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> Spiff Vid On Mastering
Todd Simpson
post Feb 28 2013, 05:52 PM
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Izotope (The guys who make the Ozone Plugin) released a spiff vid featuring some pro talk/tips on Mastering and Listening.

Anybody using Ozone? How about the new version? I've found the "INSIGHT" loudness analyzer feature of the new pro version to be pretty handy smile.gif



This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 28 2013, 06:40 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 28 2013, 06:42 PM
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I found a vid specifically about "INSIGHT" as well.


HAVE YOU ASKED YOURSELF...
"Why isn't my mix as loud/punchy/big as tracks by my favorite bands?"

Well, there are numerous factors, really to many to count. But for the home recordist, who would like to have their final mixes be able to compete with the tracks before and after on a given playlist, welcome to the spiff world of IZOTOPE INSIGHT.



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Mar 1 2013, 12:49 PM
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To some extent the best feature is that it complies with the recent EBU ITU-R BS1770 standard for loudness metereing. As far as I can see there's nothing here that iis ground breaking and not available elsewhere. To be honest £350 seems expensive to me.

I know you're not suggesting this and understand the issues Todd but you need much more than spectrum matching to make a mix sound close to a commercial track.

Personally, ITU-R notwithstanding, I prefer to use a calibrated monitoring chain. You should mix and master with your ears not your eyes so listen rather than spend your time watching meters.


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 2 2013, 09:58 AM
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Many of our fellow GMCers have yet to purchase their first set of actual "Monitors", much less buy and learn to calibrate their monitoring chain. Folks are starting out using what is at hand, a laptop, earbuds, etc. I was mostly posting for folks starting out in home recording, it's for those folks I think this plugin is blessing. For me as well smile.gif

Of course you are correct in that to actually compete sonically with a real mix, it's going to take much more than a plugin. I was mostly talking about being able to quickly, easily get a bedroom mix to hit harder and sound better even if only to share with friends on soundcloud and such. Not for using on tracks planned for release/promotion, but instead as a quick and dirty fix for song ideas. It can really help a quickie mix before it goes up for quick feedback prior to the next set of changes smile.gif

The EZ MIX from TOONTRACK does something similar, but I know products like that make many a Pro Engineer want to scream EGAD!!! UGGH!!! But again, for quick and dirty work @ Home I've seen it work wonders! I have yet to try it myself though, as I've been using OZONE smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Mar 1 2013, 06:49 AM) *
To some extent the best feature is that it complies with the recent EBU ITU-R BS1770 standard for loudness metereing. As far as I can see there's nothing here that iis ground breaking and not available elsewhere. To be honest £350 seems expensive to me.

I know you're not suggesting this and understand the issues Todd but you need much more than spectrum matching to make a mix sound close to a commercial track.

Personally, ITU-R notwithstanding, I prefer to use a calibrated monitoring chain. You should mix and master with your ears not your eyes so listen rather than spend your time watching meters.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 2 2013, 10:05 AM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Mar 2 2013, 11:38 AM
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I think my reticence is more the price Todd smile.gif.

There are plenty of software meters that can display FFT/Waterfall etc along with the more usual peak/rms bars. The prices vary from free to the £350 here, albeit that the one here is a suite of meters whilst the free/cheap ones usually consist of only one or two types. So about the only benefit for the suite I can see is that it consists of a number of different types of meters and that it is compliant with the recent EBU ITU-R standard. You can save a lot of money if you're willing to spend a bit of time finding the meters individually.

About the only meter that can be hard to find is an oversamplng reconstruction meter so to save people a search here's one from SSL and it's free.

If you're trying to do a 'quick and dirty' mix that simulates some reference you might want to look at har-bal here . By no means perfect/good enough for commercial release but beginners may find it helps to identify and understand full range spectra of recordings.


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

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We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Rammikin
post Mar 2 2013, 04:44 PM
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Ozone is getting to be downright indispensable. I even use it for building my own Impulse Responses for cabinet emulation from guitar recordings.


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 28 2013, 04:52 PM) *
Anybody using Ozone? How about the new version? I've found the "INSIGHT" loudness analyzer feature of the new pro version to be pretty handy smile.gif



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Rammikin
post Mar 2 2013, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Mar 1 2013, 11:49 AM) *
You should mix and master with your ears not your eyes so listen rather than spend your time watching meters.


That's the conventional wisdom, but we live in exciting times that challenge the conventional wisdom. IMHO, I think an alternative way to say it is: "You should mix and master with all the information you can get.". What you hear is obviously most important, but there is a lot of valuable visual information you can get using today's technology that can also be useful when mixing and mastering.

