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> Well How About An Ask The Winder Thread.
MHD Pickups
post Feb 1 2013, 05:25 AM
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I started one of these over at another board and it is going pretty well. I am pretty knowlidgeable on most the tech side of winding however I wind more from an artists side of things. I will answer any question even if it pertains to others pups. I love other winders and have spoken with many of them. I will not give out any of their secrets, so do not ask. Just thought this might be kind of cool here because well you guys seem into the whys and hows of things.


I will go through things like magnets, DC Vs Wire type vs TPL etc..... Maybe go into the misconceptions that DC = output when it has zero bearing on it. Why we as winders use different mags and the proper way to do a mag swap, and any other questions you may have. So lets start with wire.

Lesson in Wire.

When we winders by wire it is usually min/nom which means for say 43 wire it can range from .0028- .0031. what that means is when winding we set the tension for x and when y comes in the tension is a bit greater and causes the wire to be stretched just a bit more so your DC will change. The best and most accurate way is to measure wire distance coming directly off the spool. Unfortunately I rely on turn count. I am getting a length counter soon.

Also wire changes from batch to batch. Newer 42 used to be close to .173 ohms a foot and now is .187 so same turn count can change a 5000 turn bobbin by as much as .6 ohms, which doubled can add 1.2k to a pickup, but the tone remains the same. Does this make any sense.

I prefer to use Plain Enamel wire for about 95% of what i do. Others like Duncan, Dimarzio and a few other of the cheaper manufacturers prefer to use poly coated wire. The big 2 use it with great success, for me I prefer the richer sound of the plain enamel.

Poly tends to lend itself to more of a trebly feel and some feel a tighter bottom end. For me this just aint so. It is a much cheaper wire to buy and can and does sound great for the proper applications just like any wire and coil design.

Plain enamel for me and my style has more pronounced mids and tighter bottom end, cleans up well without getting ice picky. Besides the dark purple just looks sexy in a open face single coil.

Formvar-- Ah yes the wire of your. Great for reproducing some of the early 60 Strat tones, very clear and crisp but pay attention to turn count because it can get pretty nasty pretty quik.

42 wire. Standard for most pickups up in to the 9k dc range. Lends itself to be very open and clear.

43 wire tends to have a better bass response used for higher dc pickups because of its size. Used a lot for bass pickups and Tele neck pickups.


A bit more later on. Feel free to ask questions. .


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DC DOES NOT EQUAL OUTPUT. Dc is a resistance value and that is all. It WILL NOT tell you what it will sound like, it WILL NOT make you sound like another player.
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vonhotch
post Feb 1 2013, 03:35 PM
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Hey, I am building a guitar and was thinking about trying to wind my own pickups for the first time. I wanted to mess around with neodymium magnets. Do you have any opinion on using them? I have not decided on wire gauge or number of turns or resistance yet. I have read something about more resistance to help with some of the "brittleness" in tone with more powerful magnets (that might not be the right word.) But my plan was to use wooden bobbins (Do you think bobbin material makes a difference?) with a 1/8" steel rail, wax pot then seal in epoxy. My little bit of research into magnets says neodymium magnets have about 10x the energy (Br) of ceramic per volume. So if I use 1/10 the size neo magnets will that be the right size. Does my math make sense? Sorry for all the questions all at once. Any opinion you have on my ideas here will help me determine whether I should try this or just buy some. Thanks smile.gif


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MHD Pickups
post Feb 2 2013, 05:11 AM
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I love neo mags in pckups. There is a guy around that is doing them with great success. Let me see if I can get ahold of him and you can speak direct with him on the hows and whys. I do not offer them and have not played with them yet. Yes hey have much more pull than a standard Alinico mag, I am working with ductile steel for slugs. It can amplifie the strength of an Alnico mag and hold a charge. Some friends of mine actually have had great success with Tattoo machines. With the intro of ductile Iron they found the machines hit harder and a more focused current.


I say go for it. When the time comes let me know and I can walk you through building a very easy and cheap winder as well as some of the materials.


