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> Changing Shape Of The Biz
Todd Simpson
post Feb 18 2013, 08:24 AM
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As everybody knows, the Music Industry is still in a spasmodic contraction that continues to grip it. However, in change there is always opportunity. But to take advantage of it, one must first let go of what used to the "way of things", the game has changed. The good news is, "The little guy" can compete in terms of reach, with the "big guys" in many ways. The gates are open. For example, an artist (that I'm not a fan of, but so what) named MACKLEROY who does rap/hip hop stuff, has managed to get a number 1 ranked single/album without any major label support or deal. There are more and more stories like this of artists just forging their own path. I gotta say I think it's awesome smile.gif Here is a graphic to illustrate what is happening to the industry. The value added plastic (cds/tapes) were the core of the music biz in times past, and digital pennies (mp3) are not making up for analogue dollars so the "old biz" is crumbling. This is a once in a lifetime chance for everyone to take advantage and make their own luck. smile.gif Enjoy the info graphic.

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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 18 2013, 09:41 AM
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Interesting indeed Todd, but, people are still a bit reluctant in buying music. For instance, in Romania, everyone asks: 'Hey, is this album on torrents yet? Because I want it!' it's not 'Hey, is this album out yet? Because I WANT TO BUY IT' smile.gif


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Slavenko Erazer
post Feb 18 2013, 10:23 AM
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We here in Serbia still buy that "piece of plastic" called CD...

And even there are raise of people who buy Vinyl Lps... This statistics work for USA only...I would never pay to download some music..

This post has been edited by Slavenko Erazer: Feb 18 2013, 10:24 AM
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BTrian
post Feb 18 2013, 11:05 AM
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I still buy CDs, but also downloaded some stuff that had no physical copy available (or only for ridiculous prices)

still prefer CDs for artwork and stuff you just don't get the same with only download,
some Bands are also still quite creative when it comes to CDs (remember one band that put some self made black&white photography thing in, the album booklet had like 50 empty pages with a target painted on the front with lead shot falling down when opening cause they shot every single booklet with a shotgun biggrin.gif )

would also go for vinyl if I could afford it.

Though I still listen to most of my music in digital form. Just so much easier to manage big music libraries and it's not like you need to use compressed formats anymore cause hard drives and stuff are quite affordable these days.

and what is "adult" music huh.gif
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MonkeyDAthos
post Feb 18 2013, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE (BTrian @ Feb 18 2013, 10:05 AM) *
and what is "adult" music huh.gif




i was thinking the same laugh.gif


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wollace03
post Feb 18 2013, 12:47 PM
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I always buy cd´s , too.
I am kind of old fashioned but a song alone without the cd, artwork, ... just doesn´t feel right. and I still like to listen to a whole album from beginning to end.
And for me nothing beats the feeling of holding a vinyl record in hands....

although I think the invention of the mp3 is a milestone!!!


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Slavenko Erazer
post Feb 18 2013, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (wollace03 @ Feb 18 2013, 12:47 PM) *
although I think the invention of the mp3 is a milestone!!!


mP3 IS GREAT thing for Preview of some music... if i like it, i would then buy original release...
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klasaine
post Feb 18 2013, 05:26 PM
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While I completely agree that the industry is in extreme flux I would caution against putting too much stock in those numbers.
Why? - Because when the record biz was making cash hand over fist they and all the press around the them inflated the numbers (and were accused of such - generally by the artists themselves when said artist sued for their profits).
Example: rec cos counted 'shipped' not sold units and then subtracted the 'returns' from the artists cut.
So now it's like everybody hates the trad record co. so we kick them when they're down.
In my neighborhood there are 3 stores that ONLY sell vinyl. One of the artists I regularly work for just released a new record on vinyl, another is talking about doing it - crazy! Maybe that's the new thing? Kids around here are friggin' nuts for vinyl ... go figure.
The big boys may be down but I would not count them out just yet. They may look different when they get back up ... but they will get up.
Mid to late '70s (disco to punk) was similar - sales way down/big cos. going out of biz/indies taking their place.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 18 2013, 05:39 PM


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TreyDeschamp
post Feb 18 2013, 05:47 PM
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I still buy music.

I used to use Frostwire but then my Dad made a great point to me buy saying, "If you like it, why not support the artist?"

Ever since then I've bought all of my music.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 18 2013, 08:42 PM
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Bingo smile.gif That's what the big infographic is on about. People are not buying music anymore anywhere near what they used to so the entire industry has had to shrink a bit and adapt. Notice the declining (down and to the right) trend on that infogaphic and that's for top 10 records, the numbers for artists in the middle and below are far worse. So it's important to see that the biz has changed forever, and Music is a "Loss Leader" for the things that can actually produce revenue, like Live shows, Merchandise, endorsements, licensing songs, etc. smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 18 2013, 03:41 AM) *
Interesting indeed Todd, but, people are still a bit reluctant in buying music. For instance, in Romania, everyone asks: 'Hey, is this album on torrents yet? Because I want it!' it's not 'Hey, is this album out yet? Because I WANT TO BUY IT' smile.gif



