Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Best Lessons?, Give a recovering Guitar Player some help...
Anastasio123
post Jun 25 2007, 10:19 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 164
Joined: 17-March 07
Member No.: 1.365



Well im going to be recovering from surgery for the next 10 days and what a better way to pass the time than guitar!!! However, I need some help, there's obviously a ton of great lessons out there and after I finish Wallimans Dorian Licks lesson I really don't know where to start.

So give some ideas!!!

If your interested post some of your favorite (and most useful) lessons and just a brief explanation of what they'll help me with in my playing IE: "Legato Etude Lesson"-Legato ofcourse!!!

Thanks wink.gif

PS: If any theory buffs get a hold of this PLEASE hlp me out...I want to creat a backing track to practice using the G Dorian to expand on the ideas Walliman taught me in his "G Dorian Fusion Licks" lesson, but I'm a bit confused...Would my chord progression be in the key of G(since its a G dorian scale im going to use to improvise) or a chord progression in the key of FMaj (because isn't G dorian the second mode of a F major scale?) I hate to throw in a theoryquestion like this but Im riding on the fact that it'll only require a brief explantion. If not, someone tell me so I can repost this in the theory board for serious discussion...

Once again! Cheers! rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif wink.gif smile.gif


--------------------
IPB Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 25 2007, 10:32 PM
Post #2


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Anastasio123 @ Jun 25 2007, 05:19 PM) *
Well im going to be recovering from surgery for the next 10 days and what a better way to pass the time than guitar!!! However, I need some help, there's obviously a ton of great lessons out there and after I finish Wallimans Dorian Licks lesson I really don't know where to start.

So give some ideas!!!

If your interested post some of your favorite (and most useful) lessons and just a brief explanation of what they'll help me with in my playing IE: "Legato Etude Lesson"-Legato ofcourse!!!

Thanks wink.gif

PS: If any theory buffs get a hold of this PLEASE hlp me out...I want to creat a backing track to practice using the G Dorian to expand on the ideas Walliman taught me in his "G Dorian Fusion Licks" lesson, but I'm a bit confused...Would my chord progression be in the key of G(since its a G dorian scale im going to use to improvise) or a chord progression in the key of FMaj (because isn't G dorian the second mode of a F major scale?) I hate to throw in a theoryquestion like this but Im riding on the fact that it'll only require a brief explantion. If not, someone tell me so I can repost this in the theory board for serious discussion...

Once again! Cheers! rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif wink.gif smile.gif


Ok, here's the theory bit:

To create a Dorian progression, you need to start with chords in the key of the scale - in this case G. BUT, you will have the choice of identical chords to the Fmajor scale as they share notes and chords. But just as you move up the scale one step, you would also move up the list of chords one step.

So, FMajor chords are F, Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim

G dorian chords are Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim, F

Now the order isn't important as you will be picking chords from the same list, the important thing is that you make Gm7 your tonic, or "home" chord - and that will get you a Dorian progression.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DeepRoots
post Jun 25 2007, 10:38 PM
Post #3


Get to da Chopper!
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.700
Joined: 18-March 07
From: South Wales, UK
Member No.: 1.374



Hey for the G Dorian thing- <Im no genius but ill give it a shot>

F Ionian (major) - F G A A# C D E (F)

G Dorian- G A A# C D E F (G)

<so it's the same notes as F Major>

So Just pick your chords from that- if you're going for a I-IV-V it'd be G C D

If what i think ive lerned here at GMC is accurate- that should just about be it- can anyone confirm this for me? Id like to here that im doing things right---

DeepRoots


Dammit Andrew is a faster typer than I.....lol
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 25 2007, 10:42 PM
Post #4


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Jun 25 2007, 05:38 PM) *
Hey for the G Dorian thing- <Im no genius but ill give it a shot>

F Ionian (major) - F G A A# C D E (F)

G Dorian- G A A# C D E F (G)

<so it's the same notes as F Major>

So Just pick your chords from that- if you're going for a I-IV-V it'd be G C D

If what i think ive lerned here at GMC is accurate- that should just about be it- can anyone confirm this for me? Id like to here that im doing things right---

DeepRoots
Dammit Andrew is a faster typer than I.....lol


laugh.gif - a couple of slight corrections but essentially correct. Since F has a key signature composed of flats we would use Bb instead of A#, although they are the same note.

