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> Major/ Minor Pentatonic Relationship?, On 'Blue lines' lesson by Sinisa Cekics
Headbanger
post Feb 17 2013, 04:21 PM
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I was just looking at Sinisa Cekics latest lesson called 'Blue lines'...Brilliant BTW Sinisa.

And I noticed that he had used both A major and A minor pentatonic scales ' for the colour'. When studying the main page I see there was an interesting relationship to the major and minor pentatonic scales that I hadn't noticed before. The A major pentatonic being exactly the same scale pattern as the A minor pentatonic...But two frets below...That seemed like a handy discovery...But now I am left wondering how will it be useful..and is there a simpler explanation of this theory somewhere that explains the use?

I must admit..level 5 lessons are above my standard level..but I always like to look ahead to where I would like to be one day.

Can someone throw some light on this or even understand what I am saying?



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The Professor
post Feb 17 2013, 04:29 PM
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Nice observation!

You can think of it this way. If you are playing over a chord, say A7, and you want to play the minor pent sound, you start the minor pentatonic from the root. So A minor pent over A7.

If you want to put a major pent sound in there, you just play the relative minor pentatonic. So F# is the relative minor of A, so you could play F# minor to produce A major.

Basically, if you have a chord and you want to mix the major and minor sounds together, you can play the minor pent from the root or relative minor note to give you those two sounds.

Try putting on a one-chord vamp, maybe A7 and then solo between A minor and F# minor pents to hear how those sounds differ and how you can visualize them on the neck to use in future playing.


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Headbanger
post Feb 17 2013, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (The Professor @ Feb 17 2013, 04:29 PM) *
Nice observation!

You can think of it this way. If you are playing over a chord, say A7, and you want to play the minor pent sound, you start the minor pentatonic from the root. So A minor pent over A7.

If you want to put a major pent sound in there, you just play the relative minor pentatonic. So F# is the relative minor of A, so you could play F# minor to produce A major.

Basically, if you have a chord and you want to mix the major and minor sounds together, you can play the minor pent from the root or relative minor note to give you those two sounds.

Try putting on a one-chord vamp, maybe A7 and then solo between A minor and F# minor pents to hear how those sounds differ and how you can visualize them on the neck to use in future playing.


Thanks Prof..for that explanation...I'll try and do some more study around that theory. If I was improvising over A minor pentatonic for example...could I just move down two frets (to Fsharp minor/Amajor) and still sound OK or is that not a wise move. Am I concentrating on A as the route or F sharp or both...If so, what is the modal change?


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The Professor
post Feb 17 2013, 05:20 PM
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That depends on the chord you are soloing over. What is the chord you are using?


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Headbanger
post Feb 17 2013, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (The Professor @ Feb 17 2013, 05:20 PM) *
That depends on the chord you are soloing over. What is the chord you are using?


I'm not...I'm just thinking/analysing without my guitar... smile.gif
I have gone back and looked at Sinisas lesson again bearing in mind what you said and I notice the only time he seems to go to the F# minor pentatonic is when he actually plays over the F# chord.
So if I understand what you are saying...you always have to play over a chord sound in the relevant pentatonic to sound good...you can't just improvise freely using a pentatonic scale?...These are probably silly questions..but I think I need to know.(I am of a lower level).

This post has been edited by Headbanger: Feb 17 2013, 05:31 PM


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The Professor
post Feb 17 2013, 06:00 PM
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Hey, it's a bit tricky. But to start, if you have an A major or A7 chord, you could play A minor pentatonic, AND, F# minor pentatonic over those chords. Try it out and see how it sounds.


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Headbanger
post Feb 17 2013, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (The Professor @ Feb 17 2013, 06:00 PM) *
Hey, it's a bit tricky. But to start, if you have an A major or A7 chord, you could play A minor pentatonic, AND, F# minor pentatonic over those chords. Try it out and see how it sounds.


Ok...I'll try this if I can work it out! Thanks for your response.


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klasaine
post Feb 17 2013, 07:14 PM
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Great way to begin 'playing over changes'.

In a 'blues' progression ...

Major penta over the I chord.
Minor penta over the IV chord.
(same root for both)


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Headbanger
post Feb 17 2013, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 17 2013, 07:14 PM) *
Great way to begin 'playing over changes'.

In a 'blues' progression ...

Major penta over the I chord.
Minor penta over the IV chord.
(same root for both)


So..... If used An A7 and changed to a D... I and IV,
what pentatonics would I use to play over? or am I guessing wrong?


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klasaine
post Feb 17 2013, 08:54 PM
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You're thinking right.
A7 - A maj. penta.
D7 - A min. penta.

You can of course 'cross pollenate' - there are some common tones.
also, try adding the b7 (G) over the A7 chord.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 17 2013, 09:13 PM
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Interesting thread! Learning the dominant arpeggios would be also useful to follow the blues progression 7th chords. In this way you will be able to visualize which are the chord tones at each moment, so you will emphasize those notes.


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Headbanger
post Feb 17 2013, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 17 2013, 08:54 PM) *
You're thinking right.
A7 - A maj. penta.
D7 - A min. penta.

You can of course 'cross pollenate' - there are some common tones.
also, try adding the b7 (G) over the A7 chord.

Ok thanks Klasaine..Its food for thought at the moment..I'm really rusty and have only recently got back into theory (and playing)..most of the stuff I learnt (from the Guitarist mag) was many years ago and I've forgotten it or probably didn't learn it properly in the first place..Tabs take you so far then you want to get free from them to an extent...But I do appreciate your explanations as I want to try some simple improvisation.

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 17 2013, 09:13 PM) *
Interesting thread! Learning the dominant arpeggios would be also useful to follow the blues progression 7th chords. In this way you will be able to visualize which are the chord tones at each moment, so you will emphasize those notes.

Thanks Gab, that's a good idea as well ...how does this stuff link in with the cage technique?

This post has been edited by Headbanger: Feb 17 2013, 09:44 PM


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Sinisa Cekic
post Feb 17 2013, 11:00 PM
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On the first place thank you for the interest on this lesson. I have carefully read your question, and also the answers below and I think that they are, technically and theoretically, some starting point on what you can rely, for sure. I/IV/V progression has several variations and each major/ minor key combination has its own flavor. Also, such a simple progression 1,4,5, knows to get bored if you're constantly using a single scale like Minor penta,for example . Changing modes ( minor,major penta,or blues scale) when changing chords,constantly refresh each new round - keeping the listener awake until the last tone, as opposed to a predictable single scale!


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Headbanger
post Feb 18 2013, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (Sinisa Cekic @ Feb 17 2013, 11:00 PM) *
On the first place thank you for the interest on this lesson. I have carefully read your question, and also the answers below and I think that they are, technically and theoretically, some starting point on what you can rely, for sure. I/IV/V progression has several variations and each major/ minor key combination has its own flavor. Also, such a simple progression 1,4,5, knows to get bored if you're constantly using a single scale like Minor penta,for example . Changing modes ( minor,major penta,or blues scale) when changing chords,constantly refresh each new round - keeping the listener awake until the last tone, as opposed to a predictable single scale!

Thanks Sinisa...Thanks for that lesson.Your playing was very inspirational. I think its important to keep the listener excited with new sounds.


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