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> From Diatonic Scales To Music
timrobwall
post Mar 8 2013, 03:33 PM
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One of the eminent instructors here wrote somewhere "you can't let the scale patterns control your playing; you have to control the scale pattern." I've been spending considerable practice time trying to do that -- rehearsing major and minor scale patterns, bursts of 4, triplets, including working on connections up and down the neck, and then taking time to improvise with these tones. But I am having trouble making all this sound like what I consider good music - or smoothly incorporating it into my improvisation at gigs. Is this a normal part of the learning process? One of those things you just have to give time and patience to to let develop and fall into place? Or are there practice techniques that can help with this? Learning diatonic and modal riffs, for example (like most of us did with pentatonic scales when we started out)? Thanks for your perspectives.
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PosterBoy
post Mar 9 2013, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE (timrobwall @ Mar 8 2013, 02:33 PM) *
One of the eminent instructors here wrote somewhere "you can't let the scale patterns control your playing; you have to control the scale pattern." I've been spending considerable practice time trying to do that -- rehearsing major and minor scale patterns, bursts of 4, triplets, including working on connections up and down the neck, and then taking time to improvise with these tones. But I am having trouble making all this sound like what I consider good music - or smoothly incorporating it into my improvisation at gigs. Is this a normal part of the learning process? One of those things you just have to give time and patience to to let develop and fall into place? Or are there practice techniques that can help with this? Learning diatonic and modal riffs, for example (like most of us did with pentatonic scales when we started out)? Thanks for your perspectives.



I think to some extent it is part of the learning process.

When it comes to playing you need to use your ears and forget about your scale patterns etc, but trust your fingers will use them instinctively to play what you want.

Sometimes when we are practicing scales unintentionally become the goal rather than the music we actually want to create.

Are you practicing over chord sequences?


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zoom
post Mar 9 2013, 10:30 AM
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I'm sort of in the same boat but I see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Do you jam over chord progressions?
Pharsing takes time.
I had a teacher who would jam over a backing track for hours and his aim was to play somthing different every time.
Think change rhythm,arpeggios, slides, Octaves, sixth's, thirds, pedal notes, bends.
Listen and play what fits.
A mate said to me the other day about the one note that leaves you thinking wow that note was awesome.
Another thing is you can only play what is effortless live.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 9 2013, 01:06 PM
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Mate, I remember something that Richie Kotzen once said in regard to scales patterns or arpeggio shapes - he looked at them as ways to get from one phrase to another.

What you need to do here - in my opinion - is to get your ears well acquainted to the sound of a particular scale, especially against the chords that it goes well with.

Pick a backing track, put your guitar aside - in that way you won't be tempted to play shapes - and try to make up melodies using the notes in that scale using your voice. It might be tricky at first, because you will feel like 'oh man, I can't sing!!' It's not about singing smile.gif If you play an instrument, your ears are naturally more developed than the ears of a normal person, so as long as you can play an instrument and emulate a line which you know very well, it is just a matter of how you get it out - you can also use your voice or bagpipes if you so choose smile.gif

Try at and let's debate! smile.gif


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timrobwall
post Mar 9 2013, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 9 2013, 12:06 PM) *
Mate, I remember something that Richie Kotzen once said in regard to scales patterns or arpeggio shapes - he looked at them as ways to get from one phrase to another.

What you need to do here - in my opinion - is to get your ears well acquainted to the sound of a particular scale, especially against the chords that it goes well with.

Pick a backing track, put your guitar aside - in that way you won't be tempted to play shapes - and try to make up melodies using the notes in that scale using your voice. It might be tricky at first, because you will feel like 'oh man, I can't sing!!' It's not about singing smile.gif If you play an instrument, your ears are naturally more developed than the ears of a normal person, so as long as you can play an instrument and emulate a line which you know very well, it is just a matter of how you get it out - you can also use your voice or bagpipes if you so choose smile.gif

Try at and let's debate! smile.gif

That is a fantastic quote. I like the idea about singing, too. Will try it (it also helps identifying note intervals -- "I'm playing a fifth here which sounds really good.") I think there is a tendency, as you grow as a guitar player, maybe to ignore too much pentatonics, which when used sparingly to complement more diatonic-based improv can create some fresh phrasing, especially in blues-based rock styles. I think I remember Robin Ford saying that a lot of his improvisation draws from a REALLY thorough knowledge of pentatonic forms. Thanks.

QUOTE (zoom @ Mar 9 2013, 09:30 AM) *
I'm sort of in the same boat but I see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Do you jam over chord progressions?
Pharsing takes time.
I had a teacher who would jam over a backing track for hours and his aim was to play somthing different every time.
Think change rhythm,arpeggios, slides, Octaves, sixth's, thirds, pedal notes, bends.
Listen and play what fits.
A mate said to me the other day about the one note that leaves you thinking wow that note was awesome.
Another thing is you can only play what is effortless live.

All good stuff. Thanks!

QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Mar 9 2013, 08:49 AM) *
I think to some extent it is part of the learning process.

When it comes to playing you need to use your ears and forget about your scale patterns etc, but trust your fingers will use them instinctively to play what you want.

Sometimes when we are practicing scales unintentionally become the goal rather than the music we actually want to create.

Are you practicing over chord sequences?

"Scales unintentionally become the goal ..." Perfect. Also, I find myself a lot of time mechanically ripping through scales but what I'm really thinking about is something else -- work or the grocery store or whatever -- not focused practice. smile.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 9 2013, 04:04 PM
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Mate, I officially invite you to next week's video chat session in which we will have a backing track and use our voices to come up with nice melodies, lines and phrases smile.gif 8 PM London time wink.gif


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