Secondly, although you are right about the chords, its important to qualify them as Major vs Minor - Dorian is a minor scale because of its flattened 3rd, and that is reflected in the fact that the I chord would be G minor (or G minor7 would also work). The C would be major, and the D would also be minor. Apart from that you are right smile.gif

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Jun 25 2007, 10:43 PM


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Jun 25 2007, 11:01 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 25 2007, 04:42 PM) *
laugh.gif - a couple of slight corrections but essentially correct. Since F has a key signature composed of flats we would use Bb instead of A#, although they are the same note.

Secondly, although you are right about the chords, its important to qualify them as Major vs Minor - Dorian is a minor scale because of its flattened 3rd, and that is reflected in the fact that the I chord would be G minor (or G minor7 would also work). The C would be major, and the D would also be minor. Apart from that you are right smile.gif


Andrew, I was looking at your theory stuff, and do intend to work through all that at some point. But you know what would be kind of cool? If for each of the modes or scales you mention in your lessons, you had simple audio clip that captured the basic flavor of it. You know, as Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music captured the basic flavor of the major scale with Do, a deer, a female dear, re a golden drop of sun....etc. etc. I am not saying you need to put on liederhosen and and hike through the alps singing all this. Just something simple for each to demonstrate the basic flavor of it. I think some of these will sound a bit like music from the original star trek series, but I would like to hear them.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 25 2007, 11:02 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 25 2007, 11:15 PM
Post #6


GMC Founder & Rocker
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.089
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 2



As a next lesson - I definately think you should check out today's phrasing lesson (see main page).

Try to grasp whatever information you can get out of this one - vibrato will be essential for almost anything you will do on the guitar! smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 25 2007, 11:23 PM
Post #7


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 25 2007, 06:01 PM) *
Andrew, I was looking at your theory stuff, and do intend to work through all that at some point. But you know what would be kind of cool? If for each of the modes or scales you mention in your lessons, you had simple audio clip that captured the basic flavor of it. You know, as Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music captured the basic flavor of the major scale with Do, a deer, a female dear, re a golden drop of sun....etc. etc. I am not saying you need to put on liederhosen and and hike through the alps singing all this. Just something simple for each to demonstrate the basic flavor of it. I think some of these will sound a bit like music from the original star trek series, but I would like to hear them.


I totally agree with you - theory on its own is very dry, and something as important as modes and scales deserve to be heard, it would add a lot to the lessons.

So, since you asked I am going to implement a short term tactical solution, and hint vaguely at the long term strategic GMC solution ...

So, I'll go and record clips for the exotic scale lessons I just wrote, and when I do the modes in depth I will record clips as well.

Longer term there is a solution in the works that will address this very issue in an extremely elegant way, but I can't give you any details just yet smile.gif


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Jun 25 2007, 11:39 PM
Post #8


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 25 2007, 05:15 PM) *
As a next lesson - I definately think you should check out today's phrasing lesson (see main page).

Try to grasp whatever information you can get out of this one - vibrato will be essential for almost anything you will do on the guitar! smile.gif


i agree with you Kris, when i took up guitar again last november, that was the one thing i retained from way back when. and i noticed that a lot of players really had not developed a good vibrato. it is good that you are impressing your students with the importance of this item.

one thing about it (and Andrew could explain this) is that the even temperament scale only approximates the perfect intervals. it comes pretty close on major 4ths and 5ths, but not so close on some others. When you use a vibrato, you will invariably capture the true note in perfect pitch, somewhere within the sweep of your vibrato. that is why it sings like it does when done well.

edit: i will add that classical singers are trained to use vibrato. it is pretty hard to hit perfect pitch, even for the best singers, all the time. if they use vibrato, they are probably going to hit that pitch somewhere within the sweep of the vibrato. this same principle can be applied to guitar, for the reason described above, and also when bending notes.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 25 2007, 11:44 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 25 2007, 11:42 PM
Post #9


GMC Founder & Rocker
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.089
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 26 2007, 12:39 AM) *
one thing about it (and Andrew could explain this) is that the even temperament scale only approximates the perfect intervals. it comes pretty close on major 4ths and 5ths, but not so close on some others. When you use a vibrato, you will invariably capture the true note in perfect pitch, somewhere within the sweep of your vibrato. that is why it sings like it does when done well.


