better at this stuff every single day!


Too




QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Jan 29 2013, 12:03 AM) *
Sounds great buddy! Keep it up!!

Another tip I wanted to throw in is to use an impulse closer to the middle of the speaker, as I suggested before, and then take your Low Pass filter (Remember, Low Pass mean THE LOWS PASS THROUGH, so we're really talking about the EQ that affects the highs) and pull it down a bit more to cut out more of the high end. You'll find a sweet spot where the harshness is gone, and it's really polished, but by using an impulse a bit further from the edge you'll get more "life" in the midrange and the lows. biggrin.gif



EGAD!!!!! Had to respond on this, IMHO COMPRESSOR ARE CRUCIAL TO METAL GUITAR!!!! They are the secret sauce used to even out palm mute chugs and even to allow lighter strikes during lead passages. All of my presets for emulators that I share here on GMC have at least 1 compressor. Same for my multi effect pedal patches in the hardware world. I know it seems like just more complication but it's really worth it. Connor is spot on here.

Todd

QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jan 29 2013, 09:26 AM) *
Me? Nah, I want to learn how compressors work so I can use them but I think compressors don't have anything to do with metal guitar (especially extreme metal genres, which I love) cause they turn the volume down. I don't know though



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sammetal92
post Jan 31 2013, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 31 2013, 04:08 AM) *
yet more fine tips from Connor! And good idea to explain "LOW PASS". We often used jargon and don't realize. Likewise HIGHPASS lets the HIGHS PASS THROUGH. If you don't hear the "HARSHNESS" that Connor is talking about, try to listen on as many things as you can. E.G car stereo, home stereo, headphones, ear buds, etc. Just to get an idea of how the sound will translate on different systems and maybe to hear things you are not hearing in your primary mix location.

What are you mixing on BTW? Headphones? Monitors? All of which will have it's own impact smile.gif

The good news is your getting better at this stuff every single day!


I'll do that smile.gif I'm using headphones and my PC's surround speakers mostly, nothing special about that I guess mellow.gif


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 31 2013, 04:08 AM) *
EGAD!!!!! Had to respond on this, IMHO COMPRESSOR ARE CRUCIAL TO METAL GUITAR!!!! They are the secret sauce used to even out palm mute chugs and even to allow lighter strikes during lead passages. All of my presets for emulators that I share here on GMC have at least 1 compressor. Same for my multi effect pedal patches in the hardware world. I know it seems like just more complication but it's really worth it. Connor is spot on here.

Todd


Didn't know that ohmy.gif I'll learn using compressors then smile.gif I already know what control does what from osiris' article, so now just gotta experiment.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jan 31 2013, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 30 2013, 12:58 PM) *
Tony is here! smile.gif Thanks for clarifying mate. I'm really surprised of knowing that you are not using multiband compressor for mastering. I was one of those thinking that it was part of the routine.


I do use a MBC/splitband very occassionally in mastering Gab. Just not very often. I think that I used ours probably in 10 sessions last year compared with using our main broadband comp several 100 times. I think that there's a bit of a myth that an MBC is a 'secret weapon' used by mastering engineers all the time. I've certainly seen a lot of software vst manufacturers say this. In my experience it's just not true as the majority of us tend to use (hgh quality) broadband compressors far, far more regularly. Ultimately though there isn't a routine set up that you always use as you choose what is most appropriate for the session. Having said that most sessions benefit from MP EQ and broadband compression. That's the reason why we keep several mastering eqs and compressors in our main mastering router chains and why they sit in the main racks whilst the MBC and other stuff is only brought in when needed.

QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Jan 30 2013, 11:41 PM) *
...

I should also add that because sometimes it's hard to "hear" what a compressor is doing, .... so you know what you're listening for.


Very true Conner. One of the things I suggest is that peope play with the comp on quite extreme ratio and threshold settings on different material and instruments so that they get to hear more clearly what that is doing. Once they get used to that then do the same with attack and release etc. IF you don't know what a comp 'sounds' like then you might not notice what subtle adjustments do. You have to get used to hearing what the comp does.

In mastering most of the use of a comp by the way is subtle (fractional ratios etc), a lot of very good mixing comps are too heavy handed for what we do and mix monitors tend to lack sufficient detail for us to really be able to pull out sufficient detail to do the adjustments. One of the on-going issues with the use of MBCs in 'bedroom masters' is that they are used with too heavy a hand only to get more level.


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ConnorGilks
post Feb 6 2013, 03:27 AM
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Any progress been made here? I found doing a broad cut between 200Hz-500Hz gave it a lot more clarity and cleaned up the tone, and another between 600Hz-800Hz helped liven up the tone and make it sound less flat, really gave it some air.


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sammetal92
post Feb 6 2013, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Feb 6 2013, 02:27 AM) *
Any progress been made here? I found doing a broad cut between 200Hz-500Hz gave it a lot more clarity and cleaned up the tone, and another between 600Hz-800Hz helped liven up the tone and make it sound less flat, really gave it some air.


Yeah I'm still experimenting, though not as much, sorry my university takes most of my time these days dry.gif


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Jonas Tamas
post Feb 6 2013, 04:22 PM
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I recommend using a BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin. It is basically a special compressor/limiter plugin, but it shapes the sound like magic. It is able to create a great sound from a mediocre input.

You can listen to the tone possibilites here, this is one of my improvisations using BBE Sonic Maximizer:

http://soundcloud.com/jonas-tamas/melodic-guitar-improvisation


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ConnorGilks
post Feb 6 2013, 10:24 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Feb 6 2013, 02:46 PM) *
Yeah I'm still experimenting, though not as much, sorry my university takes most of my time these days dry.gif


Didn't mean to bug you, just liked seeing your progress and how quickly it was coming along! biggrin.gif


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sammetal92
post Feb 7 2013, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (Jonas Tamas @ Feb 6 2013, 03:22 PM) *
I recommend using a BBE Sonic Maximizer plugin. It is basically a special compressor/limiter plugin, but it shapes the sound like magic. It is able to create a great sound from a mediocre input.

You can listen to the tone possibilites here, this is one of my improvisations using BBE Sonic Maximizer:

http://soundcloud.com/jonas-tamas/melodic-guitar-improvisation


That sounds pretty cool, I'm gonna try it smile.gif thanks! biggrin.gif

QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Feb 6 2013, 09:24 PM) *
Didn't mean to bug you, just liked seeing your progress and how quickly it was coming along! biggrin.gif


No noo you didn't bug me at all, sorry if I said it like that, university's bugging me tongue.gif


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Jonas Tamas
post Feb 7 2013, 09:01 AM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Feb 7 2013, 07:56 AM) *
That sounds pretty cool, I'm gonna try it smile.gif thanks! biggrin.gif


You're welcome. If you need my tips and/or settings regarding BBE, just let me know.


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