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DC DOES NOT EQUAL OUTPUT. Dc is a resistance value and that is all. It WILL NOT tell you what it will sound like, it WILL NOT make you sound like another player.
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PosterBoy
post Feb 2 2013, 03:00 PM
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This question is more about pick up set up and not the making of.

What would you recommend as a starting point for pickup height for different types of pick up and how do you adjust from there to alter the tone to what you want.


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vonhotch
post Feb 2 2013, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (MHD Pickups @ Feb 2 2013, 04:11 AM) *
I love neo mags in pckups. There is a guy around that is doing them with great success. Let me see if I can get ahold of him and you can speak direct with him on the hows and whys. I do not offer them and have not played with them yet. Yes hey have much more pull than a standard Alinico mag, I am working with ductile steel for slugs. It can amplifie the strength of an Alnico mag and hold a charge. Some friends of mine actually have had great success with Tattoo machines. With the intro of ductile Iron they found the machines hit harder and a more focused current.


I say go for it. When the time comes let me know and I can walk you through building a very easy and cheap winder as well as some of the materials.

Awesome! I will give it a shot then. I actually scored a motor off a bed frame, one of those beds that is adjustable and tilts up and down, to build a winder out of. It spins both ways and has a remote to operate it which ever way, I saw it and thought it would be perfect. Somebody was throwing it away, so I got it for free. But I have not tried to put a winder together yet, so hopefully I will start this in a couple weeks and be in touch! Thanks!!!!! I checked out your website the other day, too. Cool stuff, do you do anything with 7 or 8 string pickups?


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ConnorGilks
post Feb 3 2013, 08:07 AM
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There's a lot of arguments over coil splitting vs coil tapping, perhaps you can clarify!

A lot of people (or guitars, rather) have coil splitting (using a switch, push-pull pot, push-push pot etc.) to take a humbucker and make it a single coil by removing the other coil in the humbucker.

What about coil tapping? For this example it's easier to think of this as if we're talking about a single coil pickup. My understanding is that coil tapping removes part of the winding from a wound pickup, therefore lowering the over output of the pickup. First off, is this accurate? Secondly, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone putting this to use! Does it work? Is it effective?


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MHD Pickups
post Feb 4 2013, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ Feb 3 2013, 07:07 AM) *
There's a lot of arguments over coil splitting vs coil tapping, perhaps you can clarify!

A lot of people (or guitars, rather) have coil splitting (using a switch, push-pull pot, push-push pot etc.) to take a humbucker and make it a single coil by removing the other coil in the humbucker.

What about coil tapping? For this example it's easier to think of this as if we're talking about a single coil pickup. My understanding is that coil tapping removes part of the winding from a wound pickup, therefore lowering the over output of the pickup. First off, is this accurate? Secondly, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone putting this to use! Does it work? Is it effective?

Okay coil tapping is just that you are pulling from both coils but pending which coil is set for the dominant one will depend on which coil is being tapped.

Example 16.8 k pickup with off set coils 1 coil will read 8.6 k while the other reads in at 8.1k Now in a split scenerio you will have a reading or should have of 8.6k and with a tapped pickup you should end up with the 8.6k plus a portion of the second coil.


For me IO prefer to tap rather than split. You end up with more of a noisless single tone because you are still drawing from both coils.

QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Feb 2 2013, 02:00 PM) *
This question is more about pick up set up and not the making of.

What would you recommend as a starting point for pickup height for different types of pick up and how do you adjust from there to alter the tone to what you want.



I use an 1/8 inch allen key to set the start height. For me higher output pups need to be dropped a bit more. It more often then not gives you a broader tonal spectrum . For lower DC stuff I tend to leave it at the 1/8th inch.

Now necks are a bit touchier. I tend to start even with the ring and go from there. An a5 might want to go down a bit and an A2 might get clearer by raising it a turn.


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https://www.facebook.com/mhd.pickups

DC DOES NOT EQUAL OUTPUT. Dc is a resistance value and that is all. It WILL NOT tell you what it will sound like, it WILL NOT make you sound like another player.
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