Yes that's right - and it also why the guitar (which is completely impossible to tune correctly all over the fretboard) almost can't sound good without vibrato...! smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 26 2007, 12:07 AM
Post #10


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 25 2007, 06:23 PM) *
So, I'll go and record clips for the exotic scale lessons I just wrote, and when I do the modes in depth I will record clips as well.



Ok, the clips are up for the 3 exotic scale lessons ...


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MickeM
post Jun 26 2007, 10:34 AM
Post #11


Born of NWOBHM, Moderation Team Leader
*

Group: Members
Posts: 8.562
Joined: 9-January 07
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 1.062



QUOTE (Anastasio123 @ Jun 25 2007, 11:19 PM) *
Well im going to be recovering from surgery for the next 10 days and what a better way to pass the time than guitar!!! However, I need some help, there's obviously a ton of great lessons out there and after I finish Wallimans Dorian Licks lesson I really don't know where to start.

So give some ideas!!!

If your interested post some of your favorite (and most useful) lessons and just a brief explanation of what they'll help me with in my playing IE: "Legato Etude Lesson"-Legato ofcourse!!!

Any of Kris's 101 lessons.

Lately I've spend time on Lavendells Neoclassical three level lesson. You know it's sooo much in there if you work for perfection on everything from clean notes to vibrato. When you have it clean and perfect on beginners you have to start over in Intermediate, when you nail it you move to expert and work for clean notes etc.

Pavels Luca Turilli lessons is next for me.

Helps getting useful and fast patterns down. Improves speed, left and right hand.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anastasio123
post Jun 27 2007, 06:00 AM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 164
Joined: 17-March 07
Member No.: 1.365



QUOTE (MickeM @ Jun 26 2007, 05:34 AM) *
Any of Kris's 101 lessons.

Lately I've spend time on Lavendells Neoclassical three level lesson. You know it's sooo much in there if you work for perfection on everything from clean notes to vibrato. When you have it clean and perfect on beginners you have to start over in Intermediate, when you nail it you move to expert and work for clean notes etc.

Pavels Luca Turilli lessons is next for me.

Helps getting useful and fast patterns down. Improves speed, left and right hand.


yea ive done the luca turilli one allready i just havnt gotten it quite up to speed with Pavel. It definitely is a great work out for left and right hand tequnique i have to agree. Iv got the intermediate version of lavendells three part series down so i guess ill give the advanced one a try.

PS: Thanks to everbody who helped answer my little theory question. I read through all the posts and you guys really surpassed my expectations in the help. Thanks!!

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 25 2007, 05:32 PM) *
Ok, here's the theory bit:

To create a Dorian progression, you need to start with chords in the key of the scale - in this case G. BUT, you will have the choice of identical chords to the Fmajor scale as they share notes and chords. But just as you move up the scale one step, you would also move up the list of chords one step.

So, FMajor chords are F, Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim

G dorian chords are Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim, F

Now the order isn't important as you will be picking chords from the same list, the important thing is that you make Gm7 your tonic, or "home" chord - and that will get you a Dorian progression.


Wow thanks andrew you really gave me some insight into this. Being that the G Dorian scale has a minor seventh feel to it, I felt like I overlooked the fact that a Gm7 or Gm chord would work perfectly for it.

I was also wondering how you figure out all those diatonic chords ie"So, FMajor chords are F, Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim... G dorian chords are Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim, F"...Is there a lesson in your theory board where I caqn figure out how to find those chords on my own? Is that stuff what CAGED is for?

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 25 2007, 06:15 PM) *
As a next lesson - I definately think you should check out today's phrasing lesson (see main page).

Try to grasp whatever information you can get out of this one - vibrato will be essential for almost anything you will do on the guitar! smile.gif


Yea, vibrato is a techinique i havnt looked into too deeply in comparison to all the other great technioques of guitar. So thanks I'm excited to try that one out.