Of course, if you're lucky enough to be working on a commercial recording, probably the most valuable resource you can and should employ is a skilled professional engineer. Although, as Todd mentions, we students here at GMC are probably mostly only aspiring musicians who aren't making commercial recordings (yet!).


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 2 2013, 10:56 PM
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The price covers the full version of the plugin and the metering is just one little feature. So it's thrown in for free smile.gif Building all that ozone does up in other plugins of similar quality actually seems to cost wads more?

I may not have been clear on that. This is just an ancillary function of the big version of OZONE. It's a full featured suite of plugins that runs in a single interface. The metering is just another handy bit smile.gif



QUOTE (tonymiro @ Mar 2 2013, 05:38 AM) *
I think my reticence is more the price Todd smile.gif.

There are plenty of software meters that can display FFT/Waterfall etc along with the more usual peak/rms bars. The prices vary from free to the £350 here, albeit that the one here is a suite of meters whilst the free/cheap ones usually consist of only one or two types. So about the only benefit for the suite I can see is that it consists of a number of different types of meters and that it is compliant with the recent EBU ITU-R standard. You can save a lot of money if you're willing to spend a bit of time finding the meters individually.

About the only meter that can be hard to find is an oversamplng reconstruction meter so to save people a search here's one from SSL and it's free.

If you're trying to do a 'quick and dirty' mix that simulates some reference you might want to look at har-bal here . By no means perfect/good enough for commercial release but beginners may find it helps to identify and understand full range spectra of recordings.



I"m on the same page smile.gif I like being able to see whats going on as my speakers and listening room are FAR from perfect. So as I was going on about, this plugin can really help the home recordist with limited gear/time/budget smile.gif


QUOTE (Rammikin @ Mar 2 2013, 11:45 AM) *
That's the conventional wisdom, but we live in exciting times that challenge the conventional wisdom. IMHO, I think an alternative way to say it is: "You should mix and master with all the information you can get.". What you hear is obviously most important, but there is a lot of valuable visual information you can get using today's technology that can also be useful when mixing and mastering.

Of course, if you're lucky enough to be working on a commercial recording, probably the most valuable resource you can and should employ is a skilled professional engineer. Although, as Todd mentions, we students here at GMC are probably mostly only aspiring musicians who aren't making commercial recordings (yet!).



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Mar 3 2013, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Mar 2 2013, 04:45 PM) *
That's the conventional wisdom, but we live in exciting times that challenge the conventional wisdom. IMHO, I think an alternative way to say it is: "You should mix and master with all the information you can get.". What you hear is obviously most important, but there is a lot of valuable visual information you can get using today's technology that can also be useful when mixing and mastering.

...


Maybe its conventional wisdom Rammiken but it iis also supported by a lot of experience. Sure visual information can support what you hear but the problem is that too many people stop critically listening because they are too used to taking in visual information. For instance, we get distorted mixes sent to us to master a lot. The stock response when we tell the mix engineer that the audio is clipped and distorting, 'My meters don't show clipping.' (A lot of people use ppl meters that will not visually show the onset of clipping until it is far too late and the result is often clipped fast transients.) They spend their time watching meters rather than really critically and carefully listening. We recently mastered a project where the mix engineer had reversed the L and R channels. His response when we told him was again to say that it looked ok on his meters, when he listened he came back and said, 'Yes you're right I had the router set up wrong.'


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 8 2013, 12:57 AM
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Again some great points here smile.gif I have to agree that mixing should happen with the ears, but whats SOOOOO SPIFFFF about OZONE 5 is that is provides SOOOOOOO much Visual feedback that it really does help quite a bit to let you know if your hearing what you think you are hearing. Given that most Home Recordists are using far from perfect listening tools/rooms, having the Visual Feedback is CRUCIAL. When mixing in a bedroom, using earbuds or whatever speakers were cheap, having the visual feedback as an additional tool to "earballing it" is a God Send smile.gif

I think that's what RAMMIKIN is on about? If so I'd have to agree smile.gif


Todd
QUOTE (tonymiro @ Mar 3 2013, 06:33 AM) *
Maybe its conventional wisdom Rammiken but it iis also supported by a lot of experience. Sure visual information can support what you hear but the problem is that too many people stop critically listening because they are too used to taking in visual information. For instance, we get distorted mixes sent to us to master a lot. The stock response when we tell the mix engineer that the audio is clipped and distorting, 'My meters don't show clipping.' (A lot of people use ppl meters that will not visually show the onset of clipping until it is far too late and the result is often clipped fast transients.) They spend their time watching meters rather than really critically and carefully listening. We recently mastered a project where the mix engineer had reversed the L and R channels. His response when we told him was again to say that it looked ok on his meters, when he listened he came back and said, 'Yes you're right I had the router set up wrong.'



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