The vinyl market is a scant fraction of total sales, so that's just a blip. Nothing more sadly sad.gif The disco/punk transition and indie labels (before they all got bought up by the majors) was more of a lateral to down shift, where as what we are seeing now is a complete rewrite of the rules now that the "distribution" is, in essence, FREE. Thus, Value added Plastic (CDs) are not longer the big money maker the Labels used to live on. They have started focusing on fewer and fewer artists near the top of the food chain in terms of sales, and reduce A&R, and other staff, as well as tour support, artist development etc. Currently what's left of the major labels lose money every quarter as the industry is still contracting. Thus, the Change/Opportunity idea smile.gif


Todd


QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 18 2013, 11:26 AM) *
While I completely agree that the industry is in extreme flux I would caution against putting too much stock in those numbers.
Why? - Because when the record biz was making cash hand over fist they and all the press around the them inflated the numbers (and were accused of such - generally by the artists themselves when said artist sued for their profits).
Example: rec cos counted 'shipped' not sold units and then subtracted the 'returns' from the artists cut.
So now it's like everybody hates the trad record co. so we kick them when they're down.
In my neighborhood there are 3 stores that ONLY sell vinyl. One of the artists I regularly work for just released a new record on vinyl, another is talking about doing it - crazy! Maybe that's the new thing? Kids around here are friggin' nuts for vinyl ... go figure.
The big boys may be down but I would not count them out just yet. They may look different when they get back up ... but they will get up.
Mid to late '70s (disco to punk) was similar - sales way down/big cos. going out of biz/indies taking their place.




Sadly, despite the fact that "we" buy all our music, 90 percent of people don't, since any title is free for download in a forum somewhere. So even if all us musicians are supporting artists, it's mostly a gesture at that point.


QUOTE (BTrian @ Feb 18 2013, 05:05 AM) *
I still buy CDs, but also downloaded some stuff that had no physical copy available (or only for ridiculous prices)

still prefer CDs for artwork and stuff you just don't get the same with only download,
some Bands are also still quite creative when it comes to CDs (remember one band that put some self made black&white photography thing in, the album booklet had like 50 empty pages with a target painted on the front with lead shot falling down when opening cause they shot every single booklet with a shotgun biggrin.gif )

would also go for vinyl if I could afford it.

Though I still listen to most of my music in digital form. Just so much easier to manage big music libraries and it's not like you need to use compressed formats anymore cause hard drives and stuff are quite affordable these days.

and what is "adult" music huh.gif



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klasaine
post Feb 18 2013, 11:38 PM
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I know vinyl is a blip ... but it's also one part of the 'change/adaptation' you're talking about.
The general public doesn't wanna pay for CDs or downloads - whatever, that's old news. But more and more seem to be willing to pay for something that they deem more tangibly valuable ... an actual vinyl record with art and packaging is one of those things (and I'm sure there are others and I just don't know what they are). If the biz model was still the same as it was up until say 1992 that product vs.$$$ would amount to nothing at all consequential. But, in the new economy of making and (hopefully) selling music, the true independent artist (i.e., a guy/gal selling product literally out of the trunk of his/her car) has considerably little overhead compared to the old days. They're not paying for the big bad rec. co. machine (keep in mind I actually liked a lot about the big machine and semi-bemoan it's possible death - but that's another thread).
*If you have something people like ... and you don't immediately make it all ubiquitously available for free you can 'sell' it. I know this this from experience.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 19 2013, 04:03 AM


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Rammikin
post Feb 19 2013, 04:01 AM
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Just one question. What's a Delcine? smile.gif

The point is well-taken though. A recent Bob Lefsetz blog entry made the point that albums are hopelessly archaic since nobody listens to music that way anymore, and that it's better to release individual songs.



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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 19 2013, 08:35 AM
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Well, actual music as a product on its own, without the packaging and merch and everything, is the actual motor that drives people to go to shows, buy merch, endorsements, licensing songs or consumable products bearing the name of a band. Just imagine that if this:



...would be real, and Phil Anselmo would advertize for it, tons of Pantera fans would try it AT LEAST once smile.gif


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Slavenko Erazer
post Feb 19 2013, 09:26 AM
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BIZ SUCKS, HEavy MEtal Is the Way of Life!!! cool.gif
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Ben Higgins
post Feb 19 2013, 10:18 AM
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Ever since I released The Reckoning album on itunes I've had a few people say they would prefer cd's.. I know Slav and Hungry and a few others have expressed this. In an ideal world I also would love to release on cd but unfortunately I can't guarantee that I would sell them just because a handful of people have expressed their preference. I would be left with a lot of plastic in my house doing nothing sad.gif But I do totally understand and agree with their viewpoint. Cd's and especially vinyl, feel like so much more. The art... the lyrics.. everything.

But.. it's just the way it is. I believe that we can utilise our own websites and still make the music/art experience work. There's 1 truth that I have decided is constant throughout any technological advances. No matter what the change in technology, people still love to take in information visually - by watching something or looking at something. Only the method of delivering the information changes.. but the act of taking in info visually is something that people still want.


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Slavenko Erazer
post Feb 19 2013, 01:39 PM
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Here in Serbia, two older metal brothers formed a record labe just to help out younger metal acts in Serbia by releasing their debut albums on cds. They do everything for free , and i think they didn't rejected any band ever since. They also making some kind of tour in this part of Europe called "invasion from the East" , and they're touring from town to town, to promote metal..They don't make any profit with it, they're just crazy about metal and willing to prevent this almost dead scene from it's doomsday..

So i cincerelly don't think nobody could buy cds, cos after all i sell cds and vinyls world-wide biggrin.gif

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Ben Higgins
post Feb 19 2013, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Feb 19 2013, 12:39 PM) *
Here in Serbia, two older metal brothers formed a record labe just to help out younger metal acts in Serbia by releasing their debut albums on cds. They do everything for free , and i think they didn't rejected any band ever since. They also making some kind of tour in this part of Europe called "invasion from the East" , and they're touring from town to town, to promote metal..They don't make any profit with it, they're just crazy about metal and willing to prevent this almost dead scene from it's doomsday..

So i cincerelly don't think nobody could buy cds, cos after all i sell cds and vinyls world-wide biggrin.gif


That's really cool to hear !! smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 19 2013, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Feb 19 2013, 09:18 AM) *
Ever since I released The Reckoning album on itunes I've had a few people say they would prefer cd's.. I know Slav and Hungry and a few others have expressed this. In an ideal world I also would love to release on cd but unfortunately I can't guarantee that I would sell them just because a handful of people have expressed their preference. I would be left with a lot of plastic in my house doing nothing sad.gif But I do totally understand and agree with their viewpoint. Cd's and especially vinyl, feel like so much more. The art... the lyrics.. everything.

But.. it's just the way it is. I believe that we can utilise our own websites and still make the music/art experience work. There's 1 truth that I have decided is constant throughout any technological advances. No matter what the change in technology, people still love to take in information visually - by watching something or looking at something. Only the method of delivering the information changes.. but the act of taking in info visually is something that people still want.


Indeed mate! That's why we also did the 'Seeds' EP on a CD support. I have no clue how long it will take to sell 300 copies, but I love the look on the face of each dude/ girl that opens it and feels happy about it smile.gif It's worth all the money!


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klasaine
post Feb 19 2013, 04:58 PM
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I've noticed it also depends on the type of shows you play.
I play with a Celtic rock band that pretty much only plays 'themed', seasonal festivals - highland games, scottish festivals, occasionally a Ren Faire. At all these events we set up a table/tent with merch ... t-shirts and CDs. We tried the download cards. We tried the flash drives (I personally really like the flash drive thing). General comment was "don't you have CDs?"

Gigs I do in town (L.A.) with the more 'arty' projects the folks are more into a download card/code (and vinyl, lol!)
Pay the 'cover' charge get a free download code. Buy the vinyl also get free download card - with access to a few cuts not on the released product, etc.
It's all the same promo/loss leader stuff record companies do/did only with current tech and on a smaller scale.

*The veneer looks different, the delivery system is different but the basic model really hasn't changed much since the 1920s. Radio, juke boxes, TV and now the internet - they advertise music for free or very cheap and then hope you'll buy it. The only real difference is that now it's fairly easy to DIY - you still have to have a good song and it's still a ton of work and full time job.




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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 20 2013, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 19 2013, 03:58 PM) *
I've noticed it also depends on the type of shows you play.
I play with a Celtic rock band that pretty much only plays 'themed', seasonal festivals - highland games, scottish festivals, occasionally a Ren Faire. At all these events we set up a table/tent with merch ... t-shirts and CDs. We tried the download cards. We tried the flash drives (I personally really like the flash drive thing). General comment was "don't you have CDs?"

Gigs I do in town (L.A.) with the more 'arty' projects the folks are more into a download card/code (and vinyl, lol!)
Pay the 'cover' charge get a free download code. Buy the vinyl also get free download card - with access to a few cuts not on the released product, etc.
It's all the same promo/loss leader stuff record companies do/did only with current tech and on a smaller scale.

*The veneer looks different, the delivery system is different but the basic model really hasn't changed much since the 1920s. Radio, juke boxes, TV and now the internet - they advertise music for free or very cheap and then hope you'll buy it. The only real difference is that now it's fairly easy to DIY - you still have to have a good song and it's still a ton of work and full time job.


Very well said Ken - I was having this discussion with my dad yesterday and he was asking me: 'How come all those people that have a million views on youtube are not famous musicians in real life and can't make a living out of gigging and being on TV?' and I told him that they didn't actually invent anything new in music or came up with groundbreaking song writing that would amass so many fans in a concert hall that they could beat a Rihanna gig (there are exceptions of course, but there are a lot of other factors on the road to superstardom as well).

Just being extra technical and having a cool video on youtube that has a few million views won't turn you rich overnight but it can open up a lot of doors I think smile.gif


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