--------------------
IPB Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 27 2007, 02:03 PM
Post #13


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Anastasio123 @ Jun 27 2007, 01:00 AM) *
I was also wondering how you figure out all those diatonic chords ie"So, FMajor chords are F, Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim... G dorian chords are Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim, F"...Is there a lesson in your theory board where I caqn figure out how to find those chords on my own?


No not CAGED, but there is a lesson on it here!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Scott Gentzen
post Jun 27 2007, 05:13 PM
Post #14


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 683
Joined: 16-January 07
From: Centreville, VA, USA
Member No.: 1.080



QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 25 2007, 09:32 PM) *
Ok, here's the theory bit:

To create a Dorian progression, you need to start with chords in the key of the scale - in this case G. BUT, you will have the choice of identical chords to the Fmajor scale as they share notes and chords. But just as you move up the scale one step, you would also move up the list of chords one step.

So, FMajor chords are F, Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim

G dorian chords are Gm7, Am7, Bb, C, Dm, Edim, F

Now the order isn't important as you will be picking chords from the same list, the important thing is that you make Gm7 your tonic, or "home" chord - and that will get you a Dorian progression.


Some day this is going to not make my head hurt. Today is not that day though.


--------------------
Guitars: ESP Semi-Hollow Eclipse, 1984 Ibanez Roadstar RS440, Peavey T-60, Daisy Rock Rock Candy Custom
Amps: Peavey Transformer 112, Epiphone Valve Jr head with custom 2x12 cab
Pedals: Boss TU-2, Budda Bud-Wah, Chuck Collins Harmonic Percolator clone
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 27 2007, 05:25 PM
Post #15


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Scott Gentzen @ Jun 27 2007, 12:13 PM) *
Some day this is going to not make my head hurt. Today is not that day though.


Its only pain - play through it!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smikey2006
post Jun 27 2007, 08:19 PM
Post #16


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Wiki:er
Posts: 2.361
Joined: 27-April 07
From: London,ont
Member No.: 1.697



Id definatly have to say the lession that helped me the most was pavels control lession, string skipping definatly helped with alot of aspects of my guitar playing, it helped my sweeps and alternate picking my economy picking, speed picking and even my stretches smile.gif id recommend this lession to be added to any practice routine and great for anyone getting back into guitar smile.gif other than that i would have to say all of kris's 101 lessions, they are the backbone of this site smile.gif


--------------------
Schecter Exotic Star+ Peavey VK
Ibanez Xiphos 707 + Krank Revolution 100
Damien 7




Wishlist
Schecter Customshop
Schecter 2008 Blackjack
Damage Control Timeline Delay Pedal/Distortion
a laptop that runs protools :'(
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryan
post Jun 28 2007, 01:56 AM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.286
Joined: 14-March 07
From: Hutchinson, Kansas, USA
Member No.: 1.345



QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 25 2007, 05:42 PM) *
Yes that's right - and it also why the guitar (which is completely impossible to tune correctly all over the fretboard) almost can't sound good without vibrato...! smile.gif

Well Kris, how do you know if you have a good vibrato, or a perfect, or a ok one?? Im wondering on how my stands out. Is there certain things you must do to hit "ok", then after that its all personal preferece, becuase i guess there really isnt a perfect vibrato. But how can you tell??


--------------------
“Obey the principles without being bound by them.”
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anastasio123
post Jun 28 2007, 02:40 AM
Post #18


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 164
Joined: 17-March 07
Member No.: 1.365



QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 27 2007, 09:03 AM) *
No not CAGED, but there is a lesson on it here!


Thanks Andrew, I'll be definitely reading through that in the near future.

QUOTE (Smikey2006 @ Jun 27 2007, 03:19 PM) *
Id definatly have to say the lession that helped me the most was pavels control lession, string skipping definatly helped with alot of aspects of my guitar playing, it helped my sweeps and alternate picking my economy picking, speed picking and even my stretches smile.gif id recommend this lession to be added to any practice routine and great for anyone getting back into guitar smile.gif other than that i would have to say all of kris's 101 lessions, they are the backbone of this site smile.gif


Yea I agree, the hand control lesson looks like a really good exercise for all around technique. I'll be definitely learning that one soon...


--------------------
IPB Image
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 27th March 2017 - 05